The Stupid Lie called The Theory of Evolution

[HUGGY]

Why did you not answer mine? You believe in something that does not exist.

Depends on what you mean by "exist" ... you won't answer my question, so I can't tell you.

Perhaps dictionary.com would be of some help.

Or perhaps you could answer my question? The dictionary doesn't tell me what your context of "exist" means when referring to something not physical. You'll have to explain that to me before I can tell you if I believe in something that doesn't "exist". If you just want to be a hard head and stubbornly refuse to answer, we're at a stalemate here.

You see... I certainly think Spiritual Nature exists in a spiritual sense... a spiritual existence. BUT... You don't believe in Spiritual Nature, therefore, you can't believe in spiritual existence. For you, the only objective reality is physical and physical existence. If the spiritual existed physically, it would cease to be spiritual.... by definition.

I believe in a spiritual existence, and it took me years to logically get there, but I still could be wrong. I accept spiritualality mainly because the history of man is rife with the description of it, and it seems very unlikely that people from all different backgrounds and experiences would all sense a higher power, even in isolation from others. How could Man have a prevalent feeling if there were no cause. But I also think that most "religious" people use this spirituality to justify things that are unjust or untrue.

We are all born atheists and are told stories about God at a very young age.

There are lots of reasons we came up with God. Have you seen The Cosmos series? They try to explain God is our ignorant fear of the unknown. What happens when we die? How did we get here? Wishful thinking. Lots of benefits to believing. And on top of all that we have religions like Mohammad moses Zeus Joseph Smith Mary Peter Paul Jesus. Either some of them are lying or all of them are. Either way we see how gullible people can be.

Today in the west more people than not believe in evolution. In Turkey most people believe in creation

Turkeys deny the truth behind Thanks Giving! Consequently turkeys believe in anything you or their ancestors told them.

 

[Hollie]

I can't deny any of that. But I am not as willing as you to accept that a spiritual nature created man as he exist today, and also created man only after creating 1000s of other living forms, some of which came and went prior to man. There is a definite order to nature, even if we don't see it or as yet understand it.

As for the ultimate beginning - it really doesn't matter, because I think it is impossible to ever know. I can't reject that the spirit has always existed, but was not apparent until a thinking, rational being existed to express it, namely man. Nor can I reject that it is the fact that man is a thinking, feeling, rational, emotional creature which collectively created the spirit. It's impossible to prove or disprove either.

But again, we can go back to the logical paradox... Physical nature cannot create itself. Physical nature does exist and it's not eternal, so it must have been created by something and it has to be something outside of physical existence. Life also exists and even the most ardent Evolutionist Atheist doesn't believe life has eternally existed. They believe physical nature created life but that simply means Spiritual Nature created life indirectly through physical nature. If Spiritual Nature created physical nature and all the parameters in physical nature which support life and make it possible, then Spiritual Nature created life.

And of course Spiritual Nature did not create man as he is today. We can look back just a hundred years or so and see a remarkable difference in man from then until now... go back 1,000 years.... even more different was man... 10,000 years... man was nothing like he is today. My grandfather could lift 75 lb. bales of hay over his head and toss them in the barn loft all day long... if I tried that it would kill me. He did it until he was 80 years old. In just a couple of generations we've become weaker and wiser. So yes... man HAS evolved. That doesn't mean we share a common ancestor with a bale of hay. That idea is ludicrous and doesn't have any basis in Science. That is a conjecture, a speculation... mostly promoted by people who reject Spiritual Nature and seek to disprove God through the exploitation of Science.

For all the hard-sell thumping you do for your new fangled religion of magical spirit realms, don't you find it concerning that Benny Hinn gets converts and you don't?

 

[sealybobo]

We used to think God poofed adults into existence. Everyone believed that a God must have poofed adult animals into existing. No other possible explanation. Then one day evolution came along and squashed creationism which has zero evidence.

So you go with the bad theory and I'll go with science.

