The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

You are following the Torah version of the Exodus and "invasion" by Aaron and those who left Egypt.

What if that did not happen?
What if indeed they were slaves in Egypt, but once Egypt began to crumble they managed to escape and returned to Canaan which was their original homeland?
What if they simply migrated and built communities as tribes are bound to do and and as it has been told, their (and other tribes) were conquered by the Philistines, as it did happen, until David happened to defeat Goliath, or whichever way the Philistines
I believe that I have pointed out that your historians and scientists are nothing but crooks, who would never have come up with those "findings" if it hadn't been that Israel came to be.

I.....do not claim. History and conclusive DNA, does.

And what if they didn’t migrate but invaded? Interesting choices of words. Invaded for some...migrated for others. A bit of a bias showing?

So you suddenly find DNA acceptable? Really? Then I guess you will finally agree that the DNA shows Palestinians more closely related to Jews then to Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula.

That is the DNA test YOU want to believe in, not the ones the Palestinians will never put themselves through.

We are talking about over 3000 years ago. The Philistines, Egypt, Israel, etc.

You want to talk about invasion and migration for the Palestinians ?

in the 7th century CE the Kurdish Muslims invaded and defeated the Byzantine.
After that, the Arab Muslims invaded.
After that, whichever Muslims wanted to Migrate into any of the conquered areas, did so.

That goes for any part outside of Arabia, what is known now as the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Spain.

One only has to look at the culture and language spoken in many of the modern countries to find out that everywhere the Muslim Kurds, and Moors invaded, the Arabs followed, migrated.

But not before Islam was founded.

No history of many Arabs in Canaan, no tribes, no nation, no history.

And if you have not noticed, Palestinians identify themselves as Arabs, not as Amorites, Canaanites, etc....

Here is a list of Canaanite Kings. For some reason, the Palestinians do NOT identify with any of them, or with any of the tribes which made up ancient Canaan:

And for some reason, most Palestinians will identify with a tribe which comes from Arabia, including Abbas, Arafat and all the Arab leaders and the tribes one finds in Gaza and in areas A and B, and even the Arabs living in Area C, or in Israel.
------

Names of Canaanite kings or other figures mentioned in historiography or known through archaeology:

Confirmed archaeologically

• Niqmaddu I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Yaqarum I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Ammittamru I of Ugarit (Amarna letters)
• Niqmaddu II of Ugarit (Amarna letters) (1349–1315 BC)
• Arhalba of Ugarit (1315–1313 BC)
• Niqmepa of Ugarit (1313–1260 BC)
• Ammittamru II of Ugarit (1260–1235 BC)
• Ibiranu of Ugarit (1235–1220 BC)
• Ammurapi of Ugarit (1215–1185 BC)
• Aziru, ruler of Amurru (Amarna letters)
• Labaya, lord of Shechem (Amarna letters)
• Abdikheba, mayor of Jerusalem (Amarna letters)
• Šuwardata, mayor of Qiltu (Amarna letters)

Hebrew Bible and other historiography

• Canaan, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6)
• Sidon, firstborn son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Heth, son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Cronos (Ilus), founder of Byblos according to Sanchuniathon
• Mamre, an Amorite chieftain (Gen. 13:18)
• Makamaron, king of Canaan (Jubilees 46:6)
• Sihon, king of Amorites (Deut 1:4)
• Og, king of Bashan (Deut 1:4)
• Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem (Josh. 10:1)
• Debir, king of Eglon (Josh. 10:3)
• Jabin, name of two kings of Hazor (Josh. 11:1; Judges 5:6)

Rulers of Tyre

• Abibaal 990–978 BC
• Hiram I 978–944 BC
• Baal-Eser I (Balbazer I) 944–927 BC
• Abdastartus 927–918 BC
• Methusastartus 918–906 BC
• Astarymus 906–897 BC
• Phelles 897–896 BC
• Eshbaal I 896–863 BC
• Baal-Eser II (Balbazer II) 863–829 BC
• Mattan I 829–820 BC
• Pygmalion 820–774 BC
• Eshbaal II 750–739 BC
• Hiram II 739–730 BC
• Mattan II 730–729 BC
• Elulaios 729 694 BC
• Abd Melqart 694–680 BC
• Baal I 680–660 BC
• Tyre may have been under control of Assyria and/or Egypt for 70 years
• Eshbaal III 591–573 BC—Carthage became independent of Tyre in 574 BC
• Baal II 573–564 BC (under Babylonian overlords)
• Yakinbaal 564 BC
• Chelbes 564–563 BC
• Abbar 563–562 BC
• Mattan III and Ger Ashthari 562–556 BC
• Baal-Eser III 556–555 BC
• Mahar-Baal 555–551 BC
• Hiram III 551–532 BC
• Mattan III (under Persian Control)
• Boulomenus
• Abdemon c.420–411 BC

