The myths of high cost healthcare

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The important thing is what the people want, really.

too stupid!! If they wanted a Nazi ruler it would be important not to get them what they wanted. What matters is what the Constitution calls for and what common sense calls for.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And it's also hardly true that to provide universal healthcare automatically leads to gulags and mass murder, and to say such is largely a kind of propaganda, and beyond that, false.

why false?? has a libturd ever said how big is big?? How will they win elections if they can't promise more and more?? Can you see them ever saying, enough welfare, now you're on your own, sink or swim!!
You need to thank God everyday that Jeffersonian Republicans are here to hold them back!!

 

[kiwiman127]

Why do people still believe that if the government is the sole provider of health care, the people will actually get health care?

Its a well established principle that a governemnt monopoly is the most efficient way to deliver health care, automobiles, and energy, not to mention many many other goods and services!!

The 100 million who slowly starved to death in the USSR and Russia don't mean a thing!!

That France's per capita income is equal to Arkansas' does not mean a thing either!!

But then France's per capita income is $48,783.
List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and Arkansas's income per capita is $33,150
Per Capita Personal Income by State | Infoplease.com

Showing us your super IQ again? Idiot.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Why do people still believe that if the government is the sole provider of health care, the people will actually get health care?

Its a well established principle that a governemnt monopoly is the most efficient way to deliver health care, automobiles, and energy, not to mention many many other goods and services!!

The 100 million who slowly starved to death in the USSR and Russia don't mean a thing!!

That France's per capita income is equal to Arkansas' does not mean a thing either!!

But then France's per capita income is $48,783.
List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and Arkansas's income per capita is $33,150
Per Capita Personal Income by State | Infoplease.com

Showing us your super IQ again? Idiot.

from CIA fact book: USA percapita income is $52,000, France, $34,000, and Arkansas $33,000



COUNTRY GDP (PURCHASING POWER PARITY) DATE OF INFORMATION
1 European Union
$ 15,700,000,000,000
2012 est.
2 United States
$ 15,660,000,000,000
2012 est.
3 China
$ 12,380,000,000,000
2012 est.
4 India
$ 4,735,000,000,000
2012 est.
5 Japan
$ 4,617,000,000,000
2012 est.
6 Germany
$ 3,194,000,000,000
2012 est.
7 Russia
$ 2,509,000,000,000
2012 est.
8 Brazil
$ 2,362,000,000,000
2012 est.
9 United Kingdom
$ 2,323,000,000,000
2012 est.
10 France
$ 2,253,000,000,000
2012 est.
11


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

 

[Underhill]

This is in CANADA??

You really do have terrible insurance.

Can't be Canada. We only pay about $2000 for our insurance and we have no co-pays at all other than $5 for a prescription. Co-pays on doctors visits or hospital stays are illegal here.

Before ObamaCare:


The following ‘Universal Healthcare’ countries have higher out-of-pocket costs than the United States:
Out-of-pocket spending as a share of total expenditure on health, 1980-2000 http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/5/53/22364122.pdf (table 4)
http://www.oecd.org/els/healthpoliciesanddata/22364122.pdf
Canada, Denmark, Finland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland.

Did anyone else actually look at table 4?

It shows Canada's out of pocket expenses at 14-15% and the US between 15 and 20%. Denmark is 11-16%. Finland 15-20%. Spain payed marginally more (20-22%) than those in the US with Switzerland being the only country listed who actually pays significantly more than the US for out of pocket cost.

And this is for those who are insured either publicly or privately. It doesn't include those without insurance who pay 100% out of pocket.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It shows Canada's out of pocket expenses at 14-15% and the US between 15 and 20%.

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand.

 

[Underhill]

It shows Canada's out of pocket expenses at 14-15% and the US between 15 and 20%.

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand.

What fairy tale world do you draw these numbers from? Canada's cost are significantly lower than ours. Not just out of pocket, but the overall cost.

Here is a story that backs up my position. One that uses real numbers.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown...how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It shows Canada's out of pocket expenses at 14-15% and the US between 15 and 20%.

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand.

What fairy tale world do you draw these numbers from? Canada's cost are significantly lower than ours. Not just out of pocket, but the overall cost.

Here is a story that backs up my position. One that uses real numbers.

Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand

 

[pjnlsn]

And it's also hardly true that to provide universal healthcare automatically leads to gulags and mass murder, and to say such is largely a kind of propaganda, and beyond that, false.

why false?? has a libturd ever said how big is big?? How will they win elections if they can't promise more and more?? Can you see them ever saying, enough welfare, now you're on your own, sink or swim!!
You need to thank God everyday that Jeffersonian Republicans are here to hold them back!!

The following is as serious a response as the above deserves, even if you weren't a troll:

You associated universal healthcare with the socio-economic conditions in the USSR, for much of it's existence. This is false.

Still assuming the above post was written honestly, it should be noted that none of it *really* has anything do with what I wrote before.

 

[Underhill]

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand.

What fairy tale world do you draw these numbers from? Canada's cost are significantly lower than ours. Not just out of pocket, but the overall cost.

Here is a story that backs up my position. One that uses real numbers.

Health Costs: How the U.S. Compares With Other Countries | PBS NewsHour

This is because their socialist system is less inefficient than our socialist system. If we had capitalist health care costs would be reduced by about 80%. This is something a child can understand

Except you have failed to give any real numbers, any sources, any factual information whatsoever.

What I understand, as would most children, is you are pulling these numbers out of your ass.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Except you have failed to give any real numbers, any sources, any factual information whatsoever.

well think about it dear, we have Medicaid Medicare Schip Tricare VA and intense regulation in each state while Canada has only one large bureaucracy. It figures that Cananda would be a more efficient socialism. Why on earth would our health care be so expensive compared to Cananda when everything else is the same price.

Did you think it was the Girl Scouts who controlled our health care system??????????????

 

[Underhill]

Except you have failed to give any real numbers, any sources, any factual information whatsoever.

well think about it dear, we have Medicaid Medicare Schip Tricare VA and intense regulation in each state while Canada has only one large bureaucracy. It figures that Cananda would be a more efficient socialism. Why on earth would our health care be so expensive compared to Cananda when everything else is the same price.

Did you think it was the Girl Scouts who controlled our health care system??????????????

Yes, but you still fail to offer a solution.

Are you suggesting everyone just pays as they go? 100% out of pocket? No regulations, a capitalistic free for all. Because I am sorry, but that is no solution. That means the poor, the sick and the elderly will all be fucked.

But cost will certainly go down. No doubt about that.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Except you have failed to give any real numbers, any sources, any factual information whatsoever.

well think about it dear, we have Medicaid Medicare Schip Tricare VA and intense regulation in each state while Canada has only one large bureaucracy. It figures that Cananda would be a more efficient socialism. Why on earth would our health care be so expensive compared to Cananda when everything else is the same price.

Did you think it was the Girl Scouts who controlled our health care system??????????????

Yes, but you still fail to offer a solution.

Are you suggesting everyone just pays as they go? 100% out of pocket? No regulations, a capitalistic free for all. Because I am sorry, but that is no solution. That means the poor, the sick and the elderly will all be fucked.

But cost will certainly go down. No doubt about that.

dear, under capitalism Lasik surgery went down by 90%. When capitalism drives all health costs down 90% paying will be no problem at all.

 

[Dragonlady]

dear, under capitalism Lasik surgery went down by 90%. When capitalism drives all health costs down 90% paying will be no problem at all.

It went down in Canada, all across Europe and the rest of the world Eddie. That's because more and more of the machines went on the market, and more and more people received training on using them.

Lasik surgery costs on average, $2100 in the US. In Canada, this surgery is not covered by our public health care insurance and the procedure costs $490 per eye, or $980.00 - less than half of what it costs in your capitalistic system.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It [cost of Lasik] went down in Canada, all across Europe and the rest of the world Eddie. That's because more and more of the machines went on the market, and more and more people received training on using them.

Well dear since that is the only time in America when health care costs went down 90% and that is the only time when costs wern't well regulated by our liberal soviet Solyndra crony capitalist corporatist gestapo that must tell you something about freedom and capitalism just as the recent experience in China must tell you something about how capitalism lowers costs to make people instantly rich while liberalism does the exact opposite.

Please don't let your bigotry get in the way.

 

[dblack]

Except you have failed to give any real numbers, any sources, any factual information whatsoever.

well think about it dear, we have Medicaid Medicare Schip Tricare VA and intense regulation in each state while Canada has only one large bureaucracy. It figures that Cananda would be a more efficient socialism. Why on earth would our health care be so expensive compared to Cananda when everything else is the same price.

