The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[rylah]

The Palestinians were not Arabs from Arabia. I dont know why that lie keeps getting repeated.

It keeps getting repeated because it is accurate and a useful shorthand about the meaning of indigeneity. People belonging to an invading, conquering, colonizing, culture (no matter how many centuries have passed since the conquest) are not indigenous.

Why do you worry about it so much, since it affects their RIGHTS not at all?

Like calling Jews who immigrated to Israel Europeans is a useful shorthand? Come on Shusha. You know darn well that is NOT what iths shorthand for...it is nothing more than a means of separating them out as non native invaders. The "other". And it absolutely affects their rights in the same manner as referring to Jews as Europeans.

Invaders, as the Arabs are, or indigenous, the fact continues to be that when the Jews were ready to reconstitute their Nation on their ancestral land they were more than ready to accept leaving side by side with the Muslims who have been there for 1300 years.

Not so with the Arabs, who saw it as a Muslim land only, and still see it as Muslim land only, taking away as much land as they could from 1920 to 1948 from the Jews .

Were Jews given the right to their holy sites during 1948-1967?
Are they allowed to live in TrasJordan? In Gaza? As they did for thousands of years?

Jews give the Muslims and Christians and all others freedom of worship and visiting their holy sites.

The same has never been true of Muslims, not only now, but for much of the 1300 years before the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate.

At one time the Jews were invaders of a pre existing culture. Be careful who you term invaders.

Rightful inheritors, conquerors, not invaders.
The "pre-existing" culture spoke Hebrew.

The term for invaders in Hebrew is - 'Palestinians'.

 

[rylah]

That is the DNA test YOU want to believe in, not the ones the Palestinians will never put themselves through.

We are talking about over 3000 years ago. The Philistines, Egypt, Israel, etc.

You want to talk about invasion and migration for the Palestinians ?

in the 7th century CE the Kurdish Muslims invaded and defeated the Byzantine.
After that, the Arab Muslims invaded.
After that, whichever Muslims wanted to Migrate into any of the conquered areas, did so.

That goes for any part outside of Arabia, what is known now as the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Spain.

One only has to look at the culture and language spoken in many of the modern countries to find out that everywhere the Muslim Kurds, and Moors invaded, the Arabs followed, migrated.

But not before Islam was founded.

No history of many Arabs in Canaan, no tribes, no nation, no history.

And if you have not noticed, Palestinians identify themselves as Arabs, not as Amorites, Canaanites, etc....

Here is a list of Canaanite Kings. For some reason, the Palestinians do NOT identify with any of them, or with any of the tribes which made up ancient Canaan:

And for some reason, most Palestinians will identify with a tribe which comes from Arabia, including Abbas, Arafat and all the Arab leaders and the tribes one finds in Gaza and in areas A and B, and even the Arabs living in Area C, or in Israel.
------

Names of Canaanite kings or other figures mentioned in historiography or known through archaeology:

Confirmed archaeologically

• Niqmaddu I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Yaqarum I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Ammittamru I of Ugarit (Amarna letters)
• Niqmaddu II of Ugarit (Amarna letters) (1349–1315 BC)
• Arhalba of Ugarit (1315–1313 BC)
• Niqmepa of Ugarit (1313–1260 BC)
• Ammittamru II of Ugarit (1260–1235 BC)
• Ibiranu of Ugarit (1235–1220 BC)
• Ammurapi of Ugarit (1215–1185 BC)
• Aziru, ruler of Amurru (Amarna letters)
• Labaya, lord of Shechem (Amarna letters)
• Abdikheba, mayor of Jerusalem (Amarna letters)
• Šuwardata, mayor of Qiltu (Amarna letters)

Hebrew Bible and other historiography

• Canaan, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6)
• Sidon, firstborn son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Heth, son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Cronos (Ilus), founder of Byblos according to Sanchuniathon
• Mamre, an Amorite chieftain (Gen. 13:18)
• Makamaron, king of Canaan (Jubilees 46:6)
• Sihon, king of Amorites (Deut 1:4)
• Og, king of Bashan (Deut 1:4)
• Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem (Josh. 10:1)
• Debir, king of Eglon (Josh. 10:3)
• Jabin, name of two kings of Hazor (Josh. 11:1; Judges 5:6)

