The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for crying out loud!

You are correct in that Israel should not be made to forfeit any territory that was not under Arab Palestinian control. It is under the Permanent Stats of Negotiation.

(COMMENT)

Despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority (PA) \ Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) has "never" established sovereign control of the territory which they demand, the PA \ PLO demand the 1967 border. The PA\PLO defines this border as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967. They claim the Armistice Line is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.

The Armistice Line of 1949 with Jordan is exactly that - with Jordan. It disolved in 1994 with the execution of the Peace Treaty between the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel. The armistice agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel has been signed this evening, 3 April 1949, only remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties (Jordan/Israel) was achieved through a treaty [See Article XII(2)]. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either agreement.

More importantly, should be noted that Article VI(9) stipulates that: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in Articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.

If the Arab Palestinians are going to use the Armistice Demarcation Lines, then they should recognize the flexability. If we look at Article VI(11) we see: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in this article and in article V shall be subject to such rectification as may be agreed upon by the Parties to this Agreement, (NOT the Arab Palestinians) and all such rectifications shall have the same force and effect as if they had been incorporated in full in this General Armistice Agreement.

But I think that everyone understands that the Armistice Agreement dissolved in1995 when the Peace Treaty took effect. The Arab Palestinians should not be held to those conditions.

Most Respectfully,
R

Straw man argument.

Tinmore endlessly empty responses = PRICELESS

I wonder what his motive is. Because he's not convincing any of us with his bullshit.

His reason is the same as all others who were taught that Israel is evil, and the Jews in it just as much.

Christian or Muslim devotion to what their ideologies are all about.
Keeping the Jews in their places, even if it is 6 feet under.

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for crying out loud!

You are correct in that Israel should not be made to forfeit any territory that was not under Arab Palestinian control. It is under the Permanent Stats of Negotiation.

(COMMENT)

Despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority (PA) \ Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) has "never" established sovereign control of the territory which they demand, the PA \ PLO demand the 1967 border. The PA\PLO defines this border as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967. They claim the Armistice Line is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.

The Armistice Line of 1949 with Jordan is exactly that - with Jordan. It disolved in 1994 with the execution of the Peace Treaty between the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel. The armistice agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel has been signed this evening, 3 April 1949, only remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties (Jordan/Israel) was achieved through a treaty [See Article XII(2)]. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either agreement.

More importantly, should be noted that Article VI(9) stipulates that: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in Articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.

If the Arab Palestinians are going to use the Armistice Demarcation Lines, then they should recognize the flexability. If we look at Article VI(11) we see: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in this article and in article V shall be subject to such rectification as may be agreed upon by the Parties to this Agreement, (NOT the Arab Palestinians) and all such rectifications shall have the same force and effect as if they had been incorporated in full in this General Armistice Agreement.

But I think that everyone understands that the Armistice Agreement dissolved in1995 when the Peace Treaty took effect. The Arab Palestinians should not be held to those conditions.

Most Respectfully,
R

Straw man argument.

Tinmore endlessly empty responses = PRICELESS

I wonder what his motive is. Because he's not convincing any of us with his bullshit.

His reason is the same as all others who were taught that Israel is evil, and the Jews in it just as much.

Christian or Muslim devotion to what their ideologies are all about.
Keeping the Jews in their places, even if it is 6 feet under.

He doesn't even know any facts.

They do not care about facts. It is called delegitimization of the other.
And it has been done to the Jewish people and Judaism since an idiot created Christianity.
Which is why we read so many posts where Jews aren't Jews, and they all left the Land, and so on and so forth, since 1948.
Another form of destroying Judaism and Jews.

 

[Mindful]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, for crying out loud!

You are correct in that Israel should not be made to forfeit any territory that was not under Arab Palestinian control. It is under the Permanent Stats of Negotiation.

There is no law that obligated the Israelis to forfeit any territorial holdings, especially since the President of Palestine openly declared the Oslo Accords dissolved.

