The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[theliq]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Read you history and you will elevate your understanding SIAM

Pretty sure I can run circles around you with respect to actual history.

Don't think so,as I ran the 440 yards in 48.3 when the world record at the time was 46.9 but keep trying...steve

 

[theliq]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Read you history and you will elevate your understanding SIAM

Pretty sure I can run circles around you with respect to actual history.

Anti Zionism by the way is not as you proclaim at the bottom of each of your posts

 

[rylah]

The idea that an invading, colonizing culture BECOMES indigenous by consuming, eliminating and replacing the local culture with their own culture is vile and opposes the very concept of indigeneity.

Find me an "ancient" map showing the Israelite kingdom and I will shine your shoes for a month.
View attachment 222624



No wait, my bad, I can see "Israel", the man; paddling across the Red Sea and soon thereafter he will be da indigenous one,.,.,.,, NO WAIT, he's paddling in the wrong way, hes headed for Ethiopia!!!!!!

My shoes are fine thank You, don't need to bother.

 

[rylah]

They would have to demonstrate that their specific culture (language, religion, legal system, traditions, style of dress, rituals, celebrations, holidays, etc) ORIGINATED in that territory PRIOR to the invasion or colonization of other cultures.

Oh wise one, how many people (%%) prior to your fake invasion spoke Hebrew and Arabic-?

I await your answer.

Hebraic dialects were spoken by a majority of Canaanite people.
Hebrew is the last remaining Canaanite language in common use.

 

[rylah]

Not if you use a proper definition of "indigenous".

Oh Wise One, post the "proper" definition of "indigenous".
Thanks in advance -

“Indigenous communities, peoples and nations are those which, having a historical continuity with pre-invasion and pre-colonial societies that developed on their territories, consider themselves distinct from other sectors of the societies now prevailing on those territories, or parts of them. They form at present non-dominant sectors of society and are determined to preserve, develop and transmit to future generations their ancestral territories, and their ethnic identity, as the basis of their continued existence as peoples, in accordance with their own cultural patterns, social institutions and legal system.

“This historical continuity may consist of the continuation, for an extended period reaching into the present of one or more of the following factors:

a) Occupation of ancestral lands, or at least of part of them;

b) Common ancestry with the original occupants of these lands;

c) Culture in general, or in specific manifestations (such as religion, living under a tribal system, membership of an indigenous community, dress, means of livelihood, lifestyle, etc.);

d) Language (whether used as the only language, as mother-tongue, as the habitual means of communication at home or in the family, or as the main, preferred, habitual, general or normal language);

e) Residence on certain parts of the country, or in certain regions of the world;

f) Other relevant factors.

“On an individual basis, an indigenous person is one who belongs to these indigenous populations through self-identification as indigenous (group consciousness) and is recognized and accepted by these populations as one of its members (acceptance by the group).

“This preserves for these communities the sovereign right and power to decide who belongs to them, without external interference"

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land,which disqualifies your claim,moreover you fled this land(hence the term :Wandering Jew") You may have resided here but you will find your cousins the Semitic Palestinians have more right to this Land...Because most Jews today are converts to Judaism and can never be Semitic because unlike the Palestinians you have no direct lineage to Abraham and I'm sorry Schusa they are the truth and rights of the matter...I'm theliq,Ever Living,Ever Truthful,Ever Fair...steve S., you can wrap it any way you want,but you can never be Semitic...You can be a Zionists,but as much as this Terrorist Cult try to say they are Semitic,this is but another lie...ask the Ultra's they will tell you what you are

Most of today's Jews are direct descendants of Levantine people.
Especially the Israelites of today, no other nation has produced anything as closely outstanding as the Jews - the land has kept all the best gifts for her true children.

 

[montelatici]

You sound like Hitler and his aryans.

 

[rylah]

You sound like Hitler and his aryans.

Hitler was a suicidal psychopath like the Jihadi ilk, both lost major wars trying to subjugate other nations, both set to dominate the world and eradicate the Jews.

