The Muslim claim to Jerusalem

[teddyearp]

Do you ever watch the news? Most Jews living in Israel could care less abut Jerusalem. Do you know what secular jewism is? You may as well be atheist or agnostic at most. The Palestinians are the ones who believe in God and their holy sites.

Do you ever get out of your box, or should I say, stop feeding at the same trough of bullshit that the rest of you pro-Pali's do when it comes to posting here? By that I mean, every single one of you when presented with a thread that doesn't quite go your way, you get to deflecting. Your tirade about what how religious a Jew is has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter of my thread and OP.

Let me remind you. It is how historically, the Muslims do not really care about Jerusalem. They have only created a care for it in a purely political sense only very recently, several years even after the state of Israel was formed.

But I will give you a kicker. On another forum site where I have several Israeli acquaintances they all value Jerusalem very very much. I read about one who lives in Netanya who recently visited and just loved it and laments the fact that he or she didn't visit sooner. So, there could be some Israelis who in your world do not care about Jerusalem, no it is just that they take it for granted that it is part of their country NOW.

 

[Penelope]

So now we are making a progress! earlier you said Judaism and the Jews have nothing to do with Israel and Zionism so you just said WE DO BELIEVE IN SOMETHING.

No, Zionism is not Judaism, esp. when Biden(not the smartest tool in the shed) said you do not have to be a jew to be a Zionist. So no, I do not see them as the same, as some Christians are Zionist. Your PM is a rabid Zionist. We have non Jew congressmen who would lick the shoes of a rich big shotJew clean to advance his career or become Pres. Very sickening. I am not a Zionist. (like some wacko Christians are).

 

[teddyearp]

I can't respond to this civilly so I'm not going to right now. John Lennon was right when he wrote the song Imagine. Religion is what is wrong with this world, not God, but religions, fundamentalist and radical religion. Religion needs to disappear and we all need to just worship by our actions in life.

That is soo funny, since you are the one that derailed this thread with how religious Israelis are. . . .

 

[Penelope]

Do you ever get out of your box, or should I say, stop feeding at the same trough of bullshit that the rest of you pro-Pali's do when it comes to posting here? By that I mean, every single one of you when presented with a thread that doesn't quite go your way, you get to deflecting. Your tirade about what how religious a Jew is has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject matter of my thread and OP.

Let me remind you. It is how historically, the Muslims do not really care about Jerusalem. They have only created a care for it in a purely political sense only very recently, several years even after the state of Israel was formed.

But I will give you a kicker. On another forum site where I have several Israeli acquaintances they all value Jerusalem very very much. I read about one who lives in Netanya who recently visited and just loved it and laments the fact that he or she didn't visit sooner. So, there could be some Israelis who in your world do not care about Jerusalem, no it is just that they take it for granted that it is part of their country NOW.

How do you know they don't care about Jerusalem? Because you say so? I bet the Palestinians that live there care as much about their mosque and dome of the rock as do the Jewish for the mountain behind the "wailing wall" and some maybe more. Israel wont give an inch, well I think the Palestinians are too proud to live like cattle.

 

[irosie91]

How do you know they don't care about Jerusalem? Because you say so? I bet the Palestinians that live there care as much about their mosque and dome of the rock as do the Jewish for the mountain behind the "wailing wall" and some maybe more. Israel wont give an inch, well I think the Palestinians are too proud to live like cattle.

Penelope---take a look at your "BELIEFS"----you base them
on NOTHING-----you pull them out of your ass. Historically,
jews have been attached to Jerusalem for more than 3000
years. If you ever read the bible you MIGHT know ---if you
understood what the words mean-----you would have a much
more clear concept But you never read the bible. If you
ever read the Koran-----you would also have a more clear
concept and if you knew anything about history-----you would also. You know nothing about the topic of this board other
than islamo Nazi propaganda. My impression of you is that
you were brought up on it.

 

[Penelope]

That is soo funny, since you are the one that derailed this thread with how religious Israelis are. . . .

Heck no, not me. They are many secular Zionist, and I don't believe there are secular Palestinian's. Since I don't drink go and have a beer with your buddy there , I gave him two, and you can BS each other.