Rulers of Tyre

• Abibaal 990–978 BC
• Hiram I 978–944 BC
• Baal-Eser I (Balbazer I) 944–927 BC
• Abdastartus 927–918 BC
• Methusastartus 918–906 BC
• Astarymus 906–897 BC
• Phelles 897–896 BC
• Eshbaal I 896–863 BC
• Baal-Eser II (Balbazer II) 863–829 BC
• Mattan I 829–820 BC
• Pygmalion 820–774 BC
• Eshbaal II 750–739 BC
• Hiram II 739–730 BC
• Mattan II 730–729 BC
• Elulaios 729 694 BC
• Abd Melqart 694–680 BC
• Baal I 680–660 BC
• Tyre may have been under control of Assyria and/or Egypt for 70 years
• Eshbaal III 591–573 BC—Carthage became independent of Tyre in 574 BC
• Baal II 573–564 BC (under Babylonian overlords)
• Yakinbaal 564 BC
• Chelbes 564–563 BC
• Abbar 563–562 BC
• Mattan III and Ger Ashthari 562–556 BC
• Baal-Eser III 556–555 BC
• Mahar-Baal 555–551 BC
• Hiram III 551–532 BC
• Mattan III (under Persian Control)
• Boulomenus
• Abdemon c.420–411 BC

Canaan - Wikipedia

The Palestinians have been subject to multiple DNA studies so I don’t know what you are talking about. Either you believe it or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose just the bits you agree with.

But , that is exactly what you have been doing.

Exactly how? What DNA studies am I picking bits from?

And since your knowledge of the issue is usually nil......and you won't even comment on how come the Palestinians cannot identify with any of the Canaanite tribes, but have been able to identify with the ones from Arabia .........

Since I find your knowledge to be little more than pro-Israeli propaganda you will have to excuse me for not taking what you say seriously. What genetic studies support your claim?

You already posted a study saying that Palestinians were close in DNA to Jews.

The point is that the study you pointed out to cannot be confirmed by any other study.

Was Israel allowed to look at the samples, know who the Palestinians were and conduct the same test on them to get the same result?

The answer is no.

There is no conclusive study, outside those who are pro Palestinians, who will say that most Palestinians have DNA closer to the Jews than to the Arabs.

And that is a fact.

The scientists were not pro (or anti) Palestinian.
Why are you trying to politicize the science?

You don't know, You're the one bringing DNA into a political discussion,
now complain about politicizing science.

Am I the only one noticing how DNA always ends up to be the last resort of the
"Palestinians I don't know who, but not Jews" band?

 

[rylah]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

If they are not just Arabs what else are they? What other culture do they possess? What other cultural markers do they possess? What other identity do they have? What languages do they speak? What religions do they follow? What cultural life events? Holidays? Laws? Customs? Clothing?

They are Arabs. Only Arabs.

I would say that the Tamimi clan is from Bosnia, but possibly mixed with the Arabs for the past 100 years since they migrated to the area of the Mandate.

The Greek Orthodox never called themselves Palestinians. They still do not.

The Druze do not see themselves as Palestinians.

And there would be some Jews who chose to move to Gaza finding love there and converted.

Besides those, as Rylah has shown before, most clans have roots in Arabia for thousands of years as they themselves say.

The Tamimi tribe is the royal tribe of Qatar.
And one of the largest and most powerful of the Arabian tribes

 

[rylah]

Here's a curious question,

how come Jews who returned from the 4 corners of the world,
including the Arab speaking Jews, Must'arbim, and they all could properly pronounce the names of the land,
while the local Arabs after 1400 of occupation still can't?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

 

[rylah]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

So the Jerusalem Talmud is in in Hebrew, while the Babylonian Talmud is in Aramaic? Or am I going crazy thinking I learned the Talmud in Aramaic back in high-school?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

So the Jerusalem Talmud is in in Hebrew, while the Babylonian Talmud is in Aramaic? Or am I going crazy thinking I learned the Talmud in Aramaic back in high-school?

If this is true, then Hebrew was still spoken and studied in the Holy Land way, way later than I thought.

 

[Rehmani]

The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?Discussion in 'Israel and Palestine' started by Coyote, Dec 27, 2015.
Who are the indiginous people(s) of the Palestine region?

1. The people who currently identify as Jewish, regardless of where they were born
2. The people who currently identify as Palestinian, regardless of where they were born
3. Any people who aren't Muslim
4. Any people who aren't Jewish
5. People of various religions, who's ancestors have lived there for hundreds of years.

• This voting can not be correct about Palestine because still a lot of Muslim don't use Internet. If some used but they don't used those sites or forum have support or leaning to israel.
• As long as it is concern; Who is indigenous? then I will say we should know the meaning of indigenous/native. "(There is a very important difference between native and indigenous plant species. ... Well native means that the plant is native to anywhere in Australia. But indigenous means that it comes from a certain area, like the Grampians or even more specific such as one valley.Sep 2, 2013, Google)". Means if you consider jew indigenous then Arab are native and indigenous too.

 

[Rehmani]

Labelling Arab Muslim "Palestinians" an indigenous peoples stretches the definition of the term far past breaking point:

“Indigenous communities, peoples and nations are those which, having a historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies that developed on their territories, consider themselves distinct from other sectors of the societies now prevailing on those territories, or parts of them. They form at present non-dominant sectors of society and are determined to preserve, develop and transmit to future generations their ancestral territories, and their ethnic identity, as the basis of their continued existence as peoples, in accordance with their own cultural patterns, social institutions and legal system.