If you don't believe in macroevolution then you believe creationism. We have evidence you have none

Well the problem is, Evolution doesn't apply to origin. Evolution can only apply to something that is already here. So Evolution, even if you could prove it 100% just as you've theorized it... still doesn't explain origin. And I hate to break it to you like this, but regardless of WHAT you believe, you believe in "poofing into existence" ...that's unavoidable. The question is only a matter of HOW it poofed into existence... random chance? a creator god? spiritual nature? We don't know. You dance around like a little moron, claiming we DO know... then, we don't know for sure, but then.. we really do know.,,,wait... no, not for sure... but still, we know and we're sure... well... pretty sure. ....Poofing is poofing to me.

And no... you have no evidence proving macro-evolution, if you did, you'd be able to produce it instead of coming here armed with your propaganda links from atheists who hate religious people.

I showed you like 29 detailed reasons.

They theorize a few scientific ways life may have started. We know we are made of star stuff. So it all goes back to the big bang. What started it? We don't know. You claim to think you know. Ya dont

 

[sealybobo]

Depends on what you mean by "exist" ... you won't answer my question, so I can't tell you.

Perhaps dictionary.com would be of some help.

Or perhaps you could answer my question? The dictionary doesn't tell me what your context of "exist" means when referring to something not physical. You'll have to explain that to me before I can tell you if I believe in something that doesn't "exist". If you just want to be a hard head and stubbornly refuse to answer, we're at a stalemate here.

You see... I certainly think Spiritual Nature exists in a spiritual sense... a spiritual existence. BUT... You don't believe in Spiritual Nature, therefore, you can't believe in spiritual existence. For you, the only objective reality is physical and physical existence. If the spiritual existed physically, it would cease to be spiritual.... by definition.

I believe in a spiritual existence, and it took me years to logically get there, but I still could be wrong. I accept spiritualality mainly because the history of man is rife with the description of it, and it seems very unlikely that people from all different backgrounds and experiences would all sense a higher power, even in isolation from others. How could Man have a prevalent feeling if there were no cause. But I also think that most "religious" people use this spirituality to justify things that are unjust or untrue.

We are all born atheists and are told stories about God at a very young age.

There are lots of reasons we came up with God. Have you seen The Cosmos series? They try to explain God is our ignorant fear of the unknown. What happens when we die? How did we get here? Wishful thinking. Lots of benefits to believing. And on top of all that we have religions like Mohammad moses Zeus Joseph Smith Mary Peter Paul Jesus. Either some of them are lying or all of them are. Either way we see how gullible people can be.

Today in the west more people than not believe in evolution. In Turkey most people believe in creation

Turkeys deny the truth behind Thanks Giving! Consequently turkeys believe in anything you or their ancestors told them.

This thread and the theists in it perfectly illustrate what's wrong with religion.

Tonight I went to a funeral. I see why we have religion but it's so not necessary. It's insane actually. Better to celebrate how lucky for her son and grand daughter she lived. She had 1 child. Think about how many children she didn't have. I feel bad for ANYONE who isn't born and never will be. Somewhere in Arkansas a guy just pulled out and that person will never be born. That girl who said no to me. The children we would have had will never be born. Poor things. She's a murderer of souls not having sex with me

 

[HUGGY]

Perhaps dictionary.com would be of some help.

Or perhaps you could answer my question? The dictionary doesn't tell me what your context of "exist" means when referring to something not physical. You'll have to explain that to me before I can tell you if I believe in something that doesn't "exist". If you just want to be a hard head and stubbornly refuse to answer, we're at a stalemate here.

You see... I certainly think Spiritual Nature exists in a spiritual sense... a spiritual existence. BUT... You don't believe in Spiritual Nature, therefore, you can't believe in spiritual existence. For you, the only objective reality is physical and physical existence. If the spiritual existed physically, it would cease to be spiritual.... by definition.

I believe in a spiritual existence, and it took me years to logically get there, but I still could be wrong. I accept spiritualality mainly because the history of man is rife with the description of it, and it seems very unlikely that people from all different backgrounds and experiences would all sense a higher power, even in isolation from others. How could Man have a prevalent feeling if there were no cause. But I also think that most "religious" people use this spirituality to justify things that are unjust or untrue.