Canaan - Wikipedia

The Palestinians have been subject to multiple DNA studies so I don’t know what you are talking about. Either you believe it or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose just the bits you agree with.

But , that is exactly what you have been doing.

Exactly how? What DNA studies am I picking bits from?

And since your knowledge of the issue is usually nil......and you won't even comment on how come the Palestinians cannot identify with any of the Canaanite tribes, but have been able to identify with the ones from Arabia .........

Since I find your knowledge to be little more than pro-Israeli propaganda you will have to excuse me for not taking what you say seriously. What genetic studies support your claim?

You already posted a study saying that Palestinians were close in DNA to Jews.

The point is that the study you pointed out to cannot be confirmed by any other study.

Was Israel allowed to look at the samples, know who the Palestinians were and conduct the same test on them to get the same result?

The answer is no.

There is no conclusive study, outside those who are pro Palestinians, who will say that most Palestinians have DNA closer to the Jews than to the Arabs.

And that is a fact.

 

[Coyote]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

 

[Sixties Fan]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Israel was conquered by the Assyrians. Not "disappeared " . The Israelites did not die away.

Judea still existed. The Jews did not die away.
And let us not forget the Maccabees who defeated the Persians and recreated the Monarchy, 100 years before the Romans showed up.

Where is that map?

 

[Shusha]

My contention is that whenever a territory is conquered, the elites are removed and everyone else stays to be exploited. With this in mind, the same people have remained from the beginning of time. Surely there has been some mixing of populations during all of this turmoil, but the core group of Palestinians have been there forever.

Oh please. That's like saying that the "core group of Americans" have been there forever and have always spoken English.

 

[Shusha]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

Palestine is a name deliberately established by invader conquerers to LITERALLY to erase the homeland of the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

Israel disappeared around 700BC.

Israel did not "disappear". She was invaded and conquered; her people murdered and forcefully removed from the territory. Those people still exist -- as a people! As a thriving, fully surviving and re-constituted people.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

From the article you posted a few pages ago:

Rome involved itself in the region’s affairs in 63 BCE and, after Augustus became emperor, Palestine became a province known as Roman Judea in c. 31 BCE.

Palestine


Why are you assuming that there were TWO separate regions, when Judea is the one which the Romans eventually changed its name into Syria Palestina in135 CE?

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

If they are not just Arabs what else are they? What other culture do they possess? What other cultural markers do they possess? What other identity do they have? What languages do they speak? What religions do they follow? What cultural life events? Holidays? Laws? Customs? Clothing?

They are Arabs. Only Arabs.

 

[Coyote]

And what if they didn’t migrate but invaded? Interesting choices of words. Invaded for some...migrated for others. A bit of a bias showing?

So you suddenly find DNA acceptable? Really? Then I guess you will finally agree that the DNA shows Palestinians more closely related to Jews then to Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula.

That is the DNA test YOU want to believe in, not the ones the Palestinians will never put themselves through.

We are talking about over 3000 years ago. The Philistines, Egypt, Israel, etc.

You want to talk about invasion and migration for the Palestinians ?

in the 7th century CE the Kurdish Muslims invaded and defeated the Byzantine.
After that, the Arab Muslims invaded.
After that, whichever Muslims wanted to Migrate into any of the conquered areas, did so.

That goes for any part outside of Arabia, what is known now as the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Spain.

One only has to look at the culture and language spoken in many of the modern countries to find out that everywhere the Muslim Kurds, and Moors invaded, the Arabs followed, migrated.

But not before Islam was founded.

No history of many Arabs in Canaan, no tribes, no nation, no history.

And if you have not noticed, Palestinians identify themselves as Arabs, not as Amorites, Canaanites, etc....

