The Palestine Solution

[Shusha]

Good point about holy sites, as well as access and protection of those places. Maybe some sort of interim joint government for Hebron to smooth transition? I don't know.

Which is essentially what there is now, put in place with Oslo. Half of the city is under the PA and half under Israel and supposedly security co-operation at the holy site. That is obviously not a permanent solution. Israel may have to annex its half of Hebron and access to it? But perhaps that could be temporary?

 

[Shusha]

Better yet to deport hostile palestinians to Arab palestine

Not one more inch

Yeah, well, deportation tends to be frowned upon these days. Not to mention a violation of law. So, I can't agree with you.

 

[Billo_Really]

Wrong, there is no occupation. Israel is using land set aside for th creation of a Jewish national homeland for exactly that for which it was intended.

Also restrictions are in place to peacefully resist a violent bigoted movement. Anytime the palestinians want to live in peace they are welcome to do so. Once that is established restrictions will not be necessary

If there was no occupation, there would be no restrictions.

 

[Billo_Really]

Better yet to deport hostile palestinians to Arab palestine

Not one more inch

They're already in Arab Palestine. They're not going anywhere. The Israeli's are the ones who are going to pack up and leave.

The world community wouldn't let Hitler keep Poland and its not going to let Israel keep the OPT.

 

[Billo_Really]

As i read through the thread I'm not seeing one very important rational the mandate administrators considered when they began this enterprise. The fair and impartial exchange of populations. The Turkish Greek issues had recently been settled by a mass movement of populations. Million actually. So while the Jewish populations of the middle east, Northern Africa, Europe, Russia and elsewhere were happy to pull up stakes and move, the Arabs of this area refused to do so and those that did are now being used as pawns in some twisted right to return nonsense.

The simple reality is that the 80/20 split in favor of the Arabs was thought to be adequate by the British at the time who never envisioned the level of bigotry and racism that the Arabs of the region had towards the Judaic population.

IMHO there should be no further compromise on land distribution. The disputed territories should remain under Israeli control. Any violent protesters should be deported to palestinian areas ( Jordan or Gaza ) along with their families and anyone wishing to live in peace should be integrated into Israeli society becoming Israel citizens. Those refusing Israeli citizenship should be given 6 month visas at the end of which time they should be required to leave Israel, which IMHO includes ALL of the disputed territories

There is no need for ANOTHER palestionian state. Gaza and Jordan should be enough given that the encompass over 80% of the original British mandate.

Efforts to the contrary are simply attempts to destabilize the already tenuous Israeli position.

No further compromise, not one more inch.

There are only two solutions on the Israeli table:

1. Leave voluntarily
2. or be forced to

Now pick!

 

[Billo_Really]

Wrong, the palestinians today are largely of North African descent. SOME of which have ties to the early Hyksos SOME of which eventually progressed into the Judaic peoples.

Hypothetically we could say we are all related but any reasonable look at this will show that most Judaic peoples have specific genetic markers to distinguish them from other North Africans

Nope. Colonial Jews are from Russia and as for the Palestinian's...

Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews ​

 

[Shusha]

Wrong, the palestinians today are largely of North African descent. SOME of which have ties to the early Hyksos SOME of which eventually progressed into the Judaic peoples.

Hypothetically we could say we are all related but any reasonable look at this will show that most Judaic peoples have specific genetic markers to distinguish them from other North Africans

Nope. Colonial Jews are from Russia and as for the Palestinian's...

Israeli Historian: Palestinians Are Biological Descendants of Bible’s Jews ​

This is totally off-topic, but I just can't let this kind of false information sit here without response.

1. There is little evidence for the Khazar theory. And experts in the field (of which Sand is not) reject this theory.
2. Genetic (ie biological) evidence is clear that all groups of Jews descend from Middle East ancestry, with some admixture of European ancestry -- as would be expected in diaspora. Let's be clear that the biological descendants of the "Bible's Jews" are BOTH the Palestinian people (with an admixture of other Arabs) AND the Jewish people in the diaspora (with an admixture of Europeans).

Having said that, I will again point out that using genetics to include or exclude people or groups of people from an ethnic or cultural group is smacks of "purity" racism. Especially when that "purity" racism is applied to only one group. And even more especially when it is applied for political purposes.

