The North Pole could melt this year

[T-Bor]

Right, so let's just wait to things go to shit before we do something. Kind of like the levees. Let's just wait till they break before we do anything. Thank god YOU aren't in charge.

I'm not even reading whatever you posted because I know it's not true. Sure, some parts of antarctica are melting, but others are thickening. When it's all melting, then there is some ground for concern. The north pole's ice melting is nothing. And its bullshit to claim that it has never happened before. We know the north pole, in the past, has existed without ice. Sorry that we didn't have a historian sitting on the north pole to "record it in the historical record". Nothing but a bunch of intellectual dishonesty.

 

[BrianH]

Volcanoes under the ice?

Bwha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!!!!!

Yes, I guess they are causing all the glaciers in the world to recede as well.

It's a proven fact there is a ridge underneath the Arctic...READ THE ARTICLE DUMBASS. Well, you claim that Volcanic activity on the equator caused the little ice age............Is it really so hard to believe? And by the way, GLACIERS have been melting for hundreds of years. Quick, think of something else that DOESN'T prove global warming is caused by man.

 

[Chris]

It's a proven fact there is a ridge underneath the Arctic...READ THE ARTICLE DUMBASS. Well, you claim that Volcanic activity on the equator caused the little ice age............Is it really so hard to believe? And by the way, GLACIERS have been melting for hundreds of years. Quick, think of something else that DOESN'T prove global warming is caused by man.

The glaciers are melting....

Shrinking glaciers evidence of global warming / Differences seen by looking at photos from 100 years ago

 

[Chris]

Great article about the global warming deniers....

New Statesman - The global warming deniers

 

[TopGunna]

The glaciers are melting....

Shrinking glaciers evidence of global warming / Differences seen by looking at photos from 100 years ago

The glaciers have been melting since we've emerged from the little ice age. Glaciers melt every summer, refreeze every winter. Sorry, but that doesn't validate AGW theory.

Got any other anecdotal proof of AGW theory?
We had a lot of flooding in the Midwest this year!
There were a lot of tornadoes this year!
Hurricane Katrina was really bad!
The Northwest Passage was navigable last year!
An ice shelf collapsed in Antarctica!
We set a record high today in such-and-such city!

Unfortunately, this proves nothing. All of these stories share a common problem - they typically are used by the writer to make a statement about the pace and direction of change (and even the acceleration of this change), something that is absolutely scientifically impossible to do from a single data point. As it turns out, we often have flooding in the Midwest. Neither tornadoes nor hurricanes have shown any increasing trend over the past decades. The Northwest Passage has been navigable a number of years in the last century. During the time of the ice shelf collapse panic, Antarctica was actually setting 30-year record highs for sea ice extent. And, by simple math, every city on average should set a new 100-year high temperature every 100 days, and this is even before considering the urban heat island effect's upward bias on city temperature measurement.

 

[Chris]

Kirk, what warmed the earth at the end of the Ice Age as well as the Little Ice Age that peaked in the 1700s? What caused the ice? There is no doubt that we are pumping CO2 into the atmosphere and we should clean up our act. But do not jump on the first GW wagon you see and claim that the earth is warming because of humans. Sure, we pollute and we put CO2 in the air, but it's not even close to being the main cause.

Excellent question, Brian. The Little Ice Age was caused by volcanic eruptions near the equator and by lower solar activity. But the sun is not the main cause of the current warming according to the Stanford solar scientists. I posted their study in this thread.

The acceleration in the melting of the ice cap is the canary in the coal mine(ironic statement). The ice cap has been there for thousands of years, and we have melted it in less than a century.

What is worst is that we are increasing greatly the amount of CO2 we are putting in the atmosphere with the industrialization of China and India.

This topic has been politicized by right wing thing tanks like the Heritage Foundation and others. I personally have never seen Al Gore's movie, and I don't think the Kyoto Accord will do much good. I think we are screwed.

 

[TopGunna]

I got an email saying Kirk had replied to one on my posts at 3:22 - but can't find it in this thread. Has it been deleted?

 

[Chris]

I got an email saying Kirk had replied to one on my posts at 3:22 - but can't find it in this thread. Has it been deleted?

Satellite photos don't lie. Only people lie....

 

[TopGunna]

Satellite photos don't lie. Only people lie....

Hahaha! Of course, it would be nice if someone has been intelligent enough to label those "photos" - apparently it's white in outer space?

 

[Chris]

Hahaha! Of course, it would be nice if someone has been intelligent enough to label those "photos" - apparently it's white in outer space?

These photos show the melting of the pole from 1979 to now.