“This historical continuity may consist of the continuation, for an extended period reaching into the present of one or more of the following factors:

a) Occupation of ancestral lands, or at least of part of them;

b) Common ancestry with the original occupants of these lands;

c) Culture in general, or in specific manifestations (such as religion, living under a tribal system, membership of an indigenous community, dress, means of livelihood, lifestyle, etc.);

d) Language (whether used as the only language, as mother-tongue, as the habitual means of communication at home or in the family, or as the main, preferred, habitual, general or normal language);

e) Residence on certain parts of the country, or in certain regions of the world;

f) Other relevant factors.

“On an individual basis, an indigenous person is one who belongs to these indigenous populations through self-identification as indigenous (group consciousness) and is recognized and accepted by these populations as one of its members (acceptance by the group).

“This preserves for these communities the sovereign right and power to decide who belongs to them, without external interference”

Source


A culture of the invading and colonizing peoples, by definition, can not be indigenous.

May be ancestors left behind in Iraq, but There were no ancestors left behind in holly land, they all left to Cairo,Egypt. After Abraham,Isack And Jacob PBUH means jew lived in holly land only( not in Jerusalem) few years. But Arab Pagan always lived in jerusalem, Holly land.

 

[Rehmani]

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

So the Jerusalem Talmud is in in Hebrew, while the Babylonian Talmud is in Aramaic? Or am I going crazy thinking I learned the Talmud in Aramaic back in high-school?

That is how history change its self.
"(Jerusalem. holy city in ancient Palestine, from Greek Hierousalem , from Hebrew Yerushalayim , literally "foundation of peace," from base of yarah "he threw, cast" + shalom "peace." Jerusalem "artichoke" is folk etymology of Italian girasole "sunflowerGoogle)."
But its not means you owned it. As you hardly lived in Holly land in pieces for few hundreds years. From Abraham, Isac and jacob PBUH (few decades) and then left for Egypt for over 1000 years as slave and after Moses you lived hardly may be couple of century and then again you slaved by Babylonian After syrus from persia you got refuge in holly land for couple of century but again you have to left for persia with the blame that you crucified Jesus PBUH and Roman kicked you out.

 

[rylah]

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

So the Jerusalem Talmud is in in Hebrew, while the Babylonian Talmud is in Aramaic? Or am I going crazy thinking I learned the Talmud in Aramaic back in high-school?

That is how history change its self.
"(Jerusalem. holy city in ancient Palestine, from Greek Hierousalem , from Hebrew Yerushalayim , literally "foundation of peace," from base of yarah "he threw, cast" + shalom "peace." Jerusalem "artichoke" is folk etymology of Italian girasole "sunflowerGoogle)."
But its not means you owned it. As you hardly lived in Holly land in pieces for few hundreds years. From Abraham, Isac and jacob PBUH (few decades) and then left for Egypt for over 1000 years as slave and after Moses you lived hardly may be couple of century and then again you slaved by Babylonian After syrus from persia you got refuge in holly land for couple of century but again you have to left for persia with the blame that you crucified Jesus PBUH and Roman kicked you out.

Artichoke??

 

[rylah]

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Interesting, somehow while being busy "disappearing" they also managed to write
the most famous "Palestinian" book, in Hebrew.

Actually, the Talmud is written in Aramaic. The Tanakh (Bible) is in Hebrew though.

Read the page in the video... simple Hebrew.

So the Jerusalem Talmud is in in Hebrew, while the Babylonian Talmud is in Aramaic? Or am I going crazy thinking I learned the Talmud in Aramaic back in high-school?

The Mishna in both Talmuds is mostly Hebrew,
the Aramaic version is called "Galilean Jewish Aramaic", it's the closest language to Hebrew among the semitic languages, and as with any language in use by Jews all was written using Hebrew alphabet.

 

[Kat]

Stop the personal attacks, get back on topic, or leave the thread.

 

[admonit]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

There is no "Palestinians" in Israel, there are Arabs. But once you cross the 1948 armistice lines, the same Arabs suddenly became "Palestinians". "Palestinians" is rather political notion than ethnic one.

 

[tommyboy80]

arabs are terrorist animals

 

[rylah]

arabs are terrorist animals

Are You planning on starting to make sense, or just looking to get banned?

 

[rylah]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ rylah, tommyboy80, et al,

Tommy, you are truly inspiring!

arabs are terrorist animals

Are You planning on starting to make sense, or just looking to get banned?

(COMMENT)

With the right kind of artwork, we could make a T-shirt and matching bumper sticker.

v/r
R