Additionally, a key point to defining indigenous populations and the right to self-determination is self-identification. The group in question decides who does or who does not belong to their group. Outsiders have no say in the matter.

 

[Boston1]

Two things. Its not illegal to deport palestinians from Israel controlled areas to Jordanian or Gazan controlled areas as all those areas were originally Judea and as such eventually called palestine. Palestine was divided in a time when the exchange of populations was perfectly acceptable ( I gave the Greek Turk example ) Ergo since the Judaic populations of these areas to a huge degree left areas of Arab influence the Arabs of the Israeli areas failed to do so. Deporting the violent among them to another areas within the original British mandate is perfectly acceptable. And will continue.

As for lineage there is ample evidence that the present day palestinians are largely of Northern African descent and that the Judaic people are largely of a more segregated descent with specific genetic markers typical of Jewish heritage, being significantly more prevalent.

Its not a popular subject but the revisionists just can't be allowed to have it all their way

quote

In accord with most geneticists, Ostrer firmly rejects the fashionable postmodernist dismissal of the concept of race as genetically naive, opting for a more nuanced perspective.

Read more: Jews Are a 'Race,' Genes Reveal

End quote

 

[Coyote]

You can expel huge numbers of people who have lived there for generations for no reason than that you want their land - that's an unjust and inhumane "solution" that amounts to ethnic cleansing. People who propose it have only to look at the humanitarian crisis caused by the Syrian civil war and the conflict in Iraq, and the millions of displaced people in camps around the region to realize that. Any real solution has to accept that the Israeli's are here to stay and the Palestinians are here to stay and some means must be found to create a lasting peace.

 

[Coyote]

Jordan is 100% palestinian, why wouldn't it be considered a palestinian state ?

Its leaders have repeatedly said Jordan is palestine. So why is it so hard for some folks to accept that Jordan is palestine

from

Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan. « IsraelAmerica

quote
Jordan is Palestine. Palestine is Jordan.This is the royal decree and sentiments of two of the kings of Jordan.

“Palestine and Jordan are one…” said King Abdullah in 1948.

“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan,”said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.


Let’s closely examine the facts of history from the Arab perspective, rather than the Jewish one, regarding Jordan and Palestine.

“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate,” Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.

Accordingly, Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, “The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”

In other words, Jordan is Palestine. Arab Palestine. There is absolutely no difference between Jordan and Palestine, nor between Jordanians and Palestinians (all actually Arabs).

end quote

So you are talking about Jordan annexing the land where the Palestinians currently lived and have lived for many generations? That would be a one state solution then.

 

[Coyote]

Two things. Its not illegal to deport palestinians from Israel controlled areas to Jordanian or Gazan controlled areas as all those areas were originally Judea and as such eventually called palestine. Palestine was divided in a time when the exchange of populations was perfectly acceptable ( I gave the Greek Turk example ) Ergo since the Judaic populations of these areas to a huge degree left areas of Arab influence the Arabs of the Israeli areas failed to do so. Deporting the violent among them to another areas within the original British mandate is perfectly acceptable. And will continue.

As for lineage there is ample evidence that the present day palestinians are largely of Northern African descent and that the Judaic people are largely of a more segregated descent with specific genetic markers typical of Jewish heritage, being significantly more prevalent.

Its not a popular subject but the revisionists just can't be allowed to have it all their way

quote

In accord with most geneticists, Ostrer firmly rejects the fashionable postmodernist dismissal of the concept of race as genetically naive, opting for a more nuanced perspective.

Read more: Jews Are a 'Race,' Genes Reveal

End quote

As far as lineage - it's irrelevant and a distraction. The history of three thousand years ago has no bearing on the current situation and using it and genetics is nothing more than an attempt to disenfranchise the rights of a people whether it's claiming that the Ashkanazi Jews are invaders or claiming that the Palestinians are not indiginous.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If Mary and Joseph tried to walk to Bethlehem today they'd likely be murdered by Palestinians.

Why would they be murdered by their own relatives?

The Palestinian's today, are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

Where in the world did you get that whopper from? Palestinians immigrated into thevregion, mostly to get jobs as the Jews turned the region prosperous in the past 70 years. Read Mark Twains eyewitness account of his trip there - the region was void of people.

