The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[José]

This is RoccoR being lynched and then crucified by an angry, irrational mob for the "crime" of merely recognizing a reality that's in front of his eyes:

"The europeans who founded the state of Israel 70 years ago didn't have a single drop of semitic blood running through their veins.

They were as foreigners in Palestine as Puritans in Massachussets."

 

[Shusha]

This is RoccoR being lynched and then crucified by an angry, irrational mob for the "crime" of merely recognizing a reality that's in front of his eyes:

"The europeans who founded the state of Israel 70 years ago didn't have a single drop of semitic blood running through their veins.

They were as foreigners in Palestine as Puritans in Massachussets."

Oh, give me a break. Rocco is not being lynched by an angry mob. Why does Team Palestine have to be so dramatic all the time? Do you actually believe the false appeal to emotion helps your arguments?

The Jewish people, like all peoples, have a right to self-determination. The Jewish people originated in Israel, Judea and Samaria. That is where they are FROM. Arguing that this is not true is simply ridiculous. And it rejects or inverts every definition of history, peoples, indigeneity, or culture that has always operated in the world. Because....Jooooos.

The argument that, of course, the Hebrew people existed long ago in the area, built Temples and places of study and worship and tombs to their ancestors and cities; that they spoke Hebrew and Aramaic, and practiced the Jewish religion, and followed Jewish laws, both religious and secular, and celebrated Jews holidays and life celebrations, and then were conquered and disappeared. And yet that those people in the world today -- including those who never left the homeland -- who also speak Hebrew, and practice the Jewish religion, and follow Jewish laws and celebrate Jewish holidays and life celebrations have NOTHING TO DO with the Hebrew people?! I can hardly imagine a more ridiculous argument.

 

[José]

Ok Shusha I understand what you are trying to say...

The europeans who founded the state of Israel inherited the religious heritage of the ancient Jews and the cultural practices and idea of peoplehood associated with that religion and, according to you, this makes them indigenous to Palestine regardless of their DNA.

I understand your argument but that was not what Rocco and Rehmani were discussing.

They were clearly debating the genetic ancestry of Askhenazis:

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

Rehmani
​

No matter what you believe, or understand, or even can prove, there comes a point in time when the predominately immigrant populations transitions to the indigenous population.

​

To be completely fair to Rocco, he's not saying european Jews are not genetic descendants of ancient Jews he's saying the whole issue is irrelevant... because it's in the past, because it "has been overtaken by events".

The reason Rocco tries to minimize the issue of the semitic ancestry of Askhenazis is that deep down his heart he knows it's all a big, pathetic joke that can't even be entertained as a serious idea that's worth of debate by anyone with an IQ above 70.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

This is RoccoR being lynched and then crucified by an angry, irrational mob for the "crime" of merely recognizing a reality that's in front of his eyes:

"The europeans who founded the state of Israel 70 years ago didn't have a single drop of semitic blood running through their veins.

They were as foreigners in Palestine as Puritans in Massachussets."

Aren't you the one who always posted pictures of blond-haired Jews, who aren't the majority of Jews anyway, and asked how could some Semitic ppl be blond? Of course, that was before Shirley Temper became the poster child for the Palestinian cause by slapping around Israeli soldiers--the same Palestinian Shirley Temper with blond hair and blue eyes! So much for your theory that Palestinians are Semitic but Jews could never be, due to skin and hair color! By the way, I took a DNA test. Although it confirmed that I'm 100% European, there were also genetic markers indicating that I'm descended from ppl who originally came from the Middle East area. And more than 50% of the Jews in Israel are Sephardic or Mizrahi--meaning that they came directly from Middle Eastern countries anyway. Besides, as Shusha pointed out, the melodrama from your part is way over-the-top.

 

[Rehmani]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Rehmani, et al,

No matter what you believe, or understand, or even can prove, there comes a point in time when the predominately immigrant populations transitions to the indigenous population.

At one point, the Europeans were the immigrants to North America. It was a time when the various North American Indian tribal populations were indigenous.

Now, while the North American Indian tribal populations are still considered indigenous, most of those tribal populations have been relocated, and certainly, a vast majority of the territories have been assumed by the Europeans (now North Americans) and now the Canadians and Americans are considered indigenous to any outside invaders.

See: Who are indigenous peoples?
UN Factsheet
◈ Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body.