Here is a list of Canaanite Kings. For some reason, the Palestinians do NOT identify with any of them, or with any of the tribes which made up ancient Canaan:

And for some reason, most Palestinians will identify with a tribe which comes from Arabia, including Abbas, Arafat and all the Arab leaders and the tribes one finds in Gaza and in areas A and B, and even the Arabs living in Area C, or in Israel.
------

Names of Canaanite kings or other figures mentioned in historiography or known through archaeology:

Confirmed archaeologically

• Niqmaddu I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Yaqarum I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Ammittamru I of Ugarit (Amarna letters)
• Niqmaddu II of Ugarit (Amarna letters) (1349–1315 BC)
• Arhalba of Ugarit (1315–1313 BC)
• Niqmepa of Ugarit (1313–1260 BC)
• Ammittamru II of Ugarit (1260–1235 BC)
• Ibiranu of Ugarit (1235–1220 BC)
• Ammurapi of Ugarit (1215–1185 BC)
• Aziru, ruler of Amurru (Amarna letters)
• Labaya, lord of Shechem (Amarna letters)
• Abdikheba, mayor of Jerusalem (Amarna letters)
• Šuwardata, mayor of Qiltu (Amarna letters)

Hebrew Bible and other historiography

• Canaan, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6)
• Sidon, firstborn son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Heth, son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Cronos (Ilus), founder of Byblos according to Sanchuniathon
• Mamre, an Amorite chieftain (Gen. 13:18)
• Makamaron, king of Canaan (Jubilees 46:6)
• Sihon, king of Amorites (Deut 1:4)
• Og, king of Bashan (Deut 1:4)
• Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem (Josh. 10:1)
• Debir, king of Eglon (Josh. 10:3)
• Jabin, name of two kings of Hazor (Josh. 11:1; Judges 5:6)

Rulers of Tyre

• Abibaal 990–978 BC
• Hiram I 978–944 BC
• Baal-Eser I (Balbazer I) 944–927 BC
• Abdastartus 927–918 BC
• Methusastartus 918–906 BC
• Astarymus 906–897 BC
• Phelles 897–896 BC
• Eshbaal I 896–863 BC
• Baal-Eser II (Balbazer II) 863–829 BC
• Mattan I 829–820 BC
• Pygmalion 820–774 BC
• Eshbaal II 750–739 BC
• Hiram II 739–730 BC
• Mattan II 730–729 BC
• Elulaios 729 694 BC
• Abd Melqart 694–680 BC
• Baal I 680–660 BC
• Tyre may have been under control of Assyria and/or Egypt for 70 years
• Eshbaal III 591–573 BC—Carthage became independent of Tyre in 574 BC
• Baal II 573–564 BC (under Babylonian overlords)
• Yakinbaal 564 BC
• Chelbes 564–563 BC
• Abbar 563–562 BC
• Mattan III and Ger Ashthari 562–556 BC
• Baal-Eser III 556–555 BC
• Mahar-Baal 555–551 BC
• Hiram III 551–532 BC
• Mattan III (under Persian Control)
• Boulomenus
• Abdemon c.420–411 BC

Canaan - Wikipedia

The Palestinians have been subject to multiple DNA studies so I don’t know what you are talking about. Either you believe it or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose just the bits you agree with.

But , that is exactly what you have been doing.

Exactly how? What DNA studies am I picking bits from?

And since your knowledge of the issue is usually nil......and you won't even comment on how come the Palestinians cannot identify with any of the Canaanite tribes, but have been able to identify with the ones from Arabia .........

Since I find your knowledge to be little more than pro-Israeli propaganda you will have to excuse me for not taking what you say seriously. What genetic studies support your claim?

You already posted a study saying that Palestinians were close in DNA to Jews.

The point is that the study you pointed out to cannot be confirmed by any other study.

Was Israel allowed to look at the samples, know who the Palestinians were and conduct the same test on them to get the same result?

The answer is no.

There is no conclusive study, outside those who are pro Palestinians, who will say that most Palestinians have DNA closer to the Jews than to the Arabs.

And that is a fact.

The scientists were not pro (or anti) Palestinian. Why are you trying to politicize the science? Is it so threatening to identity to find the Palestinians are not as distantly related as you hoped? This is the weirdest argument. What the studies tend to show is fairly close relationships among many of the peoples in the region. Not some sharp division between Jews and “Arabs” in the area.

There are actually multiple studies looking at various aspects of genetics.