Did you think it was the Girl Scouts who controlled our health care system??????????????

Yes, but you still fail to offer a solution.

Are you suggesting everyone just pays as they go? 100% out of pocket? No regulations, a capitalistic free for all. Because I am sorry, but that is no solution. That means the poor, the sick and the elderly will all be fucked.

But cost will certainly go down. No doubt about that.

Bah... that's a dodge. We're not talking about helping the indigent. There are already safety net programs for them. If you want to beef those up, that's another discussion. Maybe we should.

But 'reform' like PPACA forces all of us into into the corporate controlled "safety net" whether we need or want to be there. There's just no need to indulge those who want centralized control over everything under the sun.

 

[Wry Catcher]

All healthcare providers in order to stay in business must contact with all of the health insurance companies. These contracts contain fee schedules of what they will pay for as allowable charges. It is the insurance companies that have complete control of healthcare costs and not the providers of service.

In 2011 U.S. healthcare spending growth stayed at slowest rate in 52 years and the reason why is because they control healthcare spending while providers of service must write off thousands of dollars because they were n't allowed by the contracted insurance.

Healthcare insurance companies do not absorb the cost of people without insurance. The State programs take care of that. Hospitals must accept the allowable fees from contracted insurance companies so the costs of the uninsured does not effect the health insurance companies.

The health insurance companies got hit when all the corporations of America paid lobbyist to change the laws so they could expand the oversea markets as this caused a lost of a large group of healthy people that paid premiums that now no longer have a job.

This is where Obamacare comes in to replace that lost revenue that are now mandated to buy coverage. The health insurance companies are raising premiums purely out of greed and to fund their expanding overseas market. They all paid lobbyist and paid contributions to Senators to get laws passed so their profit margin got raised.

They now got waivers so they can keep their preexisting clause in tact and can cap benefits on individuals so nothing was lost to them. Obamacare has been reduced to only effect the tax payers and not the health insurance industry.

Everyone can agree their premiums have gone up and are now facing more out of pocket costs but we are getting nothing in return. When you CEO's of health insurance companys making 49 million a year such as United Healthcare and they paid lobbists in 2009 for 110,000 and paid contributions to Senators in 2010 for 458,000, they are absorbing administration costs in oversea markets, what is left to pay on claims is minimal.

All of these statistics on healthcare costs is totaled by the charges submitted to insurance companies when the real report should be on the allowables that the insurance company will actually approve. If we had that report we would see who is the most corrupt of all and that is the insurance companies.

They are draining society of all the money spent on premiums and have reduced fee schedules so providers of healthcare are feeling the pinch while leaving the masses to not only pay in portions of their premiums but also pay for their medical services due to high deductibles.

My employer paid $10,000 for my husband and myself for health benefits. My healthcare bill in charges submitted for 2011 was $6822.25 but the insurance company only allowed $3499.54. Out of that they paid only $374.74 for the year 2011. I am responsible for the balance. The insurance company profited just on us alone for 2011 $9793.46

So you tell me who is actually getting screwed here

Pay no attention to the Chargemaster (at your own risk!).

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

But 'reform' like PPACA forces all of us into into the corporate controlled "safety net" whether we need or want to be there.

Seems absurd when lasik just went down 90% because it is very very complex free market surgery!!

I liberal will lack the IQ to understand capitalism so the whole world must suffer.

 

[dblack]

But 'reform' like PPACA forces all of us into into the corporate controlled "safety net" whether we need or want to be there.

Seems absurd when lasik just went down 90% because it is very very complex free market surgery!!

I liberal will lack the IQ to understand capitalism so the whole world must suffer.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Underhill]

well think about it dear, we have Medicaid Medicare Schip Tricare VA and intense regulation in each state while Canada has only one large bureaucracy. It figures that Cananda would be a more efficient socialism. Why on earth would our health care be so expensive compared to Cananda when everything else is the same price.

Did you think it was the Girl Scouts who controlled our health care system??????????????

Yes, but you still fail to offer a solution.

Are you suggesting everyone just pays as they go? 100% out of pocket? No regulations, a capitalistic free for all. Because I am sorry, but that is no solution. That means the poor, the sick and the elderly will all be fucked.

But cost will certainly go down. No doubt about that.

dear, under capitalism Lasik surgery went down by 90%. When capitalism drives all health costs down 90% paying will be no problem at all.

Where do you get these numbers?