 

[Chris]

Good article about yourself and the enviromental wackos.
Sure, the North Pole is Melting. So What?: Newsroom: The Independent Institute
It is fashionable these days to blame almost everything on man-made global warming. So it comes as no great surprise to read in a recent New York Times story that “leads” of open water in ice fields near the North Pole filled cruise passengers on a Russian icebreaker with a “sense of alarm” about impending climate disasters. Two scientists-lecturers aboard, a Harvard zoologist and an American Museum paleontologist (experts on animals and fossils, but not on meteorology) were “shocked,” as ABC News reported, to find “Santa’s workshop underwater.”

I am a veteran of two Arctic expeditions with the US Navy, and I can testify that icebreakers always search for leads to make their way through the ice. After a long summer of 24-hour days it is not unusual to find open leads all over the place, especially after strong winds break up the winter ice.

Nor is this a recent phenomenon. In a 1969 Dutch atlas the following passage appears: “The Northern Ice Sea is never completely frozen; 3- to 30-meter thick ice floes continue moving slowly around the pole. At the North Pole the winter temperature is never lower than -35 degrees Celsius. Summer temperatures can rise to 10 to 12 degrees Celsius.” Those last temperatures are well above freezing.

But all this proves little about climate change or about enhanced greenhouse warming. For this purpose we use instruments: thermometers at weather stations, radiosondes carried into the atmosphere by weather balloons twice daily and, of course, Earth-circling weather satellites, that sense atmospheric temperatures remotely. And all of these agree that the polar regions have not warmed appreciably in recent decades.

Climate models do call for a warming trend as levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide rise because of the burning of fossil fuels. Hence the dilemma: Do we believe theoretical models of the atmosphere or the atmosphere itself? I prefer to believe in the atmosphere and the actual observations that show no current warming. If this clashes with the accepted popular wisdom and media hype, so be it. I go with published data.

The Earth did warm between about 1900 and 1940, with the climate recovering from a previous cold period that climate experts refer to as the Little Ice Age. As a result of these changes, which have nothing to do with human influences, it is warmer now than it was 100 years ago. This has had an influence on polar ice, which has been slowly thinning, as it melts from beneath. And the ice will continue to thin for some time to come even though the climate is no longer warming. Moral: It takes a lot of time to melt ice.

Weather satellites tell us that polar ice cover is shrinking—likely a delayed effect of the pre-1940 warming. The Northeast Passage has opened up, allowing ships to sail from London to Japan along the coast of Siberia. It’s all part of a natural climate cycle and need not cause concern. Recall that 1000 years ago the climate was so warm that Vikings settled Greenland and grew crops there for a few centuries. Just imagine: Santa’s reindeers would have had to swim to get here from the North Pole.

jreeves, the author of the article quoted above works for the tobacco industry and the oil industry. Check out this profile......

Singer was born September 27, 1924, in Vienna, Austria. Singer received a B.E.E. from Ohio State University in 1943 and a Ph.D. from Princeton University in 1948.

In the early 1990s, Singer's wife, Candace Carolyn Crandall, was Executive Vice President of SEPP and is currently a Research Associate of SEPP. [1]

The Competitive Enterprise Institute lists Singer as "expert" on their website. [2]

[edit]Affiliations
1989- Director and President, Science and Environmental Policy Project, a foundation-funded, independent research group, incorporated in 1992, to advance environment and health policies through sound science. SEPP is a non-profit, education organization.
1993- Member of the board of the International Center for a Scientific Ecology.
1994- Distinguished Research Professor, Institute for Humane Studies at George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.
2002 Advisory Board Member, American Council on Science and Health
Editorial Advisory Board, The Cato Institute
Adjunct Scholar, National Center for Policy Analysis
Adjunct Fellow, Frontiers of Freedom
2006- Member of the Science Advisory Committee for the Natural Resources Stewardship Project.
It should be noted that, according to Environmental Defense, October 26, 2005: [3]

The Cato Institute received $55,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The National Center for Policy Analysis received $105,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The Frontiers of Freedom organizations received $282,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The American Council on Science and Health received $35,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
[edit]Climate Change "Expert"
The National Center for Public Policy Research [4] lists Singer as someone that journalists can interview on climate change policy.[5]

[edit]Tobacco Industry Contractor
In 1993, Singer collaborated with Tom Hockaday of Apco Associates to draft an article on "junk science" intended for publication. Apco Associates was the PR firm hired to organize and direct The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition for Philip Morris. Hockaday reported on his work with Singer to Ellen Merlo, Senior Vice President of Corporate Affairs at Philip Morris.[1]

In 1994, Singer was Chief Reviewer of the report Science, economics, and environmental policy: a critical examination published by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI). This was all part of an attack on EPA regulation on environmental tobacco smoke funded by the Tobacco Institute. [6] At that time, Mr. Singer was a Senior Fellow with AdTI. [7]

