The Stupid Lie called The Theory of Evolution

[Boss]

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.

How do you figure Spiritual Nature had no effect? Certainly, it had no effect on man who didn't exist... but neither did Jupiter. How can you say the thing that created physical nature, chemistry, physics, the 40-something cosmological constants which make up a finely-tuned universe enabling life... didn't have an effect?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.

How do you figure Spiritual Nature had no effect? Certainly, it had no effect on man who didn't exist... but neither did Jupiter. How can you say the thing that created physical nature, chemistry, physics, the 40-something cosmological constants which make up a finely-tuned universe enabling life... didn't have an effect?

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

 

[Boss]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

Obviously we can't know for sure, but I don't think spirituality can exist without man, and I don't think man created spirituality. It's a chicken or an egg dilemma. Christians believe in the father, son and Holy Ghost, they are all different, but with the same characteristics. Jesus can't exist without God/ Holy Spirit, but God/ Holy Spirit is not God without Jesus, at least in the Christian view as I understand it.

 

[sealybobo]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

Ah, Jupiter, haven't we already agreed that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are different? Why do you apply the same reasoning that if Jupiter was there before man saw it, spirituality was here before man. I reject your example, it's apple and oranges. I am not saying your point is without merit, just hate the example. Spirituality could have been here before man, but since it is not physical, like Jupiter, it would have on effect without a spiritual creature i.e. Man. Jupiter was still exerting whatever influence it does on our solar system before it was seen.

I don't like "man invented spirituality", so we agree on that. I am just supposing, even if spirituality existed before man, it didn't matter, because it had no influence or effect before man.

Good point. Spirituality had nothing to do before us. Without us God is nothing. Without us, who cares?

 

[sealybobo]

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.

How do you figure Spiritual Nature had no effect? Certainly, it had no effect on man who didn't exist... but neither did Jupiter. How can you say the thing that created physical nature, chemistry, physics, the 40-something cosmological constants which make up a finely-tuned universe enabling life... didn't have an effect?

Were dinosaurs spiritual? 13 billion years the spirit world did fine without you and in the last 100,000 years it decided to create spiritual beasts the cosmos had never seen before? This is getting silly. Never mind.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

Ah, Jupiter, haven't we already agreed that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are different? Why do you apply the same reasoning that if Jupiter was there before man saw it, spirituality was here before man. I reject your example, it's apple and oranges. I am not saying your point is without merit, just hate the example. Spirituality could have been here before man, but since it is not physical, like Jupiter, it would have on effect without a spiritual creature i.e. Man. Jupiter was still exerting whatever influence it does on our solar system before it was seen.

I don't like "man invented spirituality", so we agree on that. I am just supposing, even if spirituality existed before man, it didn't matter, because it had no influence or effect before man.

Good point. Spirituality had nothing to do before us. Without us God is nothing. Without us, who cares?

I concur, Without man to experience spirituality it essentially is non-existence.

 

[SixFoot]

 

[Boss]

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.

How do you figure Spiritual Nature had no effect? Certainly, it had no effect on man who didn't exist... but neither did Jupiter. How can you say the thing that created physical nature, chemistry, physics, the 40-something cosmological constants which make up a finely-tuned universe enabling life... didn't have an effect?

Were dinosaurs spiritual? 13 billion years the spirit world did fine without you and in the last 100,000 years it decided to create spiritual beasts the cosmos had never seen before? This is getting silly. Never mind.

Nope... Dinosaurs do not appear to have been spiritual. Nor have been any of the preceding creatures before man or any creatures after man. Apparently, Spiritual Nature was compelled to make US aware of it. Don't ask me why... maybe it thought we were better qualified than the monkeys? Then I look at you, and I wonder if it thought that at all?

 

[Boss]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

Obviously we can't know for sure, but I don't think spirituality can exist without man, and I don't think man created spirituality. It's a chicken or an egg dilemma. Christians believe in the father, son and Holy Ghost, they are all different, but with the same characteristics. Jesus can't exist without God/ Holy Spirit, but God/ Holy Spirit is not God without Jesus, at least in the Christian view as I understand it.