And that is a fact.

 

[Coyote]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

If they are not just Arabs what else are they? What other culture do they possess? What other cultural markers do they possess? What other identity do they have? What languages do they speak? What religions do they follow? What cultural life events? Holidays? Laws? Customs? Clothing?

They are Arabs. Only Arabs.

They are Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

No. Where exactly did I say that? I have always been pretty clear that the Palestinians are an amalgram of many ancient and modern peoples in that region.

But it doesn't MEAN anything. By your definition, anyone can be indigenous anywhere. You render the term meaningless. You make the preservation and protection of specific, distinct cultures irrelevant.

The Irish people of Canada are an amalgam of many people, therefore the Irish are indigenous to Canada. Its utterly ridiculous.

 

[Sixties Fan]

That is the DNA test YOU want to believe in, not the ones the Palestinians will never put themselves through.

We are talking about over 3000 years ago. The Philistines, Egypt, Israel, etc.

You want to talk about invasion and migration for the Palestinians ?

in the 7th century CE the Kurdish Muslims invaded and defeated the Byzantine.
After that, the Arab Muslims invaded.
After that, whichever Muslims wanted to Migrate into any of the conquered areas, did so.

That goes for any part outside of Arabia, what is known now as the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Spain.

One only has to look at the culture and language spoken in many of the modern countries to find out that everywhere the Muslim Kurds, and Moors invaded, the Arabs followed, migrated.

But not before Islam was founded.

No history of many Arabs in Canaan, no tribes, no nation, no history.

And if you have not noticed, Palestinians identify themselves as Arabs, not as Amorites, Canaanites, etc....

Here is a list of Canaanite Kings. For some reason, the Palestinians do NOT identify with any of them, or with any of the tribes which made up ancient Canaan:

And for some reason, most Palestinians will identify with a tribe which comes from Arabia, including Abbas, Arafat and all the Arab leaders and the tribes one finds in Gaza and in areas A and B, and even the Arabs living in Area C, or in Israel.
------

Names of Canaanite kings or other figures mentioned in historiography or known through archaeology:

Confirmed archaeologically

• Niqmaddu I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Yaqarum I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Ammittamru I of Ugarit (Amarna letters)
• Niqmaddu II of Ugarit (Amarna letters) (1349–1315 BC)
• Arhalba of Ugarit (1315–1313 BC)
• Niqmepa of Ugarit (1313–1260 BC)
• Ammittamru II of Ugarit (1260–1235 BC)
• Ibiranu of Ugarit (1235–1220 BC)
• Ammurapi of Ugarit (1215–1185 BC)
• Aziru, ruler of Amurru (Amarna letters)
• Labaya, lord of Shechem (Amarna letters)
• Abdikheba, mayor of Jerusalem (Amarna letters)
• Šuwardata, mayor of Qiltu (Amarna letters)

Hebrew Bible and other historiography

• Canaan, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6)
• Sidon, firstborn son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Heth, son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Cronos (Ilus), founder of Byblos according to Sanchuniathon
• Mamre, an Amorite chieftain (Gen. 13:18)
• Makamaron, king of Canaan (Jubilees 46:6)
• Sihon, king of Amorites (Deut 1:4)
• Og, king of Bashan (Deut 1:4)
• Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem (Josh. 10:1)
• Debir, king of Eglon (Josh. 10:3)
• Jabin, name of two kings of Hazor (Josh. 11:1; Judges 5:6)

Rulers of Tyre

• Abibaal 990–978 BC
• Hiram I 978–944 BC
• Baal-Eser I (Balbazer I) 944–927 BC
• Abdastartus 927–918 BC
• Methusastartus 918–906 BC
• Astarymus 906–897 BC
• Phelles 897–896 BC
• Eshbaal I 896–863 BC
• Baal-Eser II (Balbazer II) 863–829 BC
• Mattan I 829–820 BC
• Pygmalion 820–774 BC
• Eshbaal II 750–739 BC
• Hiram II 739–730 BC
• Mattan II 730–729 BC
• Elulaios 729 694 BC
• Abd Melqart 694–680 BC
• Baal I 680–660 BC
• Tyre may have been under control of Assyria and/or Egypt for 70 years
• Eshbaal III 591–573 BC—Carthage became independent of Tyre in 574 BC
• Baal II 573–564 BC (under Babylonian overlords)
• Yakinbaal 564 BC
• Chelbes 564–563 BC
• Abbar 563–562 BC
• Mattan III and Ger Ashthari 562–556 BC
• Baal-Eser III 556–555 BC
• Mahar-Baal 555–551 BC
• Hiram III 551–532 BC
• Mattan III (under Persian Control)
• Boulomenus
• Abdemon c.420–411 BC

Canaan - Wikipedia

The Palestinians have been subject to multiple DNA studies so I don’t know what you are talking about. Either you believe it or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose just the bits you agree with.