Both ended up humiliated.

 

[rylah]

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Arab Palestinians, as is typical for them, use parts of the resolutions, documents or "the law" to support their incorrect positions while conveniently ignoring other parts of the same resolutions, documents or "law".

Case in point:

In 1986 it was further added that any individual who identified himself or herself as indigenous and was accepted by the group or the community as one of its members was to be regarded as an indigenous person (E/CN.4/Sub.2/1986/7/Add.4. para.381).

What does that mean, in terms of this question: If the indigeous people are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

It means that uprooting a community and forcing that community to live elsewhere is not relevant to inclusion or exclusion from indigenous status. (Which seems to me to uphold the notion that displacing people is morally incorrect).

And the Arab Palestinians WANT to adopt this idea. Otherwise the "right to return" does not exist.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no question that Dr Said has a strong position and argument on this point. But this position, much like the presentations by Dr Noam Chomsky, is very critics of the Peace process and the Palestinian leadership of Palestinian Authority/Palestinian Liberation Organization. And similarly, both Said and Chomsky have their advanced education and experience in a soft science other than political science or government (one in literature and the other in linguistics).

• Professor Edward Said (1935 - 2003) • Proponent of the political rights of the Arab Palestinian People (See: • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) • Columbia University

(COMMENT)

Neither is sympathetic to the cause of a Jewish National Home, and neither really addresses the impact on the objective goal of establishing a Jewish National Home in a political environment charged by the majority anti-Semitic displeasure of the Arab Palestinian. Neither is representative of a stakeholder, and neither has extended their position into the dilemma of facing into the lamp of the 21st Century political arclight.

While Dr Said's presentation was very professional, it really did not answer any of the questions that wrangle the new era politics.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no question that Dr Said has a strong position and argument on this point. But this position, much like the presentations by Dr Noam Chomsky, is very critics of the Peace process and the Palestinian leadership of Palestinian Authority/Palestinian Liberation Organization. And similarly, both Said and Chomsky have their advanced education and experience in a soft science other than political science or government (one in literature and the other in linguistics).

• Professor Edward Said (1935 - 2003) • Proponent of the political rights of the Arab Palestinian People (See: • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) • Columbia University

(COMMENT)

Neither is sympathetic to the cause of a Jewish National Home, and neither really addresses the impact on the objective goal of establishing a Jewish National Home in a political environment charged by the majority anti-Semitic displeasure of the Arab Palestinian. Neither is representative of a stakeholder, and neither has extended their position into the dilemma of facing into the lamp of the 21st Century political arclight.

While Dr Said's presentation was very professional, it really did not answer any of the questions that wrangle the new era politics.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice deflection.

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no question that Dr Said has a strong position and argument on this point. But this position, much like the presentations by Dr Noam Chomsky, is very critics of the Peace process and the Palestinian leadership of Palestinian Authority/Palestinian Liberation Organization. And similarly, both Said and Chomsky have their advanced education and experience in a soft science other than political science or government (one in literature and the other in linguistics).

• Professor Edward Said (1935 - 2003) • Proponent of the political rights of the Arab Palestinian People (See: • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) • Columbia University

(COMMENT)

Neither is sympathetic to the cause of a Jewish National Home, and neither really addresses the impact on the objective goal of establishing a Jewish National Home in a political environment charged by the majority anti-Semitic displeasure of the Arab Palestinian. Neither is representative of a stakeholder, and neither has extended their position into the dilemma of facing into the lamp of the 21st Century political arclight.

While Dr Said's presentation was very professional, it really did not answer any of the questions that wrangle the new era politics.

Most Respectfully,
R

Nice deflection.

The deflection robot is at it again. Too programmed to spill the same thing, over and over and over again.

Speak to your master, oh robot, and see if they can add an ability to discuss issues, not just run from them.

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

Edward Said's argument is false and self-contradicting.

