Zone1 The Problem of Evil

[onefour1]

In philosophy, there is a famous argument against the existence of God that goes something like this:

God is a being who is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnibenevolent (all loving and all good). If God is all powerful, He would certainly have the power to rid the universe of evil. If God is all knowing, He would certainly know how to rid the universe of evil. If God is an all good and loving being, He certainly would not allow the evil in the universe to exist. So, if God exists, then there should be no evil in all the universe. Evil exists therefore there is no God.

Also when giving the answer that man is imperfect and has been given free will and this is why evil exists, I have heard the response that if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, he should have created us to be perfect like himself and we shouldn't have imperfection. In other words, why didn't God simply create us all as perfect beings? It is argued that if God is omnibenevolent he should have created us all perfect and spared us the pain, suffering and death we experience in this world.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our scriptures give us answer to this philosophical argument and I will express those in following posts. In this thread I want to hear from all those who believe in God what their answers are to this philosophical argument.

 

[fncceo]

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "The evolution of the eye is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

 

[MarcATL]

In philosophy, there is a famous argument against the existence of God that goes something like this:

God is a being who is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnibenevolent (all loving and all good). If God is all powerful, He would certainly have the power to rid the universe of evil. If God is all knowing, He would certainly know how to rid the universe of evil. If God is an all good and loving being, He certainly would not allow the evil in the universe to exist. So, if God exists, then there should be no evil in all the universe. Evil exists therefore there is no God.

Also when giving the answer that man is imperfect and has been given free will and this is why evil exists, I have heard the response that if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, he should have created us to be perfect like himself and we shouldn't have imperfection. In other words, why didn't God simply create us all as perfect beings? It is argued that if God is omnibenevolent he should have created us all perfect and spared us the pain, suffering and death we experience in this world.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our scriptures give us answer to this philosophical argument and I will express those in following posts. In this thread I want to hear from all those who believe in God what their answers are to this philosophical argument.

How are you defining "love?"

 

[1srelluc]

Just sayin'.

 

[fncceo]

If God is all powerful, He would certainly have the power to rid the universe of evil. If God is all knowing, He would certainly know how to rid the universe of evil. If God is an all good and loving being, He certainly would not allow the evil in the universe to exist. So, if God exists, then there should be no evil in all the universe. Evil exists therefore there is no God.

To a colony of cillia in a petri dish, the lab technician would certainly appear as a god.

But, the lab technician is only interested in the end result of what happens to the cillia in the dish. Any intervening steps of development, while noteworthy, cannot be interfered with as it will change the ultimate result of his experiment.

Maybe what you perceive as "evil" is merely another factor in our ultimate development and to interfere with it would change what we ultimately are expected to become.

It would be pretentious in the extreme to believe that after 14 Billion years of evolution, that WE are the ultimate result of G-d's plan. We might be a VERY long way from that result.

 

[JGalt]

Folks believe that God doesn't exist, don't understand His plan. They believe that this temporal world is all that exists, and don't realize that God's realm is much larger than this world, or the universe for that matter.

God is perfect, he doesn't make mistakes. He created us in His own image, and created evil as well. He created His angels and allowed one of them to become prideful, that one being Lucifer. God allowed the fallen angel to tempt Adam and Eve in the Garden, in order that sin would be introduced into the world. It was because of this sin that we, His creation, would draw ourselves nearer to our Creator by overcoming it. And in overcoming sin, we become more like He who created us. I think he did all this to impress upon us how mighty He is, how much He loves us, and what awaits those who believe in Him. So evil is not as much of a "problem", as it is something He gave us, which is a tool to help us learn to overcome it, and become one with Him.

 

[miketx]

How are you defining "love?"

Not looting a liquor store.

 

[onefour1]

How are you defining "love?"

If this question is in reference to the Problem of Evil, I would point out that this philosophical argument is not something that I came up with but is a philosophical argument made by someone who thought he had proof that God didn't exist. So, in answer to your question, I am not defining "love" but merely stating what the famous "Problem of Evil" argument is and asking for others to comment.

 

[JGalt]

Not looting a liquor store.

What if he loves liquor very, very, very, much?

Same answer: "Not looting a liquor store."

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

In philosophy, there is a famous argument against the existence of God that goes something like this:

God is a being who is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnibenevolent (all loving and all good). If God is all powerful, He would certainly have the power to rid the universe of evil. If God is all knowing, He would certainly know how to rid the universe of evil. If God is an all good and loving being, He certainly would not allow the evil in the universe to exist. So, if God exists, then there should be no evil in all the universe. Evil exists therefore there is no God.