"The report's principal reviewer, Dr Fred Singer, was involved with the International Center for a Scientific Ecology, a group that was considered important in Philip Morris' plans to create a group in Europe similar to The Advancement for Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), as discussed by Ong and Glantz. He was also on a tobacco industry list of people who could write op-ed pieces on "junk science," defending the industry's views.39" [8]

In 1995, as President of the Science and Environmental Policy Project (a think tank based in Fairfax, Virginia) S. Fred Singer was involved in launching a publicity campaign about "The Top 5 Environmental Myths of 1995," a list that included the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's conclusion that secondhand tobacco smoke is a human carcinogen. Shandwick, a public relations agency working for British American Tobacco, pitched the "Top 5 Myths" list idea to Singer to minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in orchestrating criticism of the EPA. The "Top 5 Environmental Myths" list packaged EPA's secondhand smoke ruling with other topics like global warming and radon gas, to help minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in the effort. According to a 1996 BAT memo describing the arrangement, Singer agreed to an "aggressive media interview schedule" organized by Shandwick to help publicize his criticism of EPA's conclusions.[9]

[edit]Oil Industry Contractor
In a September 24, 1993, sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the American Gas Association. [10]

 

[Charles_Main]

Satellite photos don't lie. Only people lie....

LOL that could be a pic from summer and one from winter

our climates has always gone trough cycles man, only lately have we tried to place all the blame on ourselves.

Charles

 

[BrianH]

Excellent question, Brian. The Little Ice Age was caused by volcanic eruptions near the equator and by lower solar activity. But the sun is not the main cause of the current warming according to the Stanford solar scientists. I posted their study in this thread.

The acceleration in the melting of the ice cap is the canary in the coal mine(ironic statement). The ice cap has been there for thousands of years, and we have melted it in less than a century.

What is worst is that we are increasing greatly the amount of CO2 we are putting in the atmosphere with the industrialization of China and India.

This topic has been politicized by right wing thing tanks like the Heritage Foundation and others. I personally have never seen Al Gore's movie, and I don't think the Kyoto Accord will do much good. I think we are screwed.

LOLOLOL. You're a piece of work dude. You simply throw everyone elses evidence out of the window despite it's validity and truthfulness. It is a proven FACT that there is a ridge underneath arctic ice on the ocean floor that has definately spewed lava and hot gases into the arctic ocean. THe first such occurance occurred in 1998-2001. It is also being studied right now to be a very plausible reason for the melting ice-cap. I just talked to a lady personally and her parents up North had snow this June.

 

[Chris]

LOLOLOL. You're a piece of work dude. You simply throw everyone elses evidence out of the window despite it's validity and truthfulness. It is a proven FACT that there is a ridge underneath arctic ice on the ocean floor that has definately spewed lava and hot gases into the arctic ocean. THe first such occurance occurred in 1998-2001. It is also being studied right now to be a very plausible reason for the melting ice-cap. I just talked to a lady personally and her parents up North had snow this June.

You just don't get it. Ice is melting all over the world. Volcanoes under the arctic are not melting the glaciers in Glacier State Park or Switzerland or Chile or at the South Pole. Keep trying though. You and your Exxon butt buddies are doing a great job.

 

[BrianH]

You just don't get it. Ice is melting all over the world. Volcanoes under the arctic are not melting the glaciers in Glacier State Park or Switzerland or Chile or at the South Pole. Keep trying though. You and your Exxon butt buddies are doing a great job.

Ice is also melting on Mars, and other planets are getting warmer as well...it's not just Earth. Glaciers have been melting for YEARS. There are large cut-outs in the mountains from glaciers that completed melting thousands of years ago...was it Humans. There were glaciers thousands of years ago that were melted before we started burning fossil fuels. As far as my "butt buddies" ... If they were "butt buddies" of mine, they'd be alot better than your butt buddy.

 

[jreeves]

jreeves, the author of the article quoted above works for the tobacco industry and the oil industry. Check out this profile......

Singer was born September 27, 1924, in Vienna, Austria. Singer received a B.E.E. from Ohio State University in 1943 and a Ph.D. from Princeton University in 1948.