Israel isn't required to forfeit anything.

(COMMENT)

Despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority (PA) \ Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) has "never" established sovereign control of the territory which they demand, the PA \ PLO demand the 1967 border. The PA\PLO defines this border as the 1949 Armistice Line along with all legal modification thereto up to June 4th, 1967. They claim the Armistice Line is the internationally-recognized border between Israel and the occupied State of Palestine.

The Armistice Line of 1949 with Jordan is exactly that - with Jordan. It disolved in 1994 with the execution of the Peace Treaty between the Government of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and the Government of the State of Israel. The armistice agreement between the Hashemite Jordan Kingdom and Israel has been signed this evening, 3 April 1949, only remained in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties (Jordan/Israel) was achieved through a treaty [See Article XII(2)]. The Arab Palestinians were NOT a party to either agreement.

More importantly, should be noted that Article VI(9) stipulates that: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in Articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.

If the Arab Palestinians are going to use the Armistice Demarcation Lines, then they should recognize the flexability. If we look at Article VI(11) we see: The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in this article and in article V shall be subject to such rectification as may be agreed upon by the Parties to this Agreement, (NOT the Arab Palestinians) and all such rectifications shall have the same force and effect as if they had been incorporated in full in this General Armistice Agreement.

But I think that everyone understands that the Armistice Agreement dissolved in1995 when the Peace Treaty took effect. The Arab Palestinians should not be held to those conditions.

Most Respectfully,
R

The armistice line was between Israeli and Jordanian forces. It had nothing to do with Palestine.

Because there's no such place.

 

[Mindful]

Kudos, Tinmore.

Give a funny when you have no argument.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, so that is true.

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
The Arab Palestinians should not be held to those conditions.

The armistice line was between Israeli and Jordanian forces. It had nothing to do with Palestine.

(COMMENT)

So why is it that the Arab Palestinians want to use the Armistice Lines as a border?

When did the Arab Palestinians assume control over any part of the territory?

It is often the position f the Arab Palestinians that they return to the 4 June 1967 Armistice Lines.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

So why is it that the Arab Palestinians want to use the Armistice Lines as a border?

You are confusing the illegitimate leadership with the Palestinians.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Still waiting...name one mostly Muslim country that does not have significant issues either politicaly, economicaly, and or socialy? Why on EARTH would we want another one. Especially one where groups like Hamas and Fatah have been running them for years with massive corruption.

 

[rylah]

So why is it that the Arab Palestinians want to use the Armistice Lines as a border?

You are confusing the illegitimate leadership with the Palestinians.

No govt, no responsibility, reliance on vague identities.
You see how easy it is to get confused with "Palestinian" nonsense?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So why is it that the Arab Palestinians want to use the Armistice Lines as a border?

You are confusing the illegitimate leadership with the Palestinians.

No govt, no responsibility, reliance on vague identities.
You see how easy it is to get confused with "Palestinian" nonsense?

Indeed, and you are.

 

[rylah]

So why is it that the Arab Palestinians want to use the Armistice Lines as a border?

You are confusing the illegitimate leadership with the Palestinians.

No govt, no responsibility, reliance on vague identities.
You see how easy it is to get confused with "Palestinian" nonsense?

Indeed, and you are.

Did these Arabs ever have an independent state or leadership in historic Palestine before the Jews, maybe a king we all know of?

Everyone know Arabs came from Arabia.
Help me clear the confusion buddy

.....

 

[watchingfromafar]

Did these Arabs ever have an independent state or leadership in historic Palestine before the Jews, maybe a king we all know of?

The Jews buried all their great leaders beyond the river in a land not called Israel" but Cannon. Your true roots are where they bury their great leaders & that place was NOT Palestine.

 

[rylah]

Did these Arabs ever have an independent state or leadership in historic Palestine before the Jews, maybe a king we all know of?

The Jews buried all their great leaders beyond the river in a land not called Israel" but Cannon. Your true roots are where they bury their great leaders & that place was NOT Palestine.