Also when giving the answer that man is imperfect and has been given free will and this is why evil exists, I have heard the response that if God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, he should have created us to be perfect like himself and we shouldn't have imperfection. In other words, why didn't God simply create us all as perfect beings? It is argued that if God is omnibenevolent he should have created us all perfect and spared us the pain, suffering and death we experience in this world.

As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our scriptures give us answer to this philosophical argument and I will express those in following posts. In this thread I want to hear from all those who believe in God what their answers are to this philosophical argument.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "The evolution of the eye is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.

You seem to have misspelled “Babel Fish”.

 

[MarcATL]

If this question is in reference to the Problem of Evil, I would point out that this philosophical argument is not something that I came up with but is a philosophical argument made by someone who thought he had proof that God didn't exist. So, in answer to your question, I am not defining "love" but merely stating what the famous "Problem of Evil" argument is and asking for others to comment.

In your OP, you stated that "God is all loving" aka love.

So how are you defining the word sir?

 

[fncceo]

You seem to have misspelled “Babel Fish”.

I didn't want to have to explain what a Babel Fish was. You'd be surprised how few people know that.

 

[onefour1]

In your OP, you stated that "God is all loving" aka love.

So how are you defining the word sir?

like I said, I am not defining "love" in my post. I am simply regurgitating the philosophy of others. It is they who use the word and leave it to the reader to use their own definition. However, if you would like me to give my definition of love, it is as follows:

God is love.

1 John 4:7-8
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Dictionary.com states the definition of love as follows. I agree with these 2 definitions:

a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.

We are God's children and He loves his children

 

[onefour1]

Let me ask the question, does the meaning of omnipotence mean that God can do absolutely anything imaginable or does it mean that God can do all things that are possible for God to do but there may be things that are eternally impossible even for God? For example,

Can God be a being who has all power and no power simultaneously?
Can God be a being who has all knowledge and no knowledge simultaneously?
Can God be an all good being and simultaneously be an all evil being?
Can God exist and not exist simultaneously?

If God cannot do the above, then he cannot do anything imaginable.

 

[Meriweather]

I want to hear from all those who believe in God what their answers are to this philosophical argument.

Scripture notes, first, that God is Creator. God can bring good out of evil. Scripture also says to God, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day. It appears, then, that God continues to bring good out of evil day by day.

To this I have also (in the past) noted that God created us in His image and likeness, meaning we, too, are creators, and capable of creating good from evil.

Do we see good coming from evil? If we do, doesn't that overturn the argument there would be no evil if God exists since good is constantly coming from evil?

 

[onefour1]

Scripture notes, first, that God is Creator. God can bring good out of evil. Scripture also says to God, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day. It appears, then, that God continues to bring good out of evil day by day.

To this I have also (in the past) noted that God created us in His image and likeness, meaning we, too, are creators, and capable of creating good from evil.

Do we see good coming from evil? If we do, doesn't that overturn the argument there would be no evil if God exists since good is constantly coming from evil?

Can you give examples of good coming from evil?

 

[Leo123]

Humans can be good or evil and everything in between depending on one's perspective. Cultures sacrificing innocent people to their god we see as evil but, they do not see it that way. Ancient Romans did not think Gladiators were evil because it was part of their culture. Today, humans fighting to the death in an arena for entertainment we see as evil.

 

[onefour1]

Humans can be good or evil and everything in between depending on one's perspective. Cultures sacrificing innocent people to their god we see as evil but, they do not see it that way. Ancient Romans did not think Gladiators were evil because it was part of their culture. Today, humans fighting to the death in an arena for entertainment we see as evil.

So, is it possible for there to be one true objective good and evil and not be subjective to the whims of mankind?

 

[Leo123]

So, is it possible for there to be one true objective good and evil and not be subjective to the whims of mankind?

If you were in a culture that believed in human sacrifice, you would not think it is evil. After all, they had their gods too. Romans had their gods who apparently condoned blood sport and murder. They did not see that as evil, it was entertainment. When Christians faced the arena weaponless and let themselves be mauled by wild beasts without resisting, Romans were flabbergasted. It is interesting, IMO, that Rome went Christian after that so, a benevolent life-affirming belief and God prevailed. I think that means something, in that respecting life seems pretty powerful so, it must be innate in humans but, can be suppressed under the right conditions. To me, it's all part of 'free will' which can be a double-edged sword. (no pun intended)