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

(COMMENT)

This entire discussion about who is indigenous is a "Red Herring" and irrelevant to the current status of the Israelis and Arab Palestinians. The Question of Palestine has been overtaken by events. The Arab Palestinians have to live with the consequences of their political, military and diplomatic efforts → taken directly or by external parties on their behalf.

But the Israelis as a people or culture were invited to establish a Jewish National Home. Whatever view the Arab Palestinians may hold, the agreed upon settlement process is the outcome of a series of actions and steps taken in order to achieve that goal.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agreed, but jew don't. Because that's how they are, and as we know that past always repeat and in case of jew it repeat quit rapidly. And I am sure you will stand by with yours comment for people of Palestine as well by then.

 

[Rehmani]

He probably doesn't know what you're talking about because he can't speak Hebrew. "Foundation of peace", the meaning of the name, comes from Hebrew. The Greek form of the name was adapted from Hebrew and it doesn't have any meaning in the Greek language.

Jerusalem, Cna'an and Palestine are simply names in Hebrew, no real meaning in Greek.
I'm still waiting for his explanation regarding the "Artichoke"

Search Net and correct yours nonsense; "Jerusalem nomes comes from Greek Hierousalem"

They say, "You can't fix stupid." The Greek version is simply a transliteration (if you know what that means) of the Hebrew name of the city. The Hebrew word Shalem means Complete, because Jerusalem is complete and holy. It is also a derivation of Shalom, the Hebrew word for Peace. Abraham called the city Yireh, meaning that Gd "Sees" or looks at that city. King Melchizedek of the city (whom some identify as Shem, son of Noah) called it Shalem (the meanings of which I explained earlier). Jerusalem (or Yerushalayim in Hebrew) is a combination of those 2 names for the city.

Well then its means you are not fixable..... Are you?

Second why you are looking at those things like this name is not from here and that name is not from there because it is made you felt better. While it is wrong you are telling to master that they are wrong and you are right.
If these expert are sharing there views on internet that "Jerusalem name comes from Greek Hierousalem" its mot means they are fool., it means you are idiot who telling to others by manipulating these ancient names.

Greek language/Wikipedia.
"Greek has been spoken in the Balkan peninsula since around the 3rd millennium BC,[8] or possibly earlier."
While jew enter in the holly land 2 millennium BC only for few decade and then left for Cairo,Egypt.

Why are you thinking that I will believe idiot like you who is full of lies.

Not only Greek was in Holly Land before Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic was there too, now Arabic is new form of Aramaic.
Means eurushalem, Hierousalem, Jerusalem all these pronunciation carrying word pronounce "Salem, Salam, Shalam came from Arabic/Aramaic connection and sound like Hebrew enriched itself from these languages after moving into holly land.
Aramaic "The Aramaic alphabet was widely adopted for other languages and is ancestral to the Hebrew, Syriac and Arabic alphabets. During its approximately 3,100 years of written history,[3] Aramaic has served variously as a language of administration of empires, as a language of divine worship and religious study, and as the spoken tongue of a number of Semitic peoples from the Near East ."

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

Jews are the indigenous people of the Holy Land...in fact it's thanks to us that it's even called the Holy Land. The only one who is a transit-er or invader or vagrant is YOU, who have stolen a huge chunk of India from the indigenous Hindus.

Are hindu or jew?
Facts are jew are invader from USA now, and in history from Iraq.

 

[Shusha]

Ok Shusha I understand what you are trying to say...

The europeans who founded the state of Israel inherited the religious heritage of the ancient Jews and the cultural practices and idea of peoplehood associated with that religion and, according to you, this makes them indigenous to Palestine regardless of their DNA.

I understand your argument but that was not what Rocco and Rehmani were discussing.

They were clearly debating the genetic ancestry of Askhenazis:

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

Rehmani
​

No matter what you believe, or understand, or even can prove, there comes a point in time when the predominately immigrant populations transitions to the indigenous population.

​

To be completely fair to Rocco, he's not saying european Jews are not genetic descendants of ancient Jews he's saying the whole issue is irrelevant... because it's in the past, because it "has been overtaken by events".

The reason Rocco tries to minimize the issue of the semitic ancestry of Askhenazis is that deep down his heart he knows it's all a big, pathetic joke that can't even be entertained as a serious idea that's worth of debate by anyone with an IQ above 70.

Genetics and DNA are irrelevant. And ugly. People's rights in this world are not a function of skin color, or genetics or DNA. That is literally the basis of all sorts of bullshit which is nothing more than pseudo-science to justify atrocity.