His argument is not for indigenous rights, but for rights on the basis of longstanding presence, which by itself doesn't give an indigenous status according to the definition of the UN.

Furthermore he attempts to equate "domination" to "inhabitance", which is in effect a total denial of indigenous rights, and their purpose.

Using his argument Spaniards could claim that they're indigenous Moroccans because they have longer domination over Melila and Ceuta in North Africa, or the USA could claim that they were the indigenous nation of America because they had longer domination of the territory than the Iroquois Confederacy.

Again- longstanding inhabitance or "domination", as he puts it, alone doesn't make a group indigenous, but rather defines it as an invading civilization.

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no question that Dr Said has a strong position and argument on this point. But this position, much like the presentations by Dr Noam Chomsky, is very critics of the Peace process and the Palestinian leadership of Palestinian Authority/Palestinian Liberation Organization. And similarly, both Said and Chomsky have their advanced education and experience in a soft science other than political science or government (one in literature and the other in linguistics).

• Professor Edward Said (1935 - 2003) • Proponent of the political rights of the Arab Palestinian People (See: • International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) • Columbia University

(COMMENT)

Neither is sympathetic to the cause of a Jewish National Home, and neither really addresses the impact on the objective goal of establishing a Jewish National Home in a political environment charged by the majority anti-Semitic displeasure of the Arab Palestinian. Neither is representative of a stakeholder, and neither has extended their position into the dilemma of facing into the lamp of the 21st Century political arclight.

While Dr Said's presentation was very professional, it really did not answer any of the questions that wrangle the new era politics.

Most Respectfully,
R

I have to disagree, he's merely dancing around the fact, that Jews have the main claim based on longstanding presence as well, he merely switches the definitions to go around 3500 years of Jewish history in that territory.

This is not a scientific approach.

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

The bluff is easy to tell when looking at the culture of the group, indigenous people have all of their core cycles and communication systems based on one specific land and its' seasons.

Arabs live by the natural cycle of of Mecca, Jews live by the natural cycles of Canaan.

RoccoR
Edit:
I agree with the part regarding:

• "..the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law."

I would add a long list of all who cooperate under the slogan of "Jews are foreigners in Judea", but that would be pretty much the majority of the UN blocks.
Meanwhile what is important is there's a healthy discussion regarding an official legal claim of the Jewish nation for full sovereignty over Jerusalem.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

Edward Said's argument is false and self-contradicting.

His argument is not for indigenous rights, but for rights on the basis of longstanding presence, which by itself doesn't give an indigenous status according to the definition of the UN.

Furthermore he attempts to equate "domination" to "inhabitance", which is in effect a total denial of indigenous rights, and their purpose.

Using his argument Spaniards could claim that they're indigenous Moroccans because they have longer domination over Melila and Ceuta in North Africa, or the USA could claim that they were the indigenous nation of America because they had longer domination of the territory than the Iroquois Confederacy.

Again- longstanding inhabitance or "domination", as he puts it, alone doesn't make a group indigenous, but rather defines it as an invading civilization.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.

Edward Said gave a list of some of the people who have invaded/conquered/occupied that land. I don't believe that every time a territory falls under new rule everybody moves out and a whole new population moves in. Usually the upper crust is removed and everybody else stays to be exploited. Many people have come and gone but there is a core group of people who have stayed and put down roots. These are the people of the place. Call them the indigenous, the natives, whatever they are the people who belong to that land.

 

[rylah]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

Edward Said's argument is false and self-contradicting.

His argument is not for indigenous rights, but for rights on the basis of longstanding presence, which by itself doesn't give an indigenous status according to the definition of the UN.

Furthermore he attempts to equate "domination" to "inhabitance", which is in effect a total denial of indigenous rights, and their purpose.

Using his argument Spaniards could claim that they're indigenous Moroccans because they have longer domination over Melila and Ceuta in North Africa, or the USA could claim that they were the indigenous nation of America because they had longer domination of the territory than the Iroquois Confederacy.