We are all born atheists and are told stories about God at a very young age.

There are lots of reasons we came up with God. Have you seen The Cosmos series? They try to explain God is our ignorant fear of the unknown. What happens when we die? How did we get here? Wishful thinking. Lots of benefits to believing. And on top of all that we have religions like Mohammad moses Zeus Joseph Smith Mary Peter Paul Jesus. Either some of them are lying or all of them are. Either way we see how gullible people can be.

Today in the west more people than not believe in evolution. In Turkey most people believe in creation

Turkeys deny the truth behind Thanks Giving! Consequently turkeys believe in anything you or their ancestors told them.

This thread and the theists in it perfectly illustrate what's wrong with religion.

Tonight I went to a funeral. I see why we have religion but it's so not necessary. It's insane actually. Better to celebrate how lucky for her son and grand daughter she lived. She had 1 child. Think about how many children she didn't have. I feel bad for ANYONE who isn't born and never will be. Somewhere in Arkansas a guy just pulled out and that person will never be born. That girl who said no to me. The children we would have had will never be born. Poor things. She's a murderer of souls not having sex with me

Hopefully the dumb twat is fat, lives in a trailer full of garbage mostly Twinkie wrappers she is too lazy to pick up. She has a Chihuahua dressed up like a clown, She feeds it Little Smokies and the poor thing is this >< close to having a coronary. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[sealybobo]

You may accept some facts on evolution but you don't believe evolution is true. You believe creation. You can't believe both.

Well... YES, you can believe both... and you can also believe that we don't know the answer to this. I can accept micro-evolution because there is scientific evidence that supports it... I don't believe in macro-evolution because it's faith-based and has no scientific support to date. But againnnnn...... NO kind of evolution explains ORIGIN!

To put this in simple terms your small mind might comprehend... ORIGIN is the "poofing into existence" of LIFE!

and no, for the record, I do not believe anything poofed fully-formed adult anything into existence. It could have... that's a possibility... I won't dismiss it as such... but I don't believe it because there isn't anything to support that belief other than faith.

Let's take this slowly... I believe in Spiritual Nature because physical nature cannot create itself... it's a paradoxical argument. Spiritual Nature created physical nature and it did so in such a precision way that it enabled the parameters required for life which it also created. Now... IF Spiritual Nature can create physical nature, the parameters for life and life itself... it can create as many life forms as it wants to. If it can create one single living cell and that spawns all the trillions of life forms... it can also create the trillions of life forms. And honestly, if it can do all that, it can also create them fully-formed and adult if it wants to. I don't believe that's what happened, but it could have.

The most rational argument based on what we know would be to believe God planted one seed and that one seed turned into all the life we see today.

Because science believes all life started under water. After life crawled out it branched into birds reptiles amphibians and mammals.

Otherwise you must believe God poofed fully grown land walking animals onto planet earth. That's ridiculous scientifically. It's why you don't really believe evolution you just acknowledge bits and pieces

 

[sealybobo]

I understand better where you are coming from, I think. Do you believe it's possible, with further evidence, that macro-evolution can be proven? If not, why?

I think anything is possible with Science. BUT... that requires open minds which haven't adopted a conclusion. Once you've made up your mind and believe something is concluded, you've stopped practicing Science... you're now practicing Faith. So.... all these bold statements that "Evolution is a FACT!" are conclusions. These are closed-minded people who are not interested in Science anymore because they've drawn their own conclusion and are now practicing a faith in their conclusion.

No, it's just infuriating being doubted by skeptical creationalists

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I can't deny any of that. But I am not as willing as you to accept that a spiritual nature created man as he exist today, and also created man only after creating 1000s of other living forms, some of which came and went prior to man. There is a definite order to nature, even if we don't see it or as yet understand it.