Said who?

 

[theliq]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

 

[Shusha]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

 

[theliq]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,let us be totally honest by the end of the 1800.s it was the Christians who persecuted the Jews most of all...but these Noble sentiments were taken over by a Hard Right Wing Elements of the of the Zionist Organization(let us remember when the first delegation of Zionists went to Palestine they clearly stated "The Bride (Palestine) is Beautiful BUT Married to another(The Palestinians)

Shusha I have a meeting,I will respond to you asap..remind me if you have to...Best Regards steven

 

[Shusha]

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,

So far so good. Having a homeland for a people is good. We agree so far. Have a good meeting, catch up later.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ theliq, Shusha, et al,

You have to be very careful when you talk about "Zionism." That is especially true if you are not Jewish. There are many a widely held → but false beliefs about Zionism, just as there is a misrepresentation of the truth. These are not false beliefs and misrepresented many facts passed-on without a malicious intent. They are what some believe to be true.

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a people and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,let us be totally honest by the end of the 1800.s it was the Christians who persecuted the Jews most of all...but these Noble sentiments were taken over by a Hard Right Wing Elements of the of the Zionist Organization(let us remember when the first delegation of Zionists went to Palestine they clearly stated "The Bride (Palestine) is Beautiful BUT Married to another(The Palestinians)

Shusha I have a meeting,I will respond to you asap..remind me if you have to...Best Regards steven

(COMMENT)

Not all Jews are Zionist. But all Zionist are Jews. There is a distinction here that is important.

Zionism is the national political movement of and for the Jewish people. Some of the embedded ideas that drive Zionism are:

· The right to self-determination.
· The legitimate home of the Jewish people.
· The Jewish people have the right to realize their territorial integrity without having to constantly defend against those that have the opposite belief.
· The Jewish people, have a right to determine their own destiny; - as a free people.​

To be a believer in the religion - Judaism - is a faith-based concept concerning the relationship between a people and the Supreme Being (a deity). They have their own religious customs. But basically, Jewdaism in Religous.

What is the connection between Jews and Zionist? Having said the Judaism is a religion, for nearly 2000 years, the people who believe in the religion are preyed upon by unscrupulous persons of power. Thus the tie-in to Zionism. Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven, a place that they will not be the subject of persecution → generally for wealth and power. Zionism offers the Jew the possibility of a place that they can preserve their culture and practice their religion while not being discriminated against because of their faith.

I should stop here before I draw too much fire. I probably said too much already.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ theliq, Shusha, et al,

You have to be very careful when you talk about "Zionism." That is especially true if you are not Jewish. There are many a widely held → but false beliefs about Zionism, just as there is a misrepresentation of the truth. These are not false beliefs and misrepresented many facts passed-on without a malicious intent. They are what some believe to be true.

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a people and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,let us be totally honest by the end of the 1800.s it was the Christians who persecuted the Jews most of all...but these Noble sentiments were taken over by a Hard Right Wing Elements of the of the Zionist Organization(let us remember when the first delegation of Zionists went to Palestine they clearly stated "The Bride (Palestine) is Beautiful BUT Married to another(The Palestinians)

Shusha I have a meeting,I will respond to you asap..remind me if you have to...Best Regards steven

(COMMENT)

Not all Jews are Zionist. But all Zionist are Jews. There is a distinction here that is important.

Zionism is the national political movement of and for the Jewish people. Some of the embedded ideas that drive Zionism are:

· The right to self-determination.
· The legitimate home of the Jewish people.
· The Jewish people have the right to realize their territorial integrity without having to constantly defend against those that have the opposite belief.
· The Jewish people, have a right to determine their own destiny; - as a free people.​

To be a believer in the religion - Judaism - is a faith-based concept concerning the relationship between a people and the Supreme Being (a deity). They have their own religious customs. But basically, Jewdaism in Religous.