Again- longstanding inhabitance or "domination", as he puts it, alone doesn't make a group indigenous, but rather defines it as an invading civilization.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.

Edward Said gave a list of some of the people who have invaded/conquered/occupied that land. I don't believe that every time a territory falls under new rule everybody moves out and a whole new population moves in. Usually the upper crust is removed and everybody else stays to be exploited. Many people have come and gone but there is a core group of people who have stayed and put down roots. These are the people of the place. Call them the indigenous, the natives, whatever they are the people who belong to that land.

Yes we call them Jews, have a documented history of inhabitance for 3500 continuous years, who established a distinct civilization centered around that specific land, as Edward Said claimed THERE IS a certainly a stronger claim.

Arabs are simply not indigenous to Palestine, by definition.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indigenous to Palestine?
※→ rylah, et al,

BLUF: We don't truly understand what is meant by "Indigenous Poeple?" What makes one group an Indigenous People and another Group not? If the indigeouspeople are forced to leave on the needs of survival, and then return some number of generations later, are they indigenous or foreign?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I think that most of these "indigenous to Palestine" arguments are seriously flawed; for both the Arab Palestinian and the Jewish People of Israel.

Even in this presentation, the discussion starts with the remembrance of the 20th Century direct support by European collaborator for totalitarianism and the extreme persecution by the Germanic ethnic group themselves.

Download A/RES/61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.pdf (165.85 KB)
​

It is important to remember that the Arab Palestinian believes that they now have a legal position based on the UN Declaration. They have this mistaken idea that the UN Declaration supports what they think is justice for them.

Zionism: Taking A Stand for the Indigenous Rights of Middle Eastern Jews

(REFERENCE)

In 1983 the Working Group on Indigenous Populations (WGIP) enlarged this definition of "indigenous people" (FICN. 41Sub.211983121 Adds. para. 3 79) to include the following criteria:

• (a) they are the descendants of groups, which were in the territory at the time when other groups of different cultures or ethnic origin arrived there;
• (b) precisely because of their isolation from other segments of the country's population they have almost preserved intact the customs and traditions of their ancestors which are similar to those characterized as indigenous;
• (c) they are, even if only formally, placed under a state structure which incorporates national, social and cultural characteristics alien to their own.[/I]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

(COMMENT)[/I]

The global doctrine advocates the moral condemnable of the social injustice of NOT recognizing the right of all peoples to be different → to consider themselves different.

In this case, the Indigenous Peoples (Jews) have suffered from historic injustices by an unfair majority (Arab Palestinians) acting under the cover and color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

Edward Said's argument is false and self-contradicting.

His argument is not for indigenous rights, but for rights on the basis of longstanding presence, which by itself doesn't give an indigenous status according to the definition of the UN.

Furthermore he attempts to equate "domination" to "inhabitance", which is in effect a total denial of indigenous rights, and their purpose.

Using his argument Spaniards could claim that they're indigenous Moroccans because they have longer domination over Melila and Ceuta in North Africa, or the USA could claim that they were the indigenous nation of America because they had longer domination of the territory than the Iroquois Confederacy.

Again- longstanding inhabitance or "domination", as he puts it, alone doesn't make a group indigenous, but rather defines it as an invading civilization.

The Jews were not the first people there nor were they ever the only people there.

Edward Said gave a list of some of the people who have invaded/conquered/occupied that land. I don't believe that every time a territory falls under new rule everybody moves out and a whole new population moves in. Usually the upper crust is removed and everybody else stays to be exploited. Many people have come and gone but there is a core group of people who have stayed and put down roots. These are the people of the place. Call them the indigenous, the natives, whatever they are the people who belong to that land.

Yes we call them Jews, have a documented history of inhabitance for 3500 continuous years, who established a distinct civilization centered around that specific land, as Edward Said claimed THERE IS a certainly a stronger claim.

Arabs are simply not indigenous to Palestine, by definition.

OK, but they were never exclusively there so they have no exclusive claim to the land.