As for the ultimate beginning - it really doesn't matter, because I think it is impossible to ever know. I can't reject that the spirit has always existed, but was not apparent until a thinking, rational being existed to express it, namely man. Nor can I reject that it is the fact that man is a thinking, feeling, rational, emotional creature which collectively created the spirit. It's impossible to prove or disprove either.

But again, we can go back to the logical paradox... Physical nature cannot create itself. Physical nature does exist and it's not eternal, so it must have been created by something and it has to be something outside of physical existence. Life also exists and even the most ardent Evolutionist Atheist doesn't believe life has eternally existed. They believe physical nature created life but that simply means Spiritual Nature created life indirectly through physical nature. If Spiritual Nature created physical nature and all the parameters in physical nature which support life and make it possible, then Spiritual Nature created life.

And of course Spiritual Nature did not create man as he is today. We can look back just a hundred years or so and see a remarkable difference in man from then until now... go back 1,000 years.... even more different was man... 10,000 years... man was nothing like he is today. My grandfather could lift 75 lb. bales of hay over his head and toss them in the barn loft all day long... if I tried that it would kill me. He did it until he was 80 years old. In just a couple of generations we've become weaker and wiser. So yes... man HAS evolved. That doesn't mean we share a common ancestor with a bale of hay. That idea is ludicrous and doesn't have any basis in Science. That is a conjecture, a speculation... mostly promoted by people who reject Spiritual Nature and seek to disprove God through the exploitation of Science.

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

 

[sealybobo]

I can't deny any of that. But I am not as willing as you to accept that a spiritual nature created man as he exist today, and also created man only after creating 1000s of other living forms, some of which came and went prior to man. There is a definite order to nature, even if we don't see it or as yet understand it.

As for the ultimate beginning - it really doesn't matter, because I think it is impossible to ever know. I can't reject that the spirit has always existed, but was not apparent until a thinking, rational being existed to express it, namely man. Nor can I reject that it is the fact that man is a thinking, feeling, rational, emotional creature which collectively created the spirit. It's impossible to prove or disprove either.

But again, we can go back to the logical paradox... Physical nature cannot create itself. Physical nature does exist and it's not eternal, so it must have been created by something and it has to be something outside of physical existence. Life also exists and even the most ardent Evolutionist Atheist doesn't believe life has eternally existed. They believe physical nature created life but that simply means Spiritual Nature created life indirectly through physical nature. If Spiritual Nature created physical nature and all the parameters in physical nature which support life and make it possible, then Spiritual Nature created life.

And of course Spiritual Nature did not create man as he is today. We can look back just a hundred years or so and see a remarkable difference in man from then until now... go back 1,000 years.... even more different was man... 10,000 years... man was nothing like he is today. My grandfather could lift 75 lb. bales of hay over his head and toss them in the barn loft all day long... if I tried that it would kill me. He did it until he was 80 years old. In just a couple of generations we've become weaker and wiser. So yes... man HAS evolved. That doesn't mean we share a common ancestor with a bale of hay. That idea is ludicrous and doesn't have any basis in Science. That is a conjecture, a speculation... mostly promoted by people who reject Spiritual Nature and seek to disprove God through the exploitation of Science.

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

And why go through 1 billion years of spiritualists trilobites and another billion years of spiritualists dinosaurs before our 5 million years of homo erectus years of man?

 

[Boss]

I showed you like 29 detailed reasons.

They theorize a few scientific ways life may have started. We know we are made of star stuff. So it all goes back to the big bang. What started it? We don't know. You claim to think you know. Ya dont

No, you linked me to a partisan activist organization website devoted to spreading anti-religious propaganda.

You're right when you say they theorize several ways... you're wrong when you claim these are facts or that other alternatives are invalid.

Of course we're made of star stuff... what did you expect we'd be made of? We're mostly carbon, which would not exist if something hadn't precision-tuned our universe to make carbon possible.

The Big Bang? I didn't think you believed in "poofing into existence"?

I didn't claim I knew anything, I merely pointed out the logical paradox that physical nature can't create itself.