 

[Billo_Really]

Where in the world did you get that whopper from? Palestinians immigrated into thevregion, mostly to get jobs as the Jews turned the region prosperous in the past 70 years. Read Mark Twains eyewitness account of his trip there - the region was void of people.

Mark Twain wrote fiction novels. He was not an anthropologist.

As far as the Palestinian's...

"In 2001, Human Immunology magazine published a genetic study conducted by Prof. Antonio Arnez-Vilna, a Spanish researcher from the University of Complutense in Madrid, who discovered that the immune systems of the Jews and the Palestinians are extremely close to one another in a way that almost absolutely demonstrates a similar genetic identity.

...a 2002 test by Tel Aviv University researchers, determined that only two groups in the world - Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians - were genetically susceptible to an inherited deafness syndrome.

[all DNA studies] show that "the Palestinians are genetically much closer to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to the Arabs."
​

And as far as jobs...

That is total bullshit. For only Jews, could work on Jewish farms. Hiring anyone but a Jew, would get the land owner fined by the leasing company.

Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only

"... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."

​

 

[Kondor3]

...Mark Twain wrote fiction novels. He was not an anthropologist...

He was also a social commentator; neither of which is a prerequisite for using one's own eyes, and observing a scarcity of human presence.

 

[Boston1]

Actually if you read my post you'll see I kept it to violent palestinians and I'd add, their families or households.

And NO
You completely misunderstood my suggestion

 

[Billo_Really]

He was also a social commentator; neither of which is a prerequisite for using one's own eyes, and observing a scarcity of human presence.

Here's a statement by Lord Curzon, of the British government, in 1920...

"Here is a country with 580,000 Arabs and 30,000 or is it 60,000 Jews (by no means all Zionists)." ​

Mark Twain's comments don't supersede comments from the government administering the area.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually if you read my post you'll see I kept it to violent palestinians and I'd add, their families or households.

And NO
You completely misunderstood my suggestion

Who are you talking to?

 

[Coyote]

Let's get back to the topic please...

 

[Boston1]

If Mary and Joseph tried to walk to Bethlehem today they'd likely be murdered by Palestinians.

Why would they be murdered by their own relatives?

The Palestinian's today, are the direct decendants of the Israelites.

Where in the world did you get that whopper from? Palestinians immigrated into thevregion, mostly to get jobs as the Jews turned the region prosperous in the past 70 years. Read Mark Twains eyewitness account of his trip there - the region was void of people.

Mark Twain wrote fiction novels. He was not an anthropologist.

As far as the Palestinian's...

"In 2001, Human Immunology magazine published a genetic study conducted by Prof. Antonio Arnez-Vilna, a Spanish researcher from the University of Complutense in Madrid, who discovered that the immune systems of the Jews and the Palestinians are extremely close to one another in a way that almost absolutely demonstrates a similar genetic identity.

...a 2002 test by Tel Aviv University researchers, determined that only two groups in the world - Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians - were genetically susceptible to an inherited deafness syndrome.

[all DNA studies] show that "the Palestinians are genetically much closer to Ashkenazi Jews than they are to the Arabs."
​

And as far as jobs...

That is total bullshit. For only Jews, could work on Jewish farms. Hiring anyone but a Jew, would get the land owner fined by the leasing company.

Keren Kayemet draft lease: Employment of Jewish labour only

"... The lessee undertakes to execute all works connected with the cultivation of the holding only with Jewish labour. Failure to comply with this duty by the employment of non-Jewish labour shall render the lessee liable to the payment of compensation ..."

​

Again a distortion. Of course people within a given area of the world will have interbred to some degree and genetic markers will be similar. But that doesn't mean there aren't specific markers for specific groups distinguishing them from one another


See

Jews worldwide share genetic ties : Nature News

 

[Boston1]

Let's get back to the topic please...

The solution is quite simple. Anytime a palestinian is found guilty of engaging in a violent act against the state he/she is to be summarily deported along with his/her immediate family members/housemates.

And before I'm berated for offering another nonviolent sollution I think its important to realize that previously applied restrictions are limiting the weapons to knives and clunkers. Nonviolent solutions do work.