 

[Shusha]

RoccoR

Seriously, why did you "thank you" Jose' post?! What am I not understanding about your POV here?

 

[Rehmani]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Rehmani, et al,

No matter what you believe, or understand, or even can prove, there comes a point in time when the predominately immigrant populations transitions to the indigenous population.

At one point, the Europeans were the immigrants to North America. It was a time when the various North American Indian tribal populations were indigenous.

Now, while the North American Indian tribal populations are still considered indigenous, most of those tribal populations have been relocated, and certainly, a vast majority of the territories have been assumed by the Europeans (now North Americans) and now the Canadians and Americans are considered indigenous to any outside invaders.

See: Who are indigenous peoples?
UN Factsheet
◈ Considering the diversity of indigenous peoples, an official definition of “indigenous” has not been adopted by any UN-system body.

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

(COMMENT)

This entire discussion about who is indigenous is a "Red Herring" and irrelevant to the current status of the Israelis and Arab Palestinians. The Question of Palestine has been overtaken by events. The Arab Palestinians have to live with the consequences of their political, military and diplomatic efforts → taken directly or by external parties on their behalf.

But the Israelis as a people or culture were invited to establish a Jewish National Home. Whatever view the Arab Palestinians may hold, the agreed upon settlement process is the outcome of a series of actions and steps taken in order to achieve that goal.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sorry Rocco, but your definition of Indigenous people would be fought very strongly by each and every actual indigenous people all over the world.

The UN's lack of definition of the world means absolutely nothing.

The Arab intent in applying that word to themselves in Ancient Canaan and make themselves the ancient people calling themselves Palestinians is as clear as the clearest water anywhere in the world.

The Arabs are the only ethnicity in the world demanding indigenous status over a land they failed to make remain in Muslim hands.

They are SO indigenous, they do not think twice before destroying anything and everything they find which has nothing to do with the Arab Muslim invasion.
They do not bother to say.....this was us.
They simply destroy and destroy.

That is not what any indigenous people in the world would ever do.

That is not what the Muslims were doing before WWI either.

Not even the Europeans have had the disrespect of doing that against all other indigenous people in the past 500 years.

Cool obfuscation.

Its sign of frustration, Means people are loosing the debate, means Jew and their companion are invader means neither legitimate nor indigenous.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Ok Shusha I understand what you are trying to say...

The europeans who founded the state of Israel inherited the religious heritage of the ancient Jews and the cultural practices and idea of peoplehood associated with that religion and, according to you, this makes them indigenous to Palestine regardless of their DNA.

I understand your argument but that was not what Rocco and Rehmani were discussing.

They were clearly debating the genetic ancestry of Askhenazis:

Stop your nonsense and accept the fact that Jew are not indigenous to Holly Land and they are invader or Transit-er or visitor or vagrant.

Rehmani
​

No matter what you believe, or understand, or even can prove, there comes a point in time when the predominately immigrant populations transitions to the indigenous population.

​

To be completely fair to Rocco, he's not saying european Jews are not genetic descendants of ancient Jews he's saying the whole issue is irrelevant... because it's in the past, because it "has been overtaken by events".

The reason Rocco tries to minimize the issue of the semitic ancestry of Askhenazis is that deep down his heart he knows it's all a big, pathetic joke that can't even be entertained as a serious idea that's worth of debate by anyone with an IQ above 70.

What absolute nonsense.

Mizrahi Jews spent 2700 years amongst people outside of Israel. They kept their religion, their culture, and did not disappear when any invaders took over those lands, and those who came and conquered did not suddenly become indigenous to those places after those thousands
of years, any more than the Jews did become the indigenous people of those lands, or ever attempted to call themselves by that word.

Do you know what I am talking about?

Which brings us to Jews who had spent an equal number of years outside of Israel in Europe.

Not only they did not change their religion and culture, unless by force and oppression during the times we know of in history (the same will be true of the Jews in Asia, even before those areas were taken over by the Kurdish or Arab Muslims, they have never called themselves the natives of any of the European Countries they lived in and therefore also the indigenous people to those lands.

BUT.......since so many Christians or Muslims cannot manage to look at Jews and see a human being, then.......

Today, Jews are not the indigenous people of ancient Canaan.
There never was any Jewish History in the area.
There is no archeological evidence of any Temples or Jewish History.
Jews from Europe are indigenous Europeans.
Sepharadim Jews are never mentioned, it must be because they do not exist.
Mizrahi Jews......well.....those really do not exist.