But , that is exactly what you have been doing.

Exactly how? What DNA studies am I picking bits from?

And since your knowledge of the issue is usually nil......and you won't even comment on how come the Palestinians cannot identify with any of the Canaanite tribes, but have been able to identify with the ones from Arabia .........

Since I find your knowledge to be little more than pro-Israeli propaganda you will have to excuse me for not taking what you say seriously. What genetic studies support your claim?

You already posted a study saying that Palestinians were close in DNA to Jews.

The point is that the study you pointed out to cannot be confirmed by any other study.

Was Israel allowed to look at the samples, know who the Palestinians were and conduct the same test on them to get the same result?

The answer is no.

There is no conclusive study, outside those who are pro Palestinians, who will say that most Palestinians have DNA closer to the Jews than to the Arabs.

And that is a fact.

The scientists were not pro (or anti) Palestinian. Why are you trying to politicize the science? Is it so threatening to identity to find the Palestinians are not as distantly related as you hoped? This is the weirdest argument. What the studies tend to show is fairly close relationships among many of the peoples in the region. Not some sharp division between Jews and “Arabs” in the area.

There are actually multiple studies looking at various aspects of genetics.

And that is a fact.

Do post that study again.
And also find me any other study with the same people tested and named which shows that the study you posted before was actually even conducted and actually came out with those conclusions.

That is how scientific I am.

Was there a study conducted on 100 Palestinians ?
When?
Their names?

Which other agencies conducted a genetic test on those same 100 Palestinians which proves that MOST Palestinians are related to the Jewish People.

And.....did you not say that the Palestinians were not Arabs?

 

[Sixties Fan]

That is the DNA test YOU want to believe in, not the ones the Palestinians will never put themselves through.

We are talking about over 3000 years ago. The Philistines, Egypt, Israel, etc.

You want to talk about invasion and migration for the Palestinians ?

in the 7th century CE the Kurdish Muslims invaded and defeated the Byzantine.
After that, the Arab Muslims invaded.
After that, whichever Muslims wanted to Migrate into any of the conquered areas, did so.

That goes for any part outside of Arabia, what is known now as the Middle East, North Africa, and Southern Spain.

One only has to look at the culture and language spoken in many of the modern countries to find out that everywhere the Muslim Kurds, and Moors invaded, the Arabs followed, migrated.

But not before Islam was founded.

No history of many Arabs in Canaan, no tribes, no nation, no history.

And if you have not noticed, Palestinians identify themselves as Arabs, not as Amorites, Canaanites, etc....

Here is a list of Canaanite Kings. For some reason, the Palestinians do NOT identify with any of them, or with any of the tribes which made up ancient Canaan:

And for some reason, most Palestinians will identify with a tribe which comes from Arabia, including Abbas, Arafat and all the Arab leaders and the tribes one finds in Gaza and in areas A and B, and even the Arabs living in Area C, or in Israel.
------

Names of Canaanite kings or other figures mentioned in historiography or known through archaeology:

Confirmed archaeologically

• Niqmaddu I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Yaqarum I of Ugarit (Known from a seal used by Ugaritan Kings)
• Ammittamru I of Ugarit (Amarna letters)
• Niqmaddu II of Ugarit (Amarna letters) (1349–1315 BC)
• Arhalba of Ugarit (1315–1313 BC)
• Niqmepa of Ugarit (1313–1260 BC)
• Ammittamru II of Ugarit (1260–1235 BC)
• Ibiranu of Ugarit (1235–1220 BC)
• Ammurapi of Ugarit (1215–1185 BC)
• Aziru, ruler of Amurru (Amarna letters)
• Labaya, lord of Shechem (Amarna letters)
• Abdikheba, mayor of Jerusalem (Amarna letters)
• Šuwardata, mayor of Qiltu (Amarna letters)