What is the connection between Jews and Zionist? Having said the Judaism is a religion, for nearly 2000 years, the people who believe in the religion are preyed upon by unscrupulous persons of power. Thus the tie-in to Zionism. Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven, a place that they will not be the subject of persecution → generally for wealth and power. Zionism offers the Jew the possibility of a place that they can preserve their culture and practice their religion while not being discriminated against because of their faith.

I should stop here before I draw too much fire. I probably said too much already.

Most Respectfully,
R

There are non Jews who are Zionists.
Meaning that they are for a sovereign state for the Jewish people.
Just as there are Jews who do not want a sovereign state for their people, for whichever religious or personal reasons they may have.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Zionism, (The version referenced on these boards.) is not a religion but a political philosophy.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a peoples and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Zionism, (The version referenced on these boards.) is not a religion but a political philosophy.

Who in the world ever said that Zionism was a religion?

Why do you continue to choose to show how ignorant or deceitful you are by coming up with nonsense like this?

Zionism : a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

BY THE INDIGENOUS people of the land, by the way.

The Jewish Nation/ People

You will never be able to change that.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
※→ theliq, Shusha, et al,

You have to be very careful when you talk about "Zionism." That is especially true if you are not Jewish. There are many a widely held → but false beliefs about Zionism, just as there is a misrepresentation of the truth. These are not false beliefs and misrepresented many facts passed-on without a malicious intent. They are what some believe to be true.

Trouble with your summation is that the Israelites were not the original indigenous people at all but invaders to this land

Really? They invaded from where? In what place did the unique and clearly definable Jewish culture arise?

Jews started their quest as a people and eventually a nation in Iraq,they were decimated by the rise of the Assyians and fled south...Shusha,I think you misunderstand me completely,I have Great admiration for Jews,their fight for existence,against all odds...and what they have done for the world...My Beef is the Zionists as you well know by now...they are different Jews in mentality,that so many have converted to this cult in my opinion has arrested the development of Judiasm.

I only hope that the IS/Pal schism resolves in the future

Okay. So, legit, genuine question here: What is the difference between a "Jew" and a "Zionist", in your mind? What is the difference in mentality? I would honestly like to hear your explanation for this. Preferably in clear, objective terms without emotional language, insults or broad, negative brushstrokes.

Firstly,Zionism was created basically to find a permenent home for Jews worldwide and a very noble sentiment in my opinion,let us be totally honest by the end of the 1800.s it was the Christians who persecuted the Jews most of all...but these Noble sentiments were taken over by a Hard Right Wing Elements of the of the Zionist Organization(let us remember when the first delegation of Zionists went to Palestine they clearly stated "The Bride (Palestine) is Beautiful BUT Married to another(The Palestinians)

Shusha I have a meeting,I will respond to you asap..remind me if you have to...Best Regards steven

(COMMENT)

Not all Jews are Zionist. But all Zionist are Jews. There is a distinction here that is important.

Zionism is the national political movement of and for the Jewish people. Some of the embedded ideas that drive Zionism are:

· The right to self-determination.
· The legitimate home of the Jewish people.
· The Jewish people have the right to realize their territorial integrity without having to constantly defend against those that have the opposite belief.
· The Jewish people, have a right to determine their own destiny; - as a free people.​

To be a believer in the religion - Judaism - is a faith-based concept concerning the relationship between a people and the Supreme Being (a deity). They have their own religious customs. But basically, Jewdaism in Religous.

What is the connection between Jews and Zionist? Having said the Judaism is a religion, for nearly 2000 years, the people who believe in the religion are preyed upon by unscrupulous persons of power. Thus the tie-in to Zionism. Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven, a place that they will not be the subject of persecution → generally for wealth and power. Zionism offers the Jew the possibility of a place that they can preserve their culture and practice their religion while not being discriminated against because of their faith.

I should stop here before I draw too much fire. I probably said too much already.

Most Respectfully,
R

Zionism offers the Jewish people a safe haven,

By kicking out the natives and pigging the place for themselves.