'My health insurance is going up to $800 a month with a $15k deductible and that's the CHEAPEST PLAN"

[Woodznutz]

My mother had to be raced to the ER last spring. She remained there for 24 hours, and I saw three rotations of doctors. Every single one was either Asian or Arab.

Then she was moved to ICC for two days. Not a white American in sight. Again, all Asian or Arab.

Then a week in the regular hospital wing. Again, not a single white male doctor. There was ONE white female doctor, but the rest were all Asian.

Back in the day they were Filipinos.

 

[CrazyTrader55]

I've undergone 4 surgeries/procedures in the last six weeks. Just had the most recent one yesterday morning, in fact.

Looking at the bills, I wanna say that they would have cost less if I just wrote a personal check outright.

What a racket the whole insurance business seems to be.

It wasn't always that way. I remember in the 90's, paying some reasonable premiums and having reasonable deductibles and having true piece of mind that if something big happened with my health, I would be ok.

That is not where we are at today. Thank both political parties and thank your friendly neighborhood illegal alien. Thank the greedy insurance companies too.

 

[Woodznutz]

It wasn't always that way. I remember in the 90's, paying some reasonable premiums and having reasonable deductibles and having true piece of mind that if something big happened with my health, I would be ok.

That is not where we are at today. Thank both political parties and thank your friendly neighborhood illegal alien. Thank the greedy insurance companies too.

Thank easy credit. Look what happened when the student loan program was adopted. The massive student debt was entirely predictable, just like consumer debt due to credit cards.

 

[dblack]

I've undergone 4 surgeries/procedures in the last six weeks. Just had the most recent one yesterday morning, in fact.

Looking at the bills, I wanna say that they would have cost less if I just wrote a personal check outright.

What a racket the whole insurance business seems to be.

Ayup.

Markets adjust to the real values consumer place on goods and services. Like water, it flows around the obstacles and artificial pressures. That's why we generally end up paying, out of pocket, something closer to the true market value of a given medical service. "My deductible/co-pay for this treatment is $1500 - It's worth that much to me so I'll pay it." Nevermind that the doctor is getting $5k. And the hospital another $10k.

As long as the real costs are hidden, as long as our insurance is funded with largely invisible payroll deductions, this game will continue. Congress will funnel money to the insurance companies, via ACA, and they will in turn hand it off to the doctors and big pharma.

Thank you, taxpayers!

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

I've undergone 4 surgeries/procedures in the last six weeks. Just had the most recent one yesterday morning, in fact.

Looking at the bills, I wanna say that they would have cost less if I just wrote a personal check outright.

What a racket the whole insurance business seems to be.

Very sorry to hear about your procedures and hope that you have a full and swift recovery.

I think you may be correct about paying more with health insurance. I have found that my private BCBS insurance frequently costs more than cash for both doctor charges and prescriptions.

When I pay cash (without going through insurance), there is the drawback of the payment not counting towards the deductible or out-of-pocket limit, but since I seldom hit those limits, I opt for cash when it's considerably cheaper.
Examples -
$550 cash for allergy testing versus $700 through insurance.
$20 for a prescription instead of $110.

Seems that those of us with insurance are subsidizing those without. We pay the negotiated rate, which is sometimes more than the basic commercial fee. Doesn't seem right.

For this reason, I consider supporting Trump's plan to provide money directly to the people instead of making payments directly to the insurance companies. Need to cut out the wasteful middleman, or at least make the insurance companies more competitive. But there is the problem of catastrophe (lots of expensive surgeries), so insurance will still be needed.

 

[dblack]

For this reason, I consider support Trump's plan to provide money directly to the people instead of making payments directly to the insurance companies. Need to cut out the wasteful middleman, or at least make the insurance companies more competitive.

One of the few things Trump has proposed that I agree with. But I'd need to see the details. Something tells me the insurance industry will still have their mitts in it. Do we know if there are restrictions on how the money is spent? That's where the devil's details will live.