Hebrew Bible and other historiography

• Canaan, son of Ham (Gen. 10:6)
• Sidon, firstborn son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Heth, son of Canaan (Gen. 10:15)
• Cronos (Ilus), founder of Byblos according to Sanchuniathon
• Mamre, an Amorite chieftain (Gen. 13:18)
• Makamaron, king of Canaan (Jubilees 46:6)
• Sihon, king of Amorites (Deut 1:4)
• Og, king of Bashan (Deut 1:4)
• Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem (Josh. 10:1)
• Debir, king of Eglon (Josh. 10:3)
• Jabin, name of two kings of Hazor (Josh. 11:1; Judges 5:6)

Rulers of Tyre

• Abibaal 990–978 BC
• Hiram I 978–944 BC
• Baal-Eser I (Balbazer I) 944–927 BC
• Abdastartus 927–918 BC
• Methusastartus 918–906 BC
• Astarymus 906–897 BC
• Phelles 897–896 BC
• Eshbaal I 896–863 BC
• Baal-Eser II (Balbazer II) 863–829 BC
• Mattan I 829–820 BC
• Pygmalion 820–774 BC
• Eshbaal II 750–739 BC
• Hiram II 739–730 BC
• Mattan II 730–729 BC
• Elulaios 729 694 BC
• Abd Melqart 694–680 BC
• Baal I 680–660 BC
• Tyre may have been under control of Assyria and/or Egypt for 70 years
• Eshbaal III 591–573 BC—Carthage became independent of Tyre in 574 BC
• Baal II 573–564 BC (under Babylonian overlords)
• Yakinbaal 564 BC
• Chelbes 564–563 BC
• Abbar 563–562 BC
• Mattan III and Ger Ashthari 562–556 BC
• Baal-Eser III 556–555 BC
• Mahar-Baal 555–551 BC
• Hiram III 551–532 BC
• Mattan III (under Persian Control)
• Boulomenus
• Abdemon c.420–411 BC

Canaan - Wikipedia

The Palestinians have been subject to multiple DNA studies so I don’t know what you are talking about. Either you believe it or you don’t. You don’t get to pick and choose just the bits you agree with.

But , that is exactly what you have been doing.

Exactly how? What DNA studies am I picking bits from?

And since your knowledge of the issue is usually nil......and you won't even comment on how come the Palestinians cannot identify with any of the Canaanite tribes, but have been able to identify with the ones from Arabia .........

Since I find your knowledge to be little more than pro-Israeli propaganda you will have to excuse me for not taking what you say seriously. What genetic studies support your claim?

You already posted a study saying that Palestinians were close in DNA to Jews.

The point is that the study you pointed out to cannot be confirmed by any other study.

Was Israel allowed to look at the samples, know who the Palestinians were and conduct the same test on them to get the same result?

The answer is no.

There is no conclusive study, outside those who are pro Palestinians, who will say that most Palestinians have DNA closer to the Jews than to the Arabs.

And that is a fact.

The scientists were not pro (or anti) Palestinian. Why are you trying to politicize the science? Is it so threatening to identity to find the Palestinians are not as distantly related as you hoped? This is the weirdest argument. What the studies tend to show is fairly close relationships among many of the peoples in the region. Not some sharp division between Jews and “Arabs” in the area.

There are actually multiple studies looking at various aspects of genetics.

And that is a fact.

Multiple studies.

Please, post the link to each one of them.

 

[Coyote]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

From the article you posted a few pages ago:

Rome involved itself in the region’s affairs in 63 BCE and, after Augustus became emperor, Palestine became a province known as Roman Judea in c. 31 BCE.

Palestine


Why are you assuming that there were TWO separate regions, when Judea is the one which the Romans eventually changed its name into Syria Palestina in135 CE?

I am not assuming anything. I looked at a map. Why is ancient terminology such a big deal?

 

[Shusha]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

If they are not just Arabs what else are they? What other culture do they possess? What other cultural markers do they possess? What other identity do they have? What languages do they speak? What religions do they follow? What cultural life events? Holidays? Laws? Customs? Clothing?

They are Arabs. Only Arabs.

They are Palestinians.

Meaningless. Unless you can make it distinct from all other peoples. What makes one distinctively Palestinian? At what point in time did that distinction come to be?