The issue is beyond relevant.

If it weren't, then so many Christians and Muslims would not be lying their heads off and nearly totally, if not totally, wiping out every existence of Jewish history, and attempting to wipe out every Jew in the world as well.


IT IS very relevant, or they would just live without making the amount of fuss they have been making since 1920 about any possible existence or the actual existence of Israel.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

This is RoccoR being lynched and then crucified by an angry, irrational mob for the "crime" of merely recognizing a reality that's in front of his eyes:

"The europeans who founded the state of Israel 70 years ago didn't have a single drop of semitic blood running through their veins.

They were as foreigners in Palestine as Puritans in Massachussets."

Perhaps it's just a coincidence on your part, but the crucifixion imagery is especially disconcerting, considering Jews have been called Christ-killers for centuries.
And even forgetting Mizrahi Jews for the moment, who represent more than half of Jewry, what's so unbelievable about European Jewry being Semitic? You live in Europe, Spain I think. Have you ever been to the Arch of Titus in Rome, which clearly depicts Jewish slaves being brought to Rome in the first century of the Common Era? Have you heard of the historians Philo and Josephus? There were certainly Jews in Europe who were descended from the Jews that used to live in Judea!
As for the Palestinians, many Arab immigrants came to Palestine AFTER the first and second Zionist waves of immigration. This was clearly attested to by Churchill himself. They were attracted to the area by the lucrative job opportunities presented by the Jews, after the Jews had drained the swamps and established farms (or kibbutzinm) and cities. In fact, Sherri once posted a document on this Board, from the 1920's, saying that the population from Palestine was constantly being replenished by nomads from Saudi Arabia. These were not indigenous ppl themselves by a long shot.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Shusha
Oh, give me a break. Rocco is not being lynched by an angry mob. Why does Team Palestine have to be so dramatic all the time? Do you actually believe the false appeal to emotion helps your arguments?

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Besides, as Shusha pointed out, the melodrama from your part is way over-the-top.

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
Perhaps it's just a coincidence on your part, but the crucifixion imagery is especially disconcerting, considering Jews have been called Christ-killers for centuries.

I had a feeling that people had not realized the enormity of what had just happened... hence the crucifixion scene.

The fact that RoccoR, a die-hard Zionist, does not believe in the semitic origin of Askhenazis speaks volumes about the unbelievable absurdity of the claim.

Rocco doesn't like to talk about the genetic origins of the idealizers and founders of the state of Israel and mass arab immigration to Palestine.

Why would a guy who so ardently, so passionately defend the cause of a safe haven for Jews in the Middle East, why would such a guy refrain from advocating these two zionist dogmas?

Why does a knowledgeable poster like RoccoR feel uncomfortable defending these two propositions that would tremendously advance the zionist cause, despite Shusha's objetions?

Because RoccoR knows the semitic origin of Askhenazis and the mass immigration of Arabs into Palestine in the last 200 years are two myths of the zionist movement.

He prefers not to voice his objection outloud, in a direct, open, blatant manner because he does not want to provide "ammunition" to the oppostion, but if you take your time to carefully analyze Rocco's participation in the discussions you'll notice a consistent pattern:

Everytime teddyearp, Coyote, ForeverYoung, Sixties Fan, Old Man Clanton among others start talking about "semitic" Askhenazis and arab mass immigration he immediately withdraws from the debate.

 

[José]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
By the way, I took a DNA test. Although it confirmed that I'm 100% European, there were also genetic markers indicating that I'm descended from ppl who originally came from the Middle East area.

First of all I have to praise in the most enthusiastic terms possible, ForeverYoung's almost unbelievable honesty.

He took his DNA test expecting to find the confirmation of his lifelong hope and belief that he was the descendant of palestinian Jews who moved to Europe centuries ago fleeing the roman onslaught.

What prevented ForeverYoung from lying to the entire Board about the results of his genetic test?

Absolutely nothing...

The only thing standing between the DNA results and a big lie was is moral integrity, the righteous nature of his character, his honesty...

This almost unbelievable sincerity deserves a standing ovation.

If everybody had half of ForeverYoung's integrity and compromise with the truth, the internet message boards would not be so full of PHds, nuclear physicists, tycoons and multimillionaires.

Having praised his sincerity enough, I have to say his DNA test proved me right.

