The single reason for Liberating Iraq was WMDs.. what was single reason for ACA?

[JakeStarkey]

dblack has give the board a wonderful demonstration of sophistry and demagoguery in the same paragraph.

And, yes, he is wrong: not willing to force others to pay is the same as willingly let other die.

Wrong. You're perfectly willing to let them die if you can't force the rest of us to pay for their healthcare.

You Pay for healthcare for people who could not buy it themselves. Your alternative is to let them die

The point is, being unwilling to force others to pay isn't the same thing as being willing to let people die. Nothing is stopping you and I (and anyone else who wants to) from helping people in need. What you're arguing for is ganging up on those who don't and forcing them to help.

 

[J.E.D]

EVERYONE KNOWS there was ONLY ONE reason for liberating Iraq was WMDs.. RIGHT?
Since there were none found then the Liberation was not necessary.

Therefore we need ONE simple reason for Obamacare being passed?

What major reason did Obamacare PASS by ONLY 6 votes?

Those Congress members passed Obamacare primarily and for what major reason?

Please tell me what single major reason was Obamacare passed?

This might be a bit premature, but I'm going to nominate this thread as the dumbest ******* thread of the year. Congrats, you're a moron

 

[rightwinger]

Is that really what you think this is? Healthcare?

It's not. It's insurance. ACA dictates that we spend our entire lives making payments to the insurance industry - or be punished for our 'insolence'. How in the hell did we let them do that???

If it was up to me we wouldn't have insurance companies. We would cut out the greedy middle man and go directly to universal healthcare.

But given that we have shackled ourselves to the Health Insurance monster, if you don't have insurance, you don't have healthcare

The days of going to your family doctor and paying with a chicken are long gone. You don't have the money, you are out of luck

That is so painful to read, because it is so, so wrong. Health care is not the same thing as health insurance. Buying into that fallacy is exactly what painted us into this corner in the first place. We need less insurance, not more - only for the catastrophes we could never hope to pay for on our own. We CAN and should cut out the middle man - buy simply minimizing our use of insurance. Or at least we could have, before ACA. Now that opportunity is gone. ACA cements the insurance industry's dominant position in law. Congress sold us out.

Polyanna.......Polyanna

Which world do you live in? A world where a doctors visit costs $25 and an operation costs $500?

We are beyond the point where people can pay for basic healthcare out of pocket. A simple trip to the emergency room with x-rays and a few stitches costs a few thousand. A simple operation with an overnight stay costs ten thousand. Do you know how many working families can afford that? Why are Republicans the only ones in the world who want to bankrupt you for getting sick?

 

[J.E.D]

^^Preach on, brother^^

I had to get an MRI a few years back. The hospital charged me $10,000. More recently, I needed stitches -- $2000. Luckily, I was able to get approved for charity care, so both bills were covered 100%; but that's not a solution to our nation's health care problems. I am grateful for the charity, but we need a permanent solution.

 

[rightwinger]

^^Preach on, brother^^

I had to get an MRI a few years back. The hospital charged me $10,000. More recently, I needed stitches -- $2000. Luckily, I was able to get approved for charity care, so both bills were covered 100%; but that's not a solution to our nation's health care problems. I am grateful for the charity, but we need a permanent solution.

It wouldn't be so bad, but this is the same party trying to hold down worker benefits and pay. Work harder, work longer, make sacrifices, do with less and if you get sick or injured be prepared to lose everything you have

Republican utopia

 

[dblack]

If it was up to me we wouldn't have insurance companies. We would cut out the greedy middle man and go directly to universal healthcare.

But given that we have shackled ourselves to the Health Insurance monster, if you don't have insurance, you don't have healthcare

The days of going to your family doctor and paying with a chicken are long gone. You don't have the money, you are out of luck

That is so painful to read, because it is so, so wrong. Health care is not the same thing as health insurance. Buying into that fallacy is exactly what painted us into this corner in the first place. We need less insurance, not more - only for the catastrophes we could never hope to pay for on our own. We CAN and should cut out the middle man - buy simply minimizing our use of insurance. Or at least we could have, before ACA. Now that opportunity is gone. ACA cements the insurance industry's dominant position in law. Congress sold us out.

Polyanna.......Polyanna

Which world do you live in? A world where a doctors visit costs $25 and an operation costs $500?

I'm living in a world of insanity. A world where people of average income, living in the richest country in the world, accept out of control health care prices as "the way things are". And instead of asking why, and doing something about it, they continue down the same path - requiring everyone to indulge the very same habits that created the situation to begin with.

Think about what you're saying. Does it make any sense that basic health care is so expensive? Have you ever really looked into why that's the case? Have you thought about what would happen in any other industry if we implemented the same policies we've loaded on health care?

One of the most obvious drivers of health care inflation is that most of us have no reason at all to want cheap health care. We've created a health care market that has two kinds of consumers. Those with health insurance and virtually no incentive to look for cheap health care, and those without who, unless they are very rich, can't afford health care at all.

Why are Republicans the only ones in the world who want to bankrupt you for getting sick?