 

[Shusha]

Why is ancient terminology such a big deal?

Because it is deliberately used to erase Jewish history and create a FALSE history for the Arab Palestinians.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The Palestinians aren’t just Arabs.

If they are not just Arabs what else are they? What other culture do they possess? What other cultural markers do they possess? What other identity do they have? What languages do they speak? What religions do they follow? What cultural life events? Holidays? Laws? Customs? Clothing?

They are Arabs. Only Arabs.

I would say that the Tamimi clan is from Bosnia, but possibly mixed with the Arabs for the past 100 years since they migrated to the area of the Mandate.

The Greek Orthodox never called themselves Palestinians. They still do not.

The Druze do not see themselves as Palestinians.

And there would be some Jews who chose to move to Gaza finding love there and converted.

Besides those, as Rylah has shown before, most clans have roots in Arabia for thousands of years as they themselves say.

 

[Coyote]

Why is ancient terminology such a big deal?

Because it is deliberately used to erase Jewish history and create a FALSE history for the Arab Palestinians.

In this case it is not false. Palestine is a term for the area that has been in use for several thousand years.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Because Palestine is a long standing historic term for the region.

So is Israel.

Not really.

Israel disappeared around 700BC. Almost 3000 years ago. Roman maps referenced Palestine and Judea as separate regions. I think historically Palestine Has long been used,

From the article you posted a few pages ago:

Rome involved itself in the region’s affairs in 63 BCE and, after Augustus became emperor, Palestine became a province known as Roman Judea in c. 31 BCE.

Palestine


Why are you assuming that there were TWO separate regions, when Judea is the one which the Romans eventually changed its name into Syria Palestina in135 CE?

I am not assuming anything. I looked at a map. Why is ancient terminology such a big deal?

View attachment 250490

Yes, and this map is from circa 100 CE and not 2000 BCE or 1000 BCE.

Here is a 9th Centure BCE map:

Approximate map of the Iron Age kingdom of Israel (blue) and kingdom of Judah(yellow), with their neighbors (tan) (9th century BCE)

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia

 

[WelfareQueen]

It keeps getting repeated because it is accurate and a useful shorthand about the meaning of indigeneity. People belonging to an invading, conquering, colonizing, culture (no matter how many centuries have passed since the conquest) are not indigenous.

Why do you worry about it so much, since it affects their RIGHTS not at all?

Like calling Jews who immigrated to Israel Europeans is a useful shorthand? Come on Shusha. You know darn well that is NOT what iths shorthand for...it is nothing more than a means of separating them out as non native invaders. The "other". And it absolutely affects their rights in the same manner as referring to Jews as Europeans.

Invaders, as the Arabs are, or indigenous, the fact continues to be that when the Jews were ready to reconstitute their Nation on their ancestral land they were more than ready to accept leaving side by side with the Muslims who have been there for 1300 years.

Not so with the Arabs, who saw it as a Muslim land only, and still see it as Muslim land only, taking away as much land as they could from 1920 to 1948 from the Jews .

Were Jews given the right to their holy sites during 1948-1967?
Are they allowed to live in TrasJordan? In Gaza? As they did for thousands of years?

Jews give the Muslims and Christians and all others freedom of worship and visiting their holy sites.

The same has never been true of Muslims, not only now, but for much of the 1300 years before the Balfour Declaration and the Mandate.

At one time the Jews were invaders of a pre existing culture. Be careful who you term invaders.

Your counter is rather pathetic.

Judaism began in Ancient Canaan. Islam did not.
Jews created a Nation 3000 years ago which stood for about 1000 years. The Muslims built no nation in the area. And the Muslim Arabs even acknowledge in their own Quran, that the land belongs to the Children of Israel, the Jews, when they invaded it.

Do know equate more recent invaders with the Jews who are made of all the tribes in Canaan at the time.

That way, the British are indigenous to the USA and Canada, and Australia and NZ, simply because they took over those lands and the language spoken there happens to be English now.

It isnt pathetic at all. If you are going to label different people invaders then acknowledge your own people were invaders of an earlier people. That is the problem with labels. The people you dislike are labeled "invaders", the ones you like are "migrants". At what exact point in history is one determined to be an "invader" and when do they transition into "indigenous"?

Coyote I applaud you with this thread. You really are trying yo be fair and hear from all sides.