We had numerous debates about the origin of the european jewish population and he used to say:

"I'm a Cohen, I'm this, I'm that..."​

And his DNA test said he is exactly what I said he was: an european of jewish faith.

The results of his DNA test were such a disapointment to him he even felt the need to focus his attention on the RESIDUAL VESTIGES of semitic DNA, the microscopic remnants of a tiny number of ancestors from the Middle East that are also shared by Europe's gentile population.

Any christian european who took a DNA test would also find microscopic genetic markers from the Middle East area so they mean absolutely nothing.

And I say these words feeling a world of sorrow for him...

Stressing these genetic markers was his way to cope with the tremendous disillusionment and sadness his DNA test brought him just like Di Caprio desperately clunging to the pieces of wood floating around the Titanic.

So I say this with an extremely heavy heart, I feel sympathy for him.

The online world is often a callous world where a tiny minority of psychopaths mock even the passing of other people's relatives... if you can even imagine that... But I refuse to be like that.

FY is a good guy and I feel sorry his illusions were shattered by his DNA test.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Originally posted by ForeverYoung436
By the way, I took a DNA test. Although it confirmed that I'm 100% European, there were also genetic markers indicating that I'm descended from ppl who originally came from the Middle East area.

First of all I have to praise in the most enthusiastic terms possible, ForeverYoung's almost unbelievable honesty.

He took his DNA test expecting to find the confirmation of his lifelong hope and belief that he was the descendant of palestinian Jews who moved to Europe centuries ago fleeing the roman onslaught.

What prevented ForeverYoung from lying to the entire Board about the results of his genetic test?

Absolutely nothing...

The only thing standing between the DNA results and a big lie was is moral integrity, the righteous nature of his character, his honesty...

This almost unbelievable sincerity deserves a standing ovation.

If everybody had half of ForeverYoung's integrity and compromise with the truth, the internet message boards would not be so full of PHds, nuclear physicists, tycoons and multimillionaires.

Having praised his sincerity enough, I have to say his DNA test proved me right.

We had numerous debates about the origin of the european jewish population and he used to say:

"I'm a Cohen, I'm this, I'm that..."​

And his DNA test said he is exactly what I said he was: an european of jewish faith.

The results of his DNA test were such a disapointment to him he even felt the need to focus his attention on the RESIDUAL VESTIGES of semitic DNA, the microscopic remnants of a tiny number of ancestors from the Middle East that are also shared by Europe's gentile population.

Any christian european who took a DNA test would also find microscopic genetic markers from the Middle East area so they mean absolutely nothing.

And I say these words feeling a world of sorrow for him...

Stressing these genetic markers was his way to cope with the tremendous disillusionment and sadness his DNA test brought him just like Di Caprio desperately clunging to the pieces of wood floating around the Titanic.

So I say this with an extremely heavy heart, I feel sympathy for him.

The online world is often a callous world where a tiny minority of psychopaths mock even the passing of other people's relatives... if you can even imagine that... But I refuse to be like that.

FY is a good guy and I feel sorry his illusions were shattered by his DNA test.

Thank you for your compliments. To set matters straight though:

1) You keep on showing my avatar. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the picture is of the actor Anthony Michael Hall. My complexion is a bit darker than that, as was my hair (before most of it fell out).
2) I didn't mention my Kohen status this time, because I would have to take a separate test for that. The results of that test would probably also prove what I already know.
3) I don't feel sorrow in the least. The results are exactly what I expected, including what the genetic markers say--that my ancestors came from the Middle East.
4) You didn't address any of my other points, such as Shirley Temper, the Palestinian poster child.
5) You never told us that you were either a micro-biologist or anthropologist. That's probably how you know with such precise certainty that all Ashkenazi Jews aren't descended from the ancient Judeans. Can you please tell us, in your very expert opinion, who the Mizrahi or Sephardi Jews are descended from?

 

[Shusha]

...does not believe in the semitic origin of Askhenazis speaks volumes about the unbelievable absurdity of the claim.

Once again, this whole discussion about genetics is absurd and disgusting. Once again, this type of genetic questioning has been used elsewhere in the world as an excuse to commit atrocities. And once again, the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples does not require a genetic test. (Because its abhorrent to even suggest such a thing).

Membership in a group of Indigenous Peoples is tested and measured by two things: 1. self-identification. 2. acceptance in the group. These are, and should be, tests and measures based on shared culture and identity. There is clearly, obviously, a shared sense of identity between Jewish people all over the world and between all Jewish people and the homeland on which the Jewish people originated.