Stow it. You know I'm not a Republican and you know I don't want to bankrupt anyone. Except perhaps for the bastards in congress creating this shit.

 

[dblack]

It wouldn't be so bad, but this is the same party trying to hold down worker benefits and pay. Work harder, work longer, make sacrifices, do with less and if you get sick or injured be prepared to lose everything you have

Republican utopia

Hmmm... The Republicans came up with the core of ACA to begin with. Sure you don't want to rethink that line? If anything is a "Republican Utopia", it's the corporatist nightmare of ACA.

 

[Unkotare]

EVERYONE KNOWS there was ONLY ONE reason for liberating Iraq was WMDs.. RIGHT?
?

No, but I see what you're getting at here. Carry on.

 

[tjvh]

to get more people access to healthcare

You really mean: To get more people access to other people's wallets so they can access healthcare with other people's money.

 

[rightwinger]

That is so painful to read, because it is so, so wrong. Health care is not the same thing as health insurance. Buying into that fallacy is exactly what painted us into this corner in the first place. We need less insurance, not more - only for the catastrophes we could never hope to pay for on our own. We CAN and should cut out the middle man - buy simply minimizing our use of insurance. Or at least we could have, before ACA. Now that opportunity is gone. ACA cements the insurance industry's dominant position in law. Congress sold us out.

Polyanna.......Polyanna

Which world do you live in? A world where a doctors visit costs $25 and an operation costs $500?

I'm living in a world of insanity. A world where people of average income, living in the richest country in the world, accept out of control health care prices as "the way things are". And instead of asking why, and doing something about it, they continue down the same path - requiring everyone to indulge the very same habits that created the situation to begin with.

Think about what you're saying. Does it make any sense that basic health care is so expensive? Have you ever really look into why that's the case? Have you thought about what would happen in any other industry if we implemented the same policies we've loaded on health care?

One of the most obvious drivers of health care inflation is that most of us have no reason at all to want cheap health care. We've created a health care market that has two kinds of consumers. Those with health insurance and virtually no incentive to look for cheap health care, and those without who, unless they are very rich, can't afford health care at all.

Why are Republicans the only ones in the world who want to bankrupt you for getting sick?

Stow it. You know I'm not a Republican and you know I don't want to bankrupt anyone. Except perhaps for the bastards in congress creating this shit.

Sure Polyanna

If we only stop paying, all those nasty medical bills will just go away. Sorry Doctor but I refuse to pay $500 for that X-ray. Here is $20 now go away

 

[healthmyths]

EVERYONE KNOWS there was ONLY ONE reason for liberating Iraq was WMDs.. RIGHT?
Since there were none found then the Liberation was not necessary.

Therefore we need ONE simple reason for Obamacare being passed?

What major reason did Obamacare PASS by ONLY 6 votes?

Those Congress members passed Obamacare primarily and for what major reason?

Please tell me what single major reason was Obamacare passed?

This might be a bit premature, but I'm going to nominate this thread as the dumbest ******* thread of the year. Congrats, you're a moron

Well thanks! Coming from a classic IDIOT it means NOTHING.
You honestly think if there were 47 million "uninsured" how do you account.. (big word I know ..it means consider that:
even though 10 million are not citizens,
14 million are already covered by Medicaid and
18 million that can afford, are under 34 don't need and pay their own health bills despite idiots like Pelosi calling them "free-loaders" you prove your stupidity!
You can't even subtract 42 million from 47 million cause it requires more toes/fingers you have.. wait maybe an inbreed shrift like you may have them!

As my point went WAY over your head.. why do you idiots want Obamacare?
If it was to provide health care for everyone that already exists for 99.4% of Americans!
for you since you can't do high level math.. 5 million uninsured/310 million: 1.6%!

So again do you think idiots are going to Obamacare when they realize it was SOLD like the Brooklyn bridge on totally FALSE premise.. i.e. 47 million uninsured!

 

[dblack]

If we only stop paying, all those nasty medical bills will just go away. Sorry Doctor but I refuse to pay $500 for that X-ray. Here is $20 now go away

Yeah... to a large degree - exactly that. You can't begin to sober up until you stop drinking.

 

[rightwinger]

It wouldn't be so bad, but this is the same party trying to hold down worker benefits and pay. Work harder, work longer, make sacrifices, do with less and if you get sick or injured be prepared to lose everything you have

Republican utopia

Hmmm... The Republicans came up with the core of ACA to begin with. Sure you don't want to rethink that line? If anything is a "Republican Utopia", it's the corporatist nightmare of ACA.

They did?

Guess that is why none of them would vote for it.

 

[dblack]

It wouldn't be so bad, but this is the same party trying to hold down worker benefits and pay. Work harder, work longer, make sacrifices, do with less and if you get sick or injured be prepared to lose everything you have

Republican utopia

Hmmm... The Republicans came up with the core of ACA to begin with. Sure you don't want to rethink that line? If anything is a "Republican Utopia", it's the corporatist nightmare of ACA.

They did?

Guess that is why none of them would vote for it.