 

[Daniyel]

Heck no, not me. They are many secular Zionist, and I don't believe there are secular Palestinian's. Since I don't drink go and have a beer with your buddy there , I gave him two, and you can BS each other.

There are many secular Palestinians, in fact a big part of the Palestinians are secular (the Muslim) and the Christians are pretty much like other Christians who do go to church on Sunday and practice some Christian rituals but nothing beyond that, and if you want the Muslim example, so pretty much like Muslims who fasting publicly during Ramadan but not the entire Ramadan, or doesn't go to the Mosque in 5 AM.
I can say that at least 70% of the Palestinians are so called 'secular' as I described above, here in Israel we consider it 'Traditional' like me, except that I'm Jewish.

 

[irosie91]

Heck no, not me. They are many secular Zionist, and I don't believe there are secular Palestinian's. Since I don't drink go and have a beer with your buddy there , I gave him two, and you can BS each other.

I am fascinated-----no secular Palestinians? LOL-----
do you live under a rock? If by Palestinians you are
referring to the muslim kind-------I got news for you. I will
help you to understand. Since I do things that a ritual
adherent jew does not do------like riding in a car on Saturday--
I AM CALLED a "secular" jew. Muslims who do things like-----drink beer-------would----if the principle holds true----be called "secular muslims" I have known lots of muslims in my life---LOTS-----like more than 100 ----well enough to socialize-----visit them at home----etc etc ALMOST all muslims I have known have been SECULAR MUSLIMS-----
I have never met a religious Iranian--------even Pakistanis are
not all that religious----just HYSTERICALLY nationalistic about ISLAAAAAM. Your model re "secular" is really silly--------it suggests to me that you have not known either lots of muslims or lots of jews. Your "beliefs" about both
are learned from islamo Nazi literature and your own head

 

[teddyearp]

How do you know they don't care about Jerusalem? Because you say so? I bet the Palestinians that live there care as much about their mosque and dome of the rock as do the Jewish for the mountain behind the "wailing wall" and some maybe more. Israel wont give an inch, well I think the Palestinians are too proud to live like cattle.

You therefore have obviously not read the OP, nor the article linked in it. You must have been taught at the school of "P F Tinmore's school of how to deflect and derail threads at the Israel/Palestine section of USMB"

 

[teddyearp]

Heck no, not me. They are many secular Zionist, and I don't believe there are secular Palestinian's. Since I don't drink go and have a beer with your buddy there , I gave him two, and you can BS each other.

And just exactly where did this come from? What do you know about me and what buddy are you talking about?

 

[teddyearp]

So, since you Penelope have forgotten what this thread is about, let me remind you. The title is "The Muslim claim to Jerusalem" Here again is the article from which I was inspired to create this thread (the self same article that you linked in another thread):

The Muslim Claim to Jerusalem :: Daniel Pipes

Some excerpts:

What about Muslims? Where does Jerusalem fit in Islam and Muslim history? It is not the place to which they pray, is not once mentioned by name in prayers, and it is connected to no mundane events in Muhammad's life. The city never served as capital of a sovereign Muslim state, and it never became a cultural or scholarly center. Little of political import by Muslims was initiated there.

After the Qur'an repudiated Jerusalem, so did the Muslims: the first description of the town under Muslim rule comes from the visiting Bishop Arculf, a Gallic pilgrim, in 680, who reported seeing "an oblong house of prayer, which they [the Muslims] pieced together with upright planks and large beams over some ruined remains." Not for the last time, safely under Muslim control, Jerusalem became a backwater.

This episode set the mold that would be repeated many times over succeeding centuries: Muslims take interest religiously in Jerusalem because of pressing but temporary concerns. Then, when those concerns lapse, so does the focus on Jerusalem, and the city's standing greatly diminishes.

Then, in 715, to build up the prestige of their dominions, the Umayyads did a most clever thing: they built a second mosque in Jerusalem, again on the Temple Mount, and called this one the Furthest Mosque (al-masjid al-aqsa, Al-Aqsa Mosque). With this, the Umayyads retroactively gave the city a role in Muhammad's life.