 

[MarathonMike]

One of the few things Trump has proposed that I agree with. But I'd need to see the details. Something tells me the insurance industry will still have their mitts in it. Do we know if there are restrictions on how the money is spent? That's where the devil's details will live.

In theory, that seems like the more logical way to go but would obviously open another door to defrauding the government. Maybe some sort of gift card system with the card only redeemable at the hospital providing your services. Just an idea off the top of my head.

 

[dblack]

In theory, that seems like the more logical way to go but would obviously open another door to defrauding the government. Maybe some sort of gift card system with the card only redeemable at the hospital providing your services. Just an idea off the top of my head.

Uh, yeah. No. That's exactly the kind of devil I'm imagining. The actual legislation would surely include the addendum: "only redeemable at the government approved hospital providing your services." Congress needs something to sell.

 

[MarathonMike]

Uh, yeah. No. That's exactly the kind of devil I'm imagining. The actual legislation would surely include the addendum: "only redeemable at the government approved hospital providing your services." Congress needs something to sell.

How do you know what future legislation would or would not include? You don't.

 

[dblack]

How do you know what future legislation would or would not include? You don't.

Up for a wager?

 

[krichton]

So Trump and republicans decided to cancel subsidies but Obama is to blame? The cognitive dissonance is off the chart.

 

[Mashmont]

Obama didn't do it. Republicans did. 15 years of chipping away at the foundations of the plan instead of sitting down and figuring out a solution.

No shit. But that has been the increasing case for over two decades.

There's always a solution. Problem is, no one wants to raise the taxes necessary to begin to help fix the problem.

Sorry, but that "free market" is one of the reasons we are in this position.

That's why people from other countries come here. Because cash goes to the front of the line. Unfortunately, for most Americans, paying cash isn't an option. Most American families can be wiped (bankrupt) out with one un(der)-insured medical incident.


Or, we can put enough pressure on politicians to sit down and fix the issue.

individual mandate was ruled unconstitutional. You can’t force someone to but crap.

 

[Mashmont]

So Trump and republicans decided to cancel subsidies but Obama is to blame? The cognitive dissonance is off the chart.

Why would you throw money on a failed program?

 

[Greenbeard]

For this reason, I consider supporting Trump's plan to provide money directly to the people instead of making payments directly to the insurance companies.

Trump doesn’t want to “provide money directly to the people.” What he wants to do is stop helping people pay their insurance premiums. Instead of putting tax dollars into insurance pools where they ultimately get paid out for health care services people need, he wants to divert those dollars to financial services companies, like HealthEquity, so they can park that money on Wall Street.

He’s not proposing to take money away from health care to give to the people, he’s proposing to take money away from health care to give to the American Bankers Association. All it took was a generous gift to Trump’s super PAC.

HSA companies struck it big in Trump’s tax bill. They’re lobbying for more

Sellers of health savings accounts see an opening for expanding their market, and they’re ramping up lobbying efforts to seize the opportunity.

A group of companies and organizations tied to the HSA industry this year formed a nonprofit called the Great American Health Alliance, or GAHA, a riff on Make America Healthy Again, or MAHA. As a 501(c)(4), GAHA can engage in unlimited lobbying, support political candidates, and avoid disclosing where it gets its money.

Members of GAHA include HealthEquity, one of the largest administrators of HSAs, and the American Bankers Association, which represents institutions holding about 90% of HSAs. GAHA is run by brothers Keith Nahigian, who is the group’s president and has worked for multiple GOP presidential campaigns, and Ken Nahigian, who led the Trump transition in 2017 and was health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s liaison to senators during his confirmation process.

Last month, HealthEquity gave $1 million to President Trump’s super PAC MAGA, Inc., according to a campaign finance report. The newsletter Popular Information first reported that donation.

 

[teddyearp]

Trump doesn’t want to “provide money directly to the people.” What he wants to do is stop helping people pay their insurance premiums. Instead of putting tax dollars into insurance pools where they ultimately get paid out for health care services people need, he wants to divert those dollars to financial services companies, like HealthEquity, so they can park that money on Wall Street.

