Of polar caps and climate change
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Old Rocks
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Dumb ****, I could post hundreds of links to real papers written by scientists. Something you cannot do for your whackadoodle nonsense. Here is just one with links;
History of Climate Science Research | Center for Science Education
How has our knowledge about Earth's climate grown over time? Use our interactive timeline to explore important and interesting scientific milestones, including when carbon dioxide was first discovered and when we learned about the heat-trapping ability of gases.
scied.ucar.edu
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
LOL Current 'administration' is going to be put permanently out of business shortly, with more people in it ending up in prison than happened in the Nixon admin. The malodorous mango will be among them if he is not dead already by that time. He is looking worse month by month, even Biden with stage four cancer looks healthier than Trump.
Old Rocks
Diamond Member
Yes, a new study specifically ordered to show this result. Trumpian science all the way. From that site;2007 British Court affirmed actual data and certified Antarctic ice increasing
This is 2015
Study: Mass gains of Antarctic ice sheet greater than losses - NASA Science
A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.science.nasa.gov
Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.
NOTE: The findings reported here conflict with over a decade of other measurements, including previous NASA studies. However, challenges to existing findings are an integral part of the scientific process and can help clarify and advance understanding. Additional scrutiny and follow-up research will be required before this study can be reconciled with the preponderance of evidence supporting the widely accepted model of a shrinking Antarctic ice sheet.
Study: Mass gains of Antarctic ice sheet greater than losses - NASA Science
A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.
science.nasa.gov
EMH
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Dumb ****, I could post hundreds of links to real papers written by scientists. Something you cannot do for your whackadoodle nonsense. Here is just one with links;
History of Climate Science Research | Center for Science Education
How has our knowledge about Earth's climate grown over time? Use our interactive timeline to explore important and interesting scientific milestones, including when carbon dioxide was first discovered and when we learned about the heat-trapping ability of gases.
Find a piece of land inside of 600 miles to a pole not in ice age yet? NOPE
You can't refute a word.
Just simply linking a general CO2 FRAUD bullshit summary doesn't change anything.
NO WARMING in the ATMOSPHERE
NO WARMING in the OCEANS
NO ONGOING NET ICE MELT
NO OCEAN RISE
NO BREAKOUT in CANE ACTIVITY
NO RISE in SURFACE AIR PRESSURE
EMH
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Yes, a new study specifically ordered to show this result. Trumpian science all the way. From that site;
NOTE: The findings reported here conflict with over a decade of other measurements, including previous NASA studies. However, challenges to existing findings are an integral part of the scientific process and can help clarify and advance understanding. Additional scrutiny and follow-up research will be required before this study can be reconciled with the preponderance of evidence supporting the widely accepted model of a shrinking Antarctic ice sheet.
Study: Mass gains of Antarctic ice sheet greater than losses - NASA Science
A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.
CO2 FRAUD has that "warning" on all ACTUAL DATA, because the ACTUAL DATA has always REFUTED CO2 FRAUD...
Warning - you are observing actual data before the "climate scientists" get to fudge it. We advise you to pay no attention to the actual data showing no warming and wait until the "climate scientists" fudge it to show "warming," and then freak out and scream "we're all gonna die!!"
Manonthestreet
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Old Rocks
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Simple to refute your idiotic nonsense. During the PETM the north shore of Alaska was well within your silly 600 mile limit. Yet there were alligators swimming around in the waters there. Here is a site where you can clearly see the continental positions during the PETM.
EMH
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The state's northernmost point, Utqiaġvik (formerly Barrow), is closer, situated roughly 1,300 miles from the North Pole
56 million years ago would put North America SE of where Greenland is today. North American Ice Age was 50 million years in duration, so 56 million years ago plate movement from the fault at the center bottom of Atlantic Ocean was literally half of what it is now. Arctic Ocean was also smaller, but it isn't growing as fast as Atlantic fault is.
And yes, North American Ice Age perfectly correlated with 600 miles to the pole, and still does with Ellesmere, 0.3% of Earth ice, good enough for 3rd place on Planet Earth behind AA (90%) and Greenland (7%).