Again... The paradox of creation... Physical nature cannot create itself. Even the chicken or egg dilemma has a truth... even if we don't know it. This idea that something doesn't exist because we don't use it or we're not yet around to use it... well, that's based on human concept of time. You see silly boob stumbling around this.... how come it took billions of years? But here's the thing.... TIME is a human element.... it means nothing to Spiritual Nature. It means everything to us... physics can't do anything without time. So trying to rationalize Spiritual Nature in context of time is totally pointless.

 

[abu afak]

God made bodies of all animals and man based on the same Master-plan.

There is NO evidence of any god. Zero.

All of them eat, digest, egest, respire, copulate, hear, see, taste, etc. So all of them have similar organs to perform these functions. He also graded animals and man according to the complexity of functions He gave them. So amoeba comes near the beginning, fishes and frogs later, followed by cats, dogs, tigers, lions and finally by Man.

The fact we all are similar/just slightly more evolved, is evidence we Have Evolved.
If man was based on different material (than DNA), or had totally distinct organs, THAT WOULD speak to god/immaculate creation and would have no Natural explanation.
Similar, just slightly different, creatures is what Evo is!
Not to mention, WE Have USELESS Anatomical Remnants of our ancestors.
(like the Coccyx/former Tail)

The placement of animals in the right order is the only "proof" that Evolutionists are offering to the world and that is not a proof at all.[/B] There are no proofs of evolution in the entire history of mankind. And none even before his history, even if we suppose that the earth and its inhabitants were made before the history of man.

What is the 'Right Order'?
(especially after all the Failed precursor Homo Species that lead to us)
Any group of things could be placed in order of complexity. It doesn't prove intelligent design.

What a fallacious jerk you are Pilgrim
`

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

Obviously we can't know for sure, but I don't think spirituality can exist without man, and I don't think man created spirituality. It's a chicken or an egg dilemma. Christians believe in the father, son and Holy Ghost, they are all different, but with the same characteristics. Jesus can't exist without God/ Holy Spirit, but God/ Holy Spirit is not God without Jesus, at least in the Christian view as I understand it.

Again... The paradox of creation... Physical nature cannot create itself. Even the chicken or egg dilemma has a truth... even if we don't know it. This idea that something doesn't exist because we don't use it or we're not yet around to use it... well, that's based on human concept of time. You see silly boob stumbling around this.... how come it took billions of years? But here's the thing.... TIME is a human element.... it means nothing to Spiritual Nature. It means everything to us... physics can't do anything without time. So trying to rationalize Spiritual Nature in context of time is totally pointless.

Spiritual nature cannot exist without physical nature. If there is no air, you can't have wind.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.

How do you figure Spiritual Nature had no effect? Certainly, it had no effect on man who didn't exist... but neither did Jupiter. How can you say the thing that created physical nature, chemistry, physics, the 40-something cosmological constants which make up a finely-tuned universe enabling life... didn't have an effect?

Were dinosaurs spiritual? 13 billion years the spirit world did fine without you and in the last 100,000 years it decided to create spiritual beasts the cosmos had never seen before? This is getting silly. Never mind.

Nope... Dinosaurs do not appear to have been spiritual. Nor have been any of the preceding creatures before man or any creatures after man. Apparently, Spiritual Nature was compelled to make US aware of it. Don't ask me why... maybe it thought we were better qualified than the monkeys? Then I look at you, and I wonder if it thought that at all?

There is the dilemma. You assume that spiritual nature made us aware of it, but I think it is just as likely that there was no spiritual nature until it was born from man, a collective consciousness of man if you will.