And, what other people in the world are subjected to the suggestion that in order to have self-determination in their OBVIOUS CULTURAL homeland that they must submit to GENETIC TESTING?! Is anyone suggesting the Catalans can't have self-determination because they are not sufficiently separate from the Spanish? Is anyone suggesting the Kurds need to be put through a genetic lab? Is there a demand that Tibetans prove they aren't really just Chinese? Or that Western Saharans are a sufficiently distinct genetic group to be worthy of self-determination?

Further (!), this blind, stupid obsession with ONLY the Ashkenazi portion of the wide and long Jewish Diaspora just reeks.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Shusha, José, et al,

Ah yes, those little response buttons are a bit confusing at times.

RoccoR

Seriously, why did you "thank you" Jose' post?! What am I not understanding about your POV here?

(COMMENT)

I thanked José because he expressed himself with a constructive manner. I may not always agree with someone, but I appreciate all forthright contributions.

I realize that there is just an inordinate number of ways to view the Question (of Who are Indigenous Peoples?). (There is even a debate on the Question of "People" and Peoples." AND When the issue is expanded to the controversial topic of "People who inhabited a land (1) before it was conquered by colonial societies and who (2) consider themselves distinct from the societies currently governing those territories," then the discussion really jumps the rails. When we look at the Middle East, one has to ask the questions:

◈ How many times were the various territories in the Middle East subject to the political expansionist policies that sought to extend or maintain its control over the existing people, for economic or political gain; as well as commerical opportunities?

◈ Who were the original indigenous populations before the any of the Empires extended control over the territories of the Middle East?​

One thing we know for sure is that all the parties, with some gain to be had, over the Question of Palestine, shape, craft, mold and interpret anything and everything in order to establish some pre-existing claim and invalidate their opponents claim. I see that understanding in the comment by José.

We must remember that if the contemporary conflict starting with the establishment of Israel in 1948 continues on until 2948 (a millennium-long war), the1948 Israel will have secured an autonomous Jewish Land for only one third the time that the Ancient Egyptians fought and defended their Empire (3000 BC to 30 BC - the death of Cleopatra VII Philopator). We need to put this struggle and argument into perspective.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Shusha, José, et al,

Ah yes, those little response buttons are a bit confusing at times.

RoccoR

Seriously, why did you "thank you" Jose' post?! What am I not understanding about your POV here?

(COMMENT)

I thanked José because he expressed himself with a constructive manner. I may not always agree with someone, but I appreciate all forthright contributions.

I realize that there is just an inordinate number of ways to view the Question (of Who are Indigenous Peoples?). (There is even a debate on the Question of "People" and Peoples." AND When the issue is expanded to the controversial topic of "People who inhabited a land (1) before it was conquered by colonial societies and who (2) consider themselves distinct from the societies currently governing those territories," then the discussion really jumps the rails. When we look at the Middle East, one has to ask the questions:

◈ How many times were the various territories in the Middle East subject to the political expansionist policies that sought to extend or maintain its control over the existing people, for economic or political gain; as well as commerical opportunities?

◈ Who were the original indigenous populations before the any of the Empires extended control over the territories of the Middle East?​

One thing we know for sure is that all the parties, with some gain to be had, over the Question of Palestine, shape, craft, mold and interpret anything and everything in order to establish some pre-existing claim and invalidate their opponents claim. I see that understanding in the comment by José.

We must remember that if the contemporary conflict starting with the establishment of Israel in 1948 continues on until 2948 (a millennium-long war), the1948 Israel will have secured an autonomous Jewish Land for only one third the time that the Ancient Egyptians fought and defended their Empire (3000 BC to 30 BC - the death of Cleopatra VII Philopator). We need to put this struggle and argument into perspective.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ How many times were the various territories in the Middle East subject to the political expansionist policies that sought to extend or maintain its control over the existing people, for economic or political gain; as well as commerical opportunities?

Palestine had been conquered and occupied many times. However, each conquest was not a new country with a whole new population. It was not a list of different countries. It was merely different periods in Palestine's history. Surely people have come and gone over the centuries. Some stayed and mingled into the original population. However, the Palestinians are an ancient people who go back to the beginning of time.

 

[José]

You're preaching to the choir, Tinmore.