But once safely back in Muslim hands, interest in Jerusalem again dropped; "the simple fact soon emerged that al-Quds was not essential to the security of an empire based in Egypt or Syria. Accordingly, in times of political or military crisis, the city proved to be expendable," writes Donald P. Little of McGill University. In particular, in 1219, when the Europeans attacked Egypt in the Fifth Crusade, a grandson of Saladin named al-Mu'azzam decided to raze the walls around Jerusalem, fearing that were the Franks to take the city with walls, "they will kill all whom they find there and will have the fate of Damascus and lands of Islam in their hands." Pulling down Jerusalem's fortifications had the effect of prompting a mass exodus from the city and its steep decline.

Also at this time, the Muslim ruler of Egypt and Palestine, al-Kamil (another of Saladin's grandsons and the brother of al-Mu'azzam), offered to trade Jerusalem to the Europeans if only the latter would leave Egypt, but he had no takers. Ten years later, in 1229, just such a deal was reached when al-Kamil did cede Jerusalem to Emperor Friedrich II; in return, the German leader promised military aid to al-Kamil against al-Mu'azzam, now a rival king. Al-Kamil insisted that the Temple Mount remain in Muslim hands and "all the practices of Islam" continued to be exercised there, a condition Friedrich complied with. Referring to his deal with Frederick, al-Kamil wrote in a remarkably revealing description of Jerusalem, "I conceded to the Franks only ruined churches and houses." In other words, the city that had been heroically regained by Saladin in 1187 was voluntarily traded away by his grandson just forty-two years later.

Need I go on? But in your article, I also found more cities that have historically ranked higher than Jerusalem to the Muslims, here is just one exerpt:

So insignificant was Jerusalem, it was sometimes a mere appendage to the governorship of Nablus or Gaza. Nor was scholarship cultivated: in 1670, a traveler reported that standards had dropped so low that even the preacher at Al-Aqsa Mosque spoke a low standard of literary Arabic.

NEXT?!?

 

[Penelope]

There are many secular Palestinians, in fact a big part of the Palestinians are secular (the Muslim) and the Christians are pretty much like other Christians who do go to church on Sunday and practice some Christian rituals but nothing beyond that, and if you want the Muslim example, so pretty much like Muslims who fasting publicly during Ramadan but not the entire Ramadan, or doesn't go to the Mosque in 5 AM.
I can say that at least 70% of the Palestinians are so called 'secular' as I described above, here in Israel we consider it 'Traditional' like me, except that I'm Jewish.

Really secular Palestinians, that surprises me, well then I can't see why there is such a big problem. Its can't be religious so it has to be land and oil off in the sea and on some boarder there (that there is squabbling over) Possibly Hamas is not good, but I can understand they want the entrapment gone and some of their land back. From what I hear there is plenty of oil there, enough for Israel to be independent and ever sell some. I know the gov of Israel will not stop till they have all the land. I know that deep down inside, and to be frank your gov. as you know will create false flags to gain their goal. I also
find this to be a huge problem, The ADL are in and of themselves spreading hate, and creating anti Semitism. They are getting old and to be frank , we have freedom of speech and so if the ADL doesn't like what someone says they have no right to call them names. They cause more problems than good.

Poll: 93% of Palestinians hold anti-Jewish beliefs
Global survey by ADL reveals that almost half the world does not know that the Holocaust happened; suggests over 1 billion people are anti-Semitic
By Rebecca Shimoni Stoil May 13, 2014, 5:40 pm 163

Read more: Poll: 93% of Palestinians hold anti-Jewish beliefs | The Times of Israelhttp://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-93-of-palestinians-hold-anti-jewish-beliefs/#ixzz3AtJCvg00
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

 

[Indeependent]

The Jews...So ******* smart there's no way to beat them.
Why, post ONE thing against them and...you're STILL connected to the Internet.

 

[Grendelyn]

I think you both need to read the History of Palestine, yes its a wiki article but it will show that actually the Israelites had very little to do with the History of Palestine. The only right they have is by their OT which says God told Abraham , Isaac and Jacob, well God is not a man nor does he have vocal cords ok. so they were talking to themselves.