 

[Boss]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

Obviously we can't know for sure, but I don't think spirituality can exist without man, and I don't think man created spirituality. It's a chicken or an egg dilemma. Christians believe in the father, son and Holy Ghost, they are all different, but with the same characteristics. Jesus can't exist without God/ Holy Spirit, but God/ Holy Spirit is not God without Jesus, at least in the Christian view as I understand it.

Again... The paradox of creation... Physical nature cannot create itself. Even the chicken or egg dilemma has a truth... even if we don't know it. This idea that something doesn't exist because we don't use it or we're not yet around to use it... well, that's based on human concept of time. You see silly boob stumbling around this.... how come it took billions of years? But here's the thing.... TIME is a human element.... it means nothing to Spiritual Nature. It means everything to us... physics can't do anything without time. So trying to rationalize Spiritual Nature in context of time is totally pointless.

Spiritual nature cannot exist without physical nature. If there is no air, you can't have wind.

Can you provide any evidence that Spiritual Nature requires physical nature in order to exist?

And for the record... Yes, you CAN have wind with no air.... Solar winds.

 

[Boss]

There is the dilemma. You assume that spiritual nature made us aware of it, but I think it is just as likely that there was no spiritual nature until it was born from man, a collective consciousness of man if you will.

Then you believe man invented spirituality... contradicting what you stated earlier.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Your assuming that spirit preceded man, I am offering that it didn't, or if it did it was essentially dormant or non-existent because it was not recognized or practiced/utilized, etc. If you own a car but there is no gas, owning the car is immaterial. It sits in the garage with no effect.

Well I believe Spiritual Nature DID precede man. It preceded physical nature because it created physical nature. You're now sounding as if you think man invented spirituality. That's an argument I reject.

Obviously we can't know for sure, but I don't think spirituality can exist without man, and I don't think man created spirituality. It's a chicken or an egg dilemma. Christians believe in the father, son and Holy Ghost, they are all different, but with the same characteristics. Jesus can't exist without God/ Holy Spirit, but God/ Holy Spirit is not God without Jesus, at least in the Christian view as I understand it.

Again... The paradox of creation... Physical nature cannot create itself. Even the chicken or egg dilemma has a truth... even if we don't know it. This idea that something doesn't exist because we don't use it or we're not yet around to use it... well, that's based on human concept of time. You see silly boob stumbling around this.... how come it took billions of years? But here's the thing.... TIME is a human element.... it means nothing to Spiritual Nature. It means everything to us... physics can't do anything without time. So trying to rationalize Spiritual Nature in context of time is totally pointless.

Spiritual nature cannot exist without physical nature. If there is no air, you can't have wind.

Can you provide any evidence that Spiritual Nature requires physical nature in order to exist?

And for the record... Yes, you CAN have wind with no air.... Solar winds.

Whoa, your train just jumped the track, "provide evidence that spiritual natural requires physical nature to exist". I can provide as much as you can provide that spiritual nature exist without man. It's a philosophical discussion, and you play the burden of proof card?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

There is the dilemma. You assume that spiritual nature made us aware of it, but I think it is just as likely that there was no spiritual nature until it was born from man, a collective consciousness of man if you will.

Then you believe man invented spirituality... contradicting what you stated earlier.

I never said "invented", as if man sat down and designed and constructed it. Those are your words. Did your mother invent you? I am suggesting that it occurred because of the nature of man.

 

[Boss]

I never said "invented", as if man sat down and designed and constructed it. Those are your words. Did your mother invent you? I am suggesting that it occurred because of the nature of man.

Then what do you think created the universe, physical nature, matter, energy and time?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I never said "invented", as if man sat down and designed and constructed it. Those are your words. Did your mother invent you? I am suggesting that it occurred because of the nature of man.

Then what do you think created the universe, physical nature, matter, energy and time?

Hey, that's what you and I are trying to figure out, it's a question with no answer, IMO.

 

[Boss]

Hey, that's what you and I are trying to figure out, it's a question with no answer, IMO.

Well... YOU haven't figured it out. I think it was Spiritual Nature.