 

[Boss]

The most rational argument based on what we know would be to believe God planted one seed and that one seed turned into all the life we see today.

Why do you believe that is a rational argument? If God created one seed, couldn't God have created 200 seeds... 5,000 seeds... trillions of seeds? What rationale limits the number of seeds God can create?

Because science believes all life started under water. After life crawled out it branched into birds reptiles amphibians and mammals.

There you go again, claiming Science "believes" things. HUMANS believe things, Science is the practice of asking questions about what is unknown. Science doesn't believe or disbelieve anything, it merely predicts the probability of possibility.

I understand the abiogenesis theories but fish don't morph into birds and reptiles, amphibians don't morph into mammals... their DNA prohibits that. In 1859, when this was first suggested, we didn't know about DNA. Had no idea about how mitochondria works or even amino acids and enzymes... those were still yet to be discovered.

Otherwise you must believe God poofed fully grown land walking animals onto planet earth. That's ridiculous scientifically. It's why you don't really believe evolution you just acknowledge bits and pieces

Again... Literally we get appeal to ridicule from you. I've told you twice now that I do not believe God poofed anything fully grown onto planet earth.... could've happened... may have happened... some people may believe it happened... I'm not convinced that happened. But we ALL believe in "poofing" to some extent... do we not???

Shall we go down the rather lengthy list of things previously said to be "ridiculous scientifically" again? You're kind of a hard head on this... you seem to think that Science in whatever it's present state, is infallible and can't be challenged. Science challenges itself all the time, that's kind of it's whole shtick. So unless you can come up with some scientific evidence to say something is impossible, you simply can't claim that it's impossible... Science doesn't back up your faith-based beliefs.

 

[Boss]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

 

[Searcher44]

God made bodies of all animals and man based on the same Master-plan. All of them eat, digest, egest, respire, copulate, hear, see, taste, etc. So all of them have similar organs to perform these functions. He also graded animals and man according to the complexity of functions He gave them. So amoeba comes near the beginning, fishes and frogs later, followed by cats, dogs, tigers, lions and finally by Man.

The Master-plan of God was obvious to anyone even before Charles Darwin. Charles Darwin made use of this Master-plan for devil's lying purpose. He studied the anatomy of each animal in detail and understood the gradation system of God. He placed all animals on the table starting with the lowest and ending with the highest, Man. And he lied that the higher animals "evolved" from the lower ones, although they were created just like that by God.

The placement of animals in the right order is the only "proof" that Evolutionists are offering to the world and that is not a proof at all. There are no proofs of evolution in the entire history of mankind. And none even before his history, even if we suppose that the earth and its inhabitants were made before the history of man.

God made bodies of all animals and man based on the same Master-plan. All of them eat, digest, egest, respire, copulate, hear, see, taste, etc. So all of them have similar organs to perform these functions. He also graded animals and man according to the complexity of functions He gave them. So amoeba comes near the beginning, fishes and frogs later, followed by cats, dogs, tigers, lions and finally by Man.

The Master-plan of God was obvious to anyone even before Charles Darwin. Charles Darwin made use of this Master-plan for devil's lying purpose. He studied the anatomy of each animal in detail and understood the gradation system of God. He placed all animals on the table starting with the lowest and ending with the highest, Man. And he lied that the higher animals "evolved" from the lower ones, although they were created just like that by God.

The placement of animals in the right order is the only "proof" that Evolutionists are offering to the world and that is not a proof at all. There are no proofs of evolution in the entire history of mankind. And none even before his history, even if we suppose that the earth and its inhabitants were made before the history of man.

Lots of scientists believe in God and accept the fact of Evolution, for example;

John Polkinghorne, Royal Society Member, theoretical physicist, theologian and Anglican priest says, "Science cannot tell theology how to construct a doctrine of creation, but you can't construct a doctrine of creation without taking account of the age of the universe and the evolutionary character of cosmic history."
He believes the two "theories" Evolution and intelligent design can co-exist. Isn't that a more rational way to explain all the evidence in the fossil record and in DNA analysis than to believe old myths retold in different cultures in different ways by Bronze Age Mesopotamians?