You know damn well why they wouldn't vote for it - simply because they weren't controlling it. The same reason Dems wouldn't have voted for it if the Republicans were driving.

 

[J.E.D]

EVERYONE KNOWS there was ONLY ONE reason for liberating Iraq was WMDs.. RIGHT?
Since there were none found then the Liberation was not necessary.

Therefore we need ONE simple reason for Obamacare being passed?

What major reason did Obamacare PASS by ONLY 6 votes?

Those Congress members passed Obamacare primarily and for what major reason?

Please tell me what single major reason was Obamacare passed?

This might be a bit premature, but I'm going to nominate this thread as the dumbest ******* thread of the year. Congrats, you're a moron

Well thanks!

You're welcome. Just doing my part in recognizing the biggest hacks on USMB. Congrats again on your prestigious award. You deserve it!

 

[JakeStarkey]

We GOP controlled Congress 1994 to 2006 and failed to produce health reform.

SCOTUS has ruled ACA constitutional.

We have to deal with that fact.

 

[dblack]

We GOP controlled Congress 1994 to 2006 and failed to produce health reform.

SCOTUS has ruled ACA constitutional.

We have to deal with that fact.

Yep. We need to remove all the sellouts who voted for it, repeal it, and pass an amendment that sets sane limits on the taxation power so they don't try this kind of shit again.

 

[healthmyths]

^^Preach on, brother^^

I had to get an MRI a few years back. The hospital charged me $10,000. More recently, I needed stitches -- $2000. Luckily, I was able to get approved for charity care, so both bills were covered 100%; but that's not a solution to our nation's health care problems. I am grateful for the charity, but we need a permanent solution.

A) There are NOT 47 million "uninsured" which was the fallacy used to pass ACA!
B) There are after subtracting 10 million that are NOT citizens, 14 million that ARE insured under Medicaid, and the biggest fallacy 18 million under age 34, that earn over $50k and PAY their health bills out of pocket... they are counted WRONGLY!
C) THUS THERE are less then 6 million truly uninsured that need coverage!

If that number had been used AND the acceptance that rising health insurance premiums were a direct result of hospitals that "padded and Passed" on to Medicare BECAUSE Medicare dictated in 1986 any hospital taking Medicare HAD to see any "uninsured" patient.
EMTALA!
Hospitals then began to do and PLEASE tell me what city you live in and I"ll show you the outrageous MARKUPS as you pointed out for MRIs that cost the hospital sometimes 5,000% less to do then they charged Medicare/insurance AND YOU!
For example
It cost Mount Sinai Medical $218 to do a MRI for which they billed Medicare $3,742 -- Markup 1,716%!
At Orlando Regional an MRI cost them $254.--BUT they billed Medicare $3,625 --Markup 1,427%!
Medical City in Dallas billed Medicare an average of $3,425 for 485 MRIs that cost them $189 each --A Markup 1,711%!

So the solution is "Uncompensated Health Insurance Services" (UHIS) a for profit under contract with the government that requires:
A) Lawyers pay 10% tax (after all ACA taxes tanning salons!!) Revenue $10 billion
B) Hospitals 10% premium of $60 billion "uncompensated care" Revenue $6 billion

This $16 billion is then used to provide the truly 6 million uninsured PREMIUM at $3k each.
All hospitals seeing "uninsured" must register the uninsured with UHIS and send the claims to UHIS!
PROBLEM solved because hospitals then can't "pad and pass" on to Medicare/private insurance and YOU the costs of servicing the "uninsured"! It would be illegal!

In 2008 28,000 MRIs were performed.
if at the average of the above $3,597 that figure was reduced because "padding and passing on was NOT accepted by Medicare but a modest markup of 300% or a bill sent
to Medicare/insurance/YOU of $661 instead of $3,597..
SAVINGS on 28,000 MRIs: $82 million.. and that's just on MRIs!

Medicare costs would decline. Private Insurance would decline! You wouldn't have to beg for charity!
All because
A) recognition there are less then 6 million NOT 47 million "uninsured"
B) Padding and passing markups of 1,000% illegal.
C) Lawyers reducing their lawsuits which GENERATED $600 billion according to 90% of physicians in "DEFENSIVE MEDICINE" costs each year!

All by recognizing the REALTY of the problem... EMTALA!!

 

[idb]

EVERYONE KNOWS there was ONLY ONE reason for liberating Iraq was WMDs.. RIGHT?
Since there were none found then the Liberation was not necessary.

Therefore we need ONE simple reason for Obamacare being passed?

What major reason did Obamacare PASS by ONLY 6 votes?

Those Congress members passed Obamacare primarily and for what major reason?

Please tell me what single major reason was Obamacare passed?

Purple. Because aliens don't wear hats.

Isn't that two reasons?

 

[idb]

We GOP controlled Congress 1994 to 2006 and failed to produce health reform.

SCOTUS has ruled ACA constitutional.

We have to deal with that fact.

Yep. We need to remove all the sellouts who voted for it, repeal it, and pass an amendment that sets sane limits on the taxation power so they don't try this kind of shit again.

How are they sellouts?