If everyone would read the history of Palestine on Wiki you will see the Palestine, Jews, and Christians all have a right to the land, and I might add, Muslims held the land for longer periods than the Jews did. I know its long but try to make it through it.

History of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Excellent point, Penelope! Too, since the Canaanites were the first inhabitants of this land making them the rightful owners of it and since the 1911 Encyclopedia states that, "t is by no means unreasonable to suppose that there is a fundamental Canaanite element in this population [of Palestine]," a reasonable mind must therefore conclude that the Arab Muslims alone must have assimilated with the Canaanites (since Yahweh forbid Jews from having anything to do with them), making the Muslims of today having the more perfect claim to it over anyone else.

 

[Indeependent]

Excellent point, Penelope! Too, since the Canaanites were the first inhabitants of this land making them the rightful owners of it and since the 1911 Encyclopedia states that, "t is by no means unreasonable to suppose that there is a fundamental Canaanite element in this population [of Palestine]," a reasonable mind must therefore conclude that the Arab Muslims alone must have assimilated with the Canaanites (since Yahweh forbid Jews from having anything to do with them), making the Muslims of today having the more perfect claim to it over anyone else.

I guess you're gonna have to decide whether or not you actually believe in Yahweh or not.
First of all, you have proven you're an ass hole with, "Yahweh forbid Jews from having anything to do with them"; like, show me the verse.
If you believe in the Torah, God took it away from the Canaanites.
If you DON'T believe in the Torah, your post was a complete waste.

 

[Grendelyn]

I guess you're gonna have to decide whether or not you actually believe in Yahweh or not.
First of all, you have proven you're an ass hole with, "Yahweh forbid Jews from having anything to do with them"; like, show me the verse.
If you believe in the Torah, God took it away from the Canaanites.
If you DON'T believe in the Torah, your post was a complete waste.

I do not believe in Yahweh or any other mythical deity for I am an atheist. If you actually believe Yahweh condoned the Israelites having anything to do with the Canaanites, with the exception of brutally slaughtering them, you simply do not know what you are talking about. BTW, there is nothing wrong with being an as*h*le, for unlike you, it serves a good purpose

 

[Hossfly]

Excellent point, Penelope! Too, since the Canaanites were the first inhabitants of this land making them the rightful owners of it and since the 1911 Encyclopedia states that, "t is by no means unreasonable to suppose that there is a fundamental Canaanite element in this population [of Palestine]," a reasonable mind must therefore conclude that the Arab Muslims alone must have assimilated with the Canaanites (since Yahweh forbid Jews from having anything to do with them), making the Muslims of today having the more perfect claim to it over anyone else.

PISH POOH PSHAW---We are getting the 1911 Encyclopaedia pulled up again.I thought someone in the past was caught changing what was actually said. Deja vu?

 

[Grendelyn]

PISH POOH PSHAW---We are getting the 1911 Encyclopaedia pulled up again.I thought someone in the past was caught changing what was actually said. Deja vu?

Yes, hello Hossfly, it's nice to see you and thank you for remembering me; however, it's unfortunate that you're still confused as to what actually took place.

 

[Hossfly]

Yes, hello Hossfly, it's nice to see you and thank you for remembering me; however, it's unfortunate that you're still confused as to what actually took place.

I'm not a bit confused, Pishy, because I remember how you played footsie with a certain Canadian Neo-Nazi and ended up in a tete-a-tete on the pages of Stormfront.And I do remember someone calling you out for changing the words in the 1911 Encyclopaedia to suit your own purpose.

 

[Grendelyn]

I'm not a bit confused, Pishy, because I remember how you played footsie with a certain Canadian Neo-Nazi and ended up in a tete-a-tete on the pages of Stormfront.And I do remember someone calling you out for changing the words in the 1911 Encyclopaedia to suit your own purpose.

Nonsense, Housefly, you really are confused because learning from a board individual such like things as the initial claimed four million Auschwitz death toll having been lowered to somewhere around one million can in no way be considered as having "played footsie" with anyone by any stretch of a rational imagination. ~ Grendelyn
PS As a childish way to discredit me without thoroughly having looked into the matter, it's unfortunate that you took as Gospel the word of a fellow idiot Zionist as to what he believed I said or didn't say.