 

[NoNukes]

Why did you not answer mine? You believe in something that does not exist.

Depends on what you mean by "exist" ... you won't answer my question, so I can't tell you.

Perhaps dictionary.com would be of some help.

Or perhaps you could answer my question? The dictionary doesn't tell me what your context of "exist" means when referring to something not physical. You'll have to explain that to me before I can tell you if I believe in something that doesn't "exist". If you just want to be a hard head and stubbornly refuse to answer, we're at a stalemate here.

You see... I certainly think Spiritual Nature exists in a spiritual sense... a spiritual existence. BUT... You don't believe in Spiritual Nature, therefore, you can't believe in spiritual existence. For you, the only objective reality is physical and physical existence. If the spiritual existed physically, it would cease to be spiritual.... by definition.

I believe in a spiritual existence, and it took me years to logically get there, but I still could be wrong. I accept spiritualality mainly because the history of man is rife with the description of it, and it seems very unlikely that people from all different backgrounds and experiences would all sense a higher power, even in isolation from others. How could Man have a prevalent feeling if there were no cause. But I also think that most "religious" people use this spirituality to justify things that are unjust or untrue.

Spirituality can be obtained without a belief in a god.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

A theory in science isn't the same as an everyday theory of say, where your missing sock might have ended up.
Theories in science are researched carefully, with available evidence to help back up the claim.
Also, you're a bit behind the times, evolution stopped being a theory with the advent of Genetics and DNA.
For the moment, excluding the existence of DNA, one just has to look at the history of the horse and one can see its progression from fossil to present.
As for DNA, by studying DNA, we now know that Caucasians, are a mixture of Homo-Sapiens and a separate branch of hominid, Neanderthal. The beauty of DNA is....it absolutely DOES NOT LIE.
The belief in supernatural beings came about in primitive societies to try to allay peoples fears when they witnessed someone die and with the exception of the Hebrews at the time, those primitive societies had multiple deities, some still do, while others still have animist beliefs with spririts being a part of each animal life or even plants.
A subconscious fear of the "end" of life, and the denial that things are going to go on without our presence in the world, keep many people clinging to beliefs in afterlifes.
The flaw in the belief in a deity to me, is not only science, but that the so-called "perfect" deity, has all the flaws that humans have:
Anger.
Rage.
Homicidal tendencies.
Insecurity.
Since the supposed deity has all this, it is far more likely that he/she/it was the creation of man, not the other way around.
To believe in science is more rational than to believe in the supernatural.
The church declared Galileo a heretic for claiming that the sun didn't revolve around the earth and that we were not the center of the universe. Through science, we now know that it was as Galileo said and it took the church hundreds of years to finally agree with him. Science is great and while it doesn't have all the answers, it continues to have more and more, with less and less room for deities.

 

[Boss]

A theory in science isn't the same as an everyday theory of say, where your missing sock might have ended up.
Theories in science are researched carefully, with available evidence to help back up the claim.
Also, you're a bit behind the times, evolution stopped being a theory with the advent of Genetics and DNA.

This condescending rant eventually comes up in every thread of this nature. Yes, we all understand that scientific theories are different than common theories. The reason Science refers to them as "theories" is precisely because Science is not in the business of concluding facts. Science can only predict the probability of possibilities.... HUMANS draw conclusion.

So... IF you are a Scientist... Evolution IS still a theory... it always will be. If you've abandoned Science to practice your faith-based beliefs in your conclusions, then Evolution might not be a theory any longer.

For the moment, excluding the existence of DNA, one just has to look at the history of the horse and one can see its progression from fossil to present.
As for DNA, by studying DNA, we now know that Caucasians, are a mixture of Homo-Sapiens and a separate branch of hominid, Neanderthal. The beauty of DNA is....it absolutely DOES NOT LIE.