In the early 1990s, Singer's wife, Candace Carolyn Crandall, was Executive Vice President of SEPP and is currently a Research Associate of SEPP. [1]

The Competitive Enterprise Institute lists Singer as "expert" on their website. [2]

[edit]Affiliations
1989- Director and President, Science and Environmental Policy Project, a foundation-funded, independent research group, incorporated in 1992, to advance environment and health policies through sound science. SEPP is a non-profit, education organization.
1993- Member of the board of the International Center for a Scientific Ecology.
1994- Distinguished Research Professor, Institute for Humane Studies at George Mason University, Fairfax, VA.
2002 Advisory Board Member, American Council on Science and Health
Editorial Advisory Board, The Cato Institute
Adjunct Scholar, National Center for Policy Analysis
Adjunct Fellow, Frontiers of Freedom
2006- Member of the Science Advisory Committee for the Natural Resources Stewardship Project.
It should be noted that, according to Environmental Defense, October 26, 2005: [3]

The Cato Institute received $55,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The National Center for Policy Analysis received $105,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The Frontiers of Freedom organizations received $282,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
The American Council on Science and Health received $35,000 from ExxonMobil in 2002-2003.
[edit]Climate Change "Expert"
The National Center for Public Policy Research [4] lists Singer as someone that journalists can interview on climate change policy.[5]

[edit]Tobacco Industry Contractor
In 1993, Singer collaborated with Tom Hockaday of Apco Associates to draft an article on "junk science" intended for publication. Apco Associates was the PR firm hired to organize and direct The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition for Philip Morris. Hockaday reported on his work with Singer to Ellen Merlo, Senior Vice President of Corporate Affairs at Philip Morris.[1]

In 1994, Singer was Chief Reviewer of the report Science, economics, and environmental policy: a critical examination published by the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution (AdTI). This was all part of an attack on EPA regulation on environmental tobacco smoke funded by the Tobacco Institute. [6] At that time, Mr. Singer was a Senior Fellow with AdTI. [7]

"The report's principal reviewer, Dr Fred Singer, was involved with the International Center for a Scientific Ecology, a group that was considered important in Philip Morris' plans to create a group in Europe similar to The Advancement for Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), as discussed by Ong and Glantz. He was also on a tobacco industry list of people who could write op-ed pieces on "junk science," defending the industry's views.39" [8]

In 1995, as President of the Science and Environmental Policy Project (a think tank based in Fairfax, Virginia) S. Fred Singer was involved in launching a publicity campaign about "The Top 5 Environmental Myths of 1995," a list that included the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's conclusion that secondhand tobacco smoke is a human carcinogen. Shandwick, a public relations agency working for British American Tobacco, pitched the "Top 5 Myths" list idea to Singer to minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in orchestrating criticism of the EPA. The "Top 5 Environmental Myths" list packaged EPA's secondhand smoke ruling with other topics like global warming and radon gas, to help minimize the appearance of tobacco industry involvement in the effort. According to a 1996 BAT memo describing the arrangement, Singer agreed to an "aggressive media interview schedule" organized by Shandwick to help publicize his criticism of EPA's conclusions.[9]

[edit]Oil Industry Contractor
In a September 24, 1993, sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the American Gas Association. [10]

Why is it you never cite the source for your information, isn't that against board rules?

 

[jreeves]

Ice is also melting on Mars, and other planets are getting warmer as well...it's not just Earth. Glaciers have been melting for YEARS. There are large cut-outs in the mountains from glaciers that completed melting thousands of years ago...was it Humans. There were glaciers thousands of years ago that were melted before we started burning fossil fuels. As far as my "butt buddies" ... If they were "butt buddies" of mine, they'd be alot better than your butt buddy.

Omg....Lmfao!!!

 

[editec]

LOLOLOL. You're a piece of work dude. You simply throw everyone elses evidence out of the window despite it's validity and truthfulness. It is a proven FACT that there is a ridge underneath arctic ice on the ocean floor that has definately spewed lava and hot gases into the arctic ocean. THe first such occurance occurred in 1998-2001. It is also being studied right now to be a very plausible reason for the melting ice-cap. I just talked to a lady personally and her parents up North had snow this June.

Odd.

I can't find any evidence of volcanic activity under the polar ice cap in any reputable scientific journal.

I see a LOT about it in right wing blogs, though.

 

[Chris]

Why is it you never cite the source for your information, isn't that against board rules?

I guess you don't know how to use google. No wonder you don't know anything. Check out sourcewatch.org. It shows who is pulling your strings.

 

[Chris]

Ice is also melting on Mars, and other planets are getting warmer as well...it's not just Earth. Glaciers have been melting for YEARS. There are large cut-outs in the mountains from glaciers that completed melting thousands of years ago...was it Humans. There were glaciers thousands of years ago that were melted before we started burning fossil fuels. As far as my "butt buddies" ... If they were "butt buddies" of mine, they'd be alot better than your butt buddy.

Yes, the North Pole has melted in less than 100 years, and it is all Al Gore's fault. How stupid. I posted the link from the Stanford University solar scientists where they explain that a small percentage(25%) of global warming may be solar related. But the problem is that when solar activity has gone down,which it does every few years,the earth's temperature and the melting has continued to go up. Did you ever wonder why all the "experts" you guys quote work for Exxon?