Rocco has been debating the conflict in Palestine with us for almost 10 years now and he never said a word about the so-called massive arab immigration into Palestine to take advantage of jobs offered by the zionists.

We should concentrate our efforts on making Sixties Fan, Coyote, Old Man Clanton and ForeverYoung see the light, not Rocco...

Rocco is a zionist for sure but he believes even zionist propaganda must meet some quality standards and he recognizes the arab mass immigration into Palestine as the total garbage it is.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Originally posted by José
Because RoccoR knows the semitic origin of Askhenazis and the mass immigration of Arabs into Palestine in the last 200 years are two myths of the zionist movement.

He prefers not to voice his objection outloud, in a direct, open, blatant manner because he does not want to provide "ammunition" to the oppostion, but if you take your time to carefully analyze Rocco's participation in the discussions you'll notice a consistent pattern:

Everytime teddyearp, Coyote, ForeverYoung, Sixties Fan, Old Man Clanton among others start talking about "semitic" Askhenazis and arab mass immigration he immediately withdraws from the debate.

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ Shusha, José, et al,

Ah yes, those little response buttons are a bit confusing at times.

RoccoR

Seriously, why did you "thank you" Jose' post?! What am I not understanding about your POV here?

(COMMENT)

I thanked José because he expressed himself with a constructive manner. I may not always agree with someone, but I appreciate all forthright contributions.

I realize that there is just an inordinate number of ways to view the Question (of Who are Indigenous Peoples?). (There is even a debate on the Question of "People" and Peoples." AND When the issue is expanded to the controversial topic of "People who inhabited a land (1) before it was conquered by colonial societies and who (2) consider themselves distinct from the societies currently governing those territories," then the discussion really jumps the rails. When we look at the Middle East, one has to ask the questions:

◈ How many times were the various territories in the Middle East subject to the political expansionist policies that sought to extend or maintain its control over the existing people, for economic or political gain; as well as commerical opportunities?

◈ Who were the original indigenous populations before the any of the Empires extended control over the territories of the Middle East?​

One thing we know for sure is that all the parties, with some gain to be had, over the Question of Palestine, shape, craft, mold and interpret anything and everything in order to establish some pre-existing claim and invalidate their opponents claim. I see that understanding in the comment by José.

We must remember that if the contemporary conflict starting with the establishment of Israel in 1948 continues on until 2948 (a millennium-long war), the1948 Israel will have secured an autonomous Jewish Land for only one third the time that the Ancient Egyptians fought and defended their Empire (3000 BC to 30 BC - the death of Cleopatra VII Philopator). We need to put this struggle and argument into perspective.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ How many times were the various territories in the Middle East subject to the political expansionist policies that sought to extend or maintain its control over the existing people, for economic or political gain; as well as commerical opportunities?

Palestine had been conquered and occupied many times. However, each conquest was not a new country with a whole new population. It was not a list of different countries. It was merely different periods in Palestine's history. Surely people have come and gone over the centuries. Some stayed and mingled into the original population. However, the Palestinians are an ancient people who go back to the beginning of time.

WRONG.

Because you would have to apply this methodology to everywhere in the world, and guess what?

You will never do it. Only to "Palestine".

 

[Sixties Fan]

You're preaching to the choir, Tinmore.

Rocco has been debating the conflict in Palestine with us for almost 10 years now and he never said a word about the so-called massive arab immigration into Palestine to take advantage of jobs offered by the zionists.

We should concentrate our efforts on making Sixties Fan, Coyote, Old Man Clanton and ForeverYoung see the light, not Rocco...

Rocco is a zionist for sure but he believes even zionist propaganda must meet some quality standards and he recognizes the arab mass immigration into Palestine as the total garbage it is.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Originally posted by José
Because RoccoR knows the semitic origin of Askhenazis and the mass immigration of Arabs into Palestine in the last 200 years are two myths of the zionist movement.

He prefers not to voice his objection outloud, in a direct, open, blatant manner because he does not want to provide "ammunition" to the oppostion, but if you take your time to carefully analyze Rocco's participation in the discussions you'll notice a consistent pattern:

Everytime teddyearp, Coyote, ForeverYoung, Sixties Fan, Old Man Clanton among others start talking about "semitic" Askhenazis and arab mass immigration he immediately withdraws from the debate.

What an amazing pudding you have cooked.

No proofs of anything you said. Just words, and the ones in red are very underwhelming.

Show some proof to the pudding.