DNA might not lie but you don't seem to have a problem with it. No..... One CAN'T look at the history of a horse and see its progression from fossil to present. One can believe pictures presented by people who have theories about horses progressing and they can adopt a faith-based belief these theories are true.

And apparently, you've never studied DNA. That's the only conclusion I can draw from your rather embarrassing explanation of things. Caucasians are a mix of homo-sapien and neanderthals? What kind of fucked up Eugenics nonsense is THAT? Because it's certainly NOT Science and DNA doesn't support that.

Caucasians are a biological taxon belonging to the species homo-sapien. It is one of three such classifications of homo-sapiens. Neanderthals were not a different branch of hominid, they were part of the genus Homo.

DNA is actually a roadblock in your theory of common ancestry because the mitochondria in DNA is unable to produce, through mutation or any other means we know of, the needed amino acids and enzymes to make something different than it's designed to work with. DNA doesn't lie but it also cannot do what it cannot do. Similar DNA means absolutely nothing. You share 58% of your DNA with a banana... are you half banana? All life contains DNA and it's the blueprint for everything that particular life is or can ever be. It is flexible and versatile enough to sometimes allow adaptive changes in a species to spawn a new species, but that is essentially ALL we have scientific evidence to support at this time.

The belief in supernatural beings came about in primitive societies to try to allay peoples fears when they witnessed someone die and with the exception of the Hebrews at the time, those primitive societies had multiple deities, some still do, while others still have animist beliefs with spririts being a part of each animal life or even plants.
A subconscious fear of the "end" of life, and the denial that things are going to go on without our presence in the world, keep many people clinging to beliefs in afterlifes.

Again, this is nothing but a philosophical speculation that has no basis in Science whatsoever. You are proselytizing your faith-based beliefs and claiming it is Science. When we apply Science to your supposition, it falls flat on it's face. We do not observe any sort of spiritual awareness in other upper primates, and we should if what you're claiming is true. If fearing the end of life causes spirituality, it should be apparent in great apes and chimps. But we don't see chimps and apes trucking off to church on Sunday or holding Bible study in the zoo... if that ever starts to happen, maybe I will consider your conjectures valid?

Elephants appear to mourn their dead... but until elephants start conducting ritual ceremonial burials, I don't believe they are being spiritual. I think you've gotten this backwards... Humans are spiritually aware and as a result, fear the end of life. Because they understand spiritual connection they are concerned about what happens to their spirit after this life. Other animals are not spiritually aware so they don't have these concerns and fears and that's why we don't see it anywhere else in nature.

The flaw in the belief in a deity to me, is not only science, but that the so-called "perfect" deity, has all the flaws that humans have:
Anger.
Rage.
Homicidal tendencies.
Insecurity.
Since the supposed deity has all this, it is far more likely that he/she/it was the creation of man, not the other way around.
To believe in science is more rational than to believe in the supernatural.

I actually agree with you on much of this. I don't believe in a God with humanistic characteristics. Why would God need to be angry or jealous... why would God have wants and desires? If this God wanted you to worship him, he would have created you without free will. Worship would be an essential component like breathing or eating.

But again, the man-made inventions of Gods and Deities are merely evidence that humans make a profound and important... and very real... connection to something spiritual. It manifests itself in the form of religions and structured, organized belief systems. It doesn't mean they are valid but that's why they exist. And "supernatural" is something that is outside of nature... human spirituality is very much a part of nature.

The church declared Galileo a heretic for claiming that the sun didn't revolve around the earth and that we were not the center of the universe. Through science, we now know that it was as Galileo said and it took the church hundreds of years to finally agree with him. Science is great and while it doesn't have all the answers, it continues to have more and more, with less and less room for deities.

Yes, this is well documented and has been brought up a few times in this thread. I actually brought up Galileo in response to the appeals to popularity espoused by pseudo-scientists proclaiming how 96% of the "scientific community" believes in some faith-based hypothesis that isn't supported by Science. It's a really big problem humans have with their egos and hubris... we get too big for our britches.