He’s not proposing to take money away from health care to give to the people, he’s proposing to take money away from health care to give to the American Bankers Association. All it took was a generous gift to Trump’s super PAC.

HSA companies struck it big in Trump’s tax bill. They’re lobbying for more

Ok, yeah, they gave his PAC $1 million. I'm sure I can find some real nefarious contributions to just about any PAC if one wants to. Though off topic, one has to wonder how Ilhan Omar went from a few thousand in net to millions in a year.

But I don't see anything wrong with HSA at all. Looks like win-win to me. You get to make tax deferred contributions and get to treat it like a IRA, where you can invest that money to make more, tax free. I'm making about 12% cash returns on my IRA right now, not counting the increase in value on said stocks. At 12% your money doubles every six years.

 

[Greenbeard]

But I don't see anything wrong with HSA at all. Looks like win-win to me. You get to make tax deferred contributions and get to treat it like a IRA, where you can invest that money to make more, tax free. I'm making about 12% cash returns on my IRA right now, not counting the increase in value on said stocks. At 12% your money doubles every six years.

The issue really isn’t about their historical function as another tax shelter for rich people’s personal funds, it’s whether taxpayer dollars currently paying for Americans’ health care should be siphoned off to Wall Street. Sucking money out of risk pools and redirecting it to financial services firms is what’s on the table.

 

[teddyearp]

The issue really isn’t about their historical function as another tax shelter for rich people’s personal funds, it’s whether taxpayer dollars currently paying for Americans’ health care should be siphoned off to Wall Street. Sucking money out of risk pools and redirecting it to financial services firms is what’s on the table.

If I had a HSA and the .gov decided to instead of paying the insurance companies the ever increasing rates because they have no competition (which is exactly why we are here after the ACA), and puts some into my HSA, I'll not complain one tiny little bit. I'll get to invest that $$$ too. Another win-win for the win!

 

[Greenbeard]

If I had a HSA and the .gov decided to instead of paying the insurance companies the ever increasing rates because they have no competition (which is exactly why we are here after the ACA), and puts some into my HSA, I'll not complain one tiny little bit. I'll get to invest that $$$ too. Another win-win for the win!

We just did the experiment of pumping more dollars into the marketplace risk pools for four years. The results were more customers, more competing insurers, and premiums that were largely flat on average for four straight years. We then pulled those public funds out of risk pools this year, resulting in fewer customers, fewer competing sellers, and a sharp jump in premiums.

And your takeaway is we ought to double down on … the latter.

 

[teddyearp]

We just did the experiment of pumping more dollars into the marketplace risk pools for four years. The results were more customers, more competing insurers, and premiums that were largely flat on average for four straight years. We then pulled those public funds out of risk pools this year, resulting in fewer customers, fewer competing sellers, and a sharp jump in premiums.

And your takeaway is we ought to double down on … the latter.

Do you have a link to those facts? My truth is that the ACA made my insurance premiums skyrocket.

 

[Greenbeard]

Do you have a link to those facts? My truth is that the ACA made my insurance premiums skyrocket.

Open Enrollment Marketplace Plan Selections, 2014-2026 | KFF State Health Facts

State level data on Open Enrollment Marketplace Plan Selections, 2014-2026 from KFF, the leading health policy organization in the U.S.

www.kff.org

Number of Insurers Participating in the Individual Health Insurance Marketplaces | KFF State Health Facts

State level data on Number of Insurers Participating in the Individual Health Insurance Marketplaces from KFF, the leading health policy organization in the U.S.

www.kff.org

Marketplace Average Monthly Benchmark Premiums | KFF State Health Facts

State level data on Marketplace Average Monthly Benchmark Premiums from KFF, the leading health policy organization in the U.S.

www.kff.org

Trump tried the “pull money out of the risk pools” strategy in both 2018 and 2026 and both times we got fewer buyers, fewer competing sellers, and big jumps in premiums.