The most difficult reality to explain/justify about God, "why is there so much evil?"

[shockedcanadian]

It's important to define ''good'' and ''evil''.

Which you cannot do, without some sort of objective definition. No, "because my preferred sky daddy said so" doesn't cut it.

Science can better answer these questions.

"My preferred Sky Daddy said so". Prove me wrong.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

As long as it doesn't mention a creator, you'll go along with ANY theory.

Also false, stupid, and whiny. There you go again, playing with your dollies.

 

[K9Buck]

No, that's retarded and whiny. What I believe is good is giving women power over their own reproductive aystems. It's a triumph of humanity. And all empowerment of women is done in spite of your little iron aged fetishes.

You have been deceived. You are a servant of Satan, and you don't even know it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's important to define ''good'' and ''evil''.

Which you cannot do, without some sort of objective definition. No, "because my preferred sky daddy said so" doesn't cut it.

Science can better answer these questions.

"My preferred Sky Daddy said so". Prove me wrong.

Why? That's not how anything works. Its nobody's job to disprove every crazy claim a guy on a corner with a sandwich sign and a bullhorn makes. You're free to believe any silly, childish nonsense you like. When you have to convince someone else to accept it is when you run into the brick wall.

 

[Mac1958]

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth

I think this is just where we are at this point in our evolution, and that we'll continue to progress if we don't destroy ourselves first.

Our baser instincts, such as greed, tribalism ideology (such as fundamentalist politics or fundamentalist religion), dishonesty, pride and envy are still deeply embedded. And for most of us, it's still a conscious effort to mitigate those impulses.

It could be thousands of years before we work this out of our system, unless advances in technology somehow accelerate the process.
.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, that's retarded and whiny. What I believe is good is giving women power over their own reproductive aystems. It's a triumph of humanity. And all empowerment of women is done in spite of your little iron aged fetishes.

You have been deceived. You are a servant of Satan, and you don't even know it.

Sorry shaman,your magical horseshit holds no weight outside of your own mind.

 

[shockedcanadian]

It's important to define ''good'' and ''evil''.

Which you cannot do, without some sort of objective definition. No, "because my preferred sky daddy said so" doesn't cut it.

Science can better answer these questions.

"My preferred Sky Daddy said so". Prove me wrong.

Why? That's not how anything works. Its nobody's job to disprove every crazy claim a guy on a corner with a sandwich sign and a bullhorn makes. You're free to believe any silly, childish nonsense you like. When you have to convince someone else to accept it is when you run into the brick wall.

Ah I see, so we are both right. That's the kind of attitude I like to hear.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ah I see, so we are both right.

No, of course, that is stupid. Something doesnt become "right" just because nobody can prove it wrong. Look at the idiotic position your magical hooha is forcing you to take....

 

[shockedcanadian]

Ah I see, so we are both right.

No, of course, that is stupid. Something doesnt become "right" just because nobody can prove it wrong. Look at the idiotic position your magical hooha is forcing you to take....

You and I both know that nobody knows if there is a God or not, nor is the Big Bang theory anything but a theory, with massive holes. Some of the most basic laws such as the law that we cannot create or destroy matter makes the Big Bang quite unlikely. This is just one of many problems with the theory.

Even evolution, which I tend to at least consider based on characteristics of various species in different climates; does not prove an amoeba became a human over billions of years. Just as dinosaurs were one broad category, there are hundreds of species within it. How and why did evolution choose them over our current crop?

I figure, the circular argument of God and who made God is impossible to overcome, but, the idea that something created all of this is more logical than "stuff just appeared out of nowhere and here we are". That's about as unscientific as it comes. Especially when, like dinosaur bones, there are examples of biblical evidence, not withstanding the historic books themselves (which I admit, have many holes also).

 

[night_son]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

The answer is plain enough for many. God gave absolute freewill to man on the day of his creation. Now, the way in which I personally interpret this is God trusted man to do the "right" thing more often than not. In other words, God trusted man to have the personal responsibility to not eradicate himself right off the bat. That said, since time immemorial, one minority segment of mankind has been out to convince the rest of us how evil is a relative or subjective concept; an idea completely situational in nature. See, man is his own worst enemy in that regard because the accumulation of wealth and power over other human beings is an ugly affair, one requiring no small amount of constant justification to those you're setting out to oppress, and self-justification or reassurance that doing evil for one's own gain can be spun as somehow morally good or at least acceptable enough to allow for a good night's sleep.

Tabula rasa. The newborn human mind is the perfect medium for perception and learning and mortal creation, or destruction. No man is born inherently evil nor a moral paragon. We learn these behaviors up to a point. However, I have always believed a child will natively lean toward the good, right and just in the absence of conditioning toward that end, rather than develop organically a base human wickedness. However we look at this primordial issue, the truth remains, it is us up to each of us in the end to embrace personal responsibility and be valuable to our species and families; to put fourth the great personal effort to be good, honest, reasonable and merciful and compassionate outside of imminent threats to our existence.

The greatest threat to human civilization overall I believe is moral relativism or the denial of the existence of indelible good and evil. Universal truths exist