An open mind keeps their minds open to the possibility that science will find more answers. They don't close their minds and pretend Science has answered all the questions. Science doesn't prove that you are right and I am wrong. Science doesn't prove anything... it predicts probability of possibility... Humans conclude proofs. And BECAUSE of Science, often to their chagrin.

 

[TheGreatKing]

Since people are intentionally lying when they know very well that TOE is utter nonsense and some one is trying to steal my glory in supporting my contention, I see no need to participate in this thread.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

Ah, Jupiter, haven't we already agreed that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are different? Why do you apply the same reasoning that if Jupiter was there before man saw it, spirituality was here before man. I reject your example, it's apple and oranges. I am not saying your point is without merit, just hate the example. Spirituality could have been here before man, but since it is not physical, like Jupiter, it would have on effect without a spiritual creature i.e. Man. Jupiter was still exerting whatever influence it does on our solar system before it was seen.

I don't like "man invented spirituality", so we agree on that. I am just supposing, even if spirituality existed before man, it didn't matter, because it had no influence or effect before man.

 

[Boss]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

Ah, Jupiter, haven't we already agreed that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are different? Why do you apply the same reasoning that if Jupiter was there before man saw it, spirituality was here before man. I reject your example, it's apple and oranges. I am not saying your point is without merit, just hate the example. Spirituality could have been here before man, but since it is not physical, like Jupiter, it would have on effect without a spiritual creature i.e. Man. Jupiter was still exerting whatever influence it does on our solar system before it was seen.

I don't like "man invented spirituality", so we agree on that. I am just supposing, even if spirituality existed before man, it didn't matter, because it had no influence or effect before man.

Again... it's like the tree falling in the forest when no one is there to hear it.... It doesn't matter if Jupiter had an effect if man wasn't here to realize it.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I understand what you are saying, but I am not so quick to dismiss that spiritualality can not be born from man. Consider how much spirituality has changed over the centuries. Some cultures used to have a rain God, sun God etc. Man's perception of God, or spirituality, has changed, some may even say evolved with time. We have no history of spirituality before man, fossilized life doesn't suggest any, how could it? Without life there is no spirit. If you stand in front of a mirror in the dark you can't see your reflection, so without man to express spirituality it can't be seen. It is indeed a paradox.

Here's the problem with that... The Darwinists claim man invented spirituality... but if that is so, it defies Darwinism itself. Behavioral characteristics within a species are not retained if they are not crucial to survival of the species. We know of nothing on this planet that has meaningless behavioral characteristics. Things always behave as they do for a reason.

We can go back to the earliest civilizations of man that we've ever discovered and we see evidence of human spirituality. Ritualistic burials with ceremonies using red ocher. This is humans practicing a spiritual belief. That has not changed... humans still practice spiritual beliefs. Have those beliefs evolved with man? Of course they have!

And I have never quite understood this "paradox" you mention about man being necessary to imagine spirituality for it to exist. Do you believe the planet Jupiter never did exist until someone saw it through a telescope? Was it not there before man came along and discovered it?

Ah, Jupiter, haven't we already agreed that the spiritual realm and the physical realm are different? Why do you apply the same reasoning that if Jupiter was there before man saw it, spirituality was here before man. I reject your example, it's apple and oranges. I am not saying your point is without merit, just hate the example. Spirituality could have been here before man, but since it is not physical, like Jupiter, it would have on effect without a spiritual creature i.e. Man. Jupiter was still exerting whatever influence it does on our solar system before it was seen.

I don't like "man invented spirituality", so we agree on that. I am just supposing, even if spirituality existed before man, it didn't matter, because it had no influence or effect before man.

Again... it's like the tree falling in the forest when no one is there to hear it.... It doesn't matter if Jupiter had an effect if man wasn't here to realize it.

I would say yes, Jupiter would have an effect because it's effect shapes the physical world where man exist, or will exist. But spirituality has no effect without man, IMO. Thank you Boss for engaging me in a intellectual conversation without personal insults. So many here seem incapable of that.