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Old Rocks
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EMH
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CO2 FRAUD has McBullshit claiming Antarctica has sat on South Pole for 80 million years.
WRONG.
Antarctica and South America broke off from Africa at the same time. They were attached to each other until 20 million years ago, why the southern tip of South America glaciated then.
Greenland and North America are actually moving on the same vector (on a SPHERE) pushed there by the fault in the above post. Greenland is still moving WNW. North America, having passed its "closest to the pole" point 20-30 million years ago, is moving SW.
And that's why Greenland froze while North America thawed AT THE SAME TIME...
Etymology gaslight
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Thank you for this.Just in our solar system, there are several other planets/moons/dwarf planets/round objects in space that have frozen polar caps. Why does whatever form of "ice" always freeze at the poles? The poles are coldest because they are at the worst angle to the Sun and get the least amount of heat energy from Sun. The equator is perpendicular to the Sun and hence gets the strongest energy. I don't think that is too controversial, but with CO2 FRAUD you never know.
Mars is a fascinating laboratory of planetary climate change because of its highly elliptical orbit. Mars has massive climate change during each year. It goes from cold to extremely cold, and its surface air pressure (SAP) fluctuates considerably, going way up as the planet warms and way down as the planet cools.
Now, not all of that is warming/cooling, the Martian polar ice caps, mostly CO2, vary considerably during the year, and greatly affect SAP. CO2 sublimes, doesn't go into a liquid phase, simply goes from solid to gas.
The polar CO2 ice caps from Mars
The "irregularities" are from the shape of the land, hills blocking Sun etc. But they are polar caps and the frozen CO2 is generally within a certain range of the pole given the time of year, a Mars year.
On Earth we have polar caps made of H2O that do go into a liquid phase, water. It is that issue that causes Earth to have its irregular polar ice caps... the ice only grows on land, not water, or sea ice, which is only 1% or so, and includes icebergs originating from land. Antarctica is 90%, Greenland is 7%, Ellesmere is 0.3%, that's 97.3% of Earth ice. The rest is mountains and sea ice.
So while Mars' polar caps fluctuate off distance from Sun, Earth, with its more circular orbit, has a different trigger for climate change, the position of land. An Earth polar circle with no land within 600 miles of the pole has no ice, essentially "winking out" one of the planet's ice caps. That does warm Earth, as the ice cools both the air that goes above it and the water where it dumps icebergs, and that wouldn't be there anymore.
Essentially, the tectonic movement of the plates and the position of land controls the size and scope of our two polar caps. And it really does the same thing as it does on Mars.
No land near the poles = no ice = warmer, wetter, much higher SAP = Jurassic
OK, so then the question is, but the ice melts into water, it doesn't go into the atmosphere. OK, the H2O doesn't, but... the ice is from ice age glacier, where each year's ice layer is layered on top of the prior one.
GoogAI...
A 10:1 ratio is a common rule of thumb where 10 inches of snow equals 1 inch of water.
and all of that air is trapped in the ice, and those annual layers compress as more weight is added on top each year. There is more gas trapped in Antarctic ice than there is in the atmosphere now. Melt that ice and all that gas goes back into the atmosphere, so Earth's ice situation really isn't any different from Mars in that regard... melt the ice, more gas goes into atmosphere.
If you allow yourself to entertain the idea that a higher atmospheric pressure, say between 3 and 5 bar, could have existed in the time of the dinosaurs, it would resolve two of the anomalies that face us today, which are:* how a dinosaur’s heart could pump blood 7 or more meters upwards, without introducing the ideas of multiple hearts (as many as 8), giant hearts, and hearts located right under their chins, and * how a giant flying quetzalcoatlus had the energy to stay airborne, something that biology and aerodynamics says is not possible in today’s atmosphere.
So yeah, planetary climate change, assuming stable orbit, Sun energy, is driven by changes to the polar caps, whatever they are made out of, Pluto has N polar caps.
Warm the planet = cap melts/sublimes = warmer and higher SAP
For Earth, the warming comes from the changes to the amount of ice on the planet, which is about tectonic plate movement and 600 miles to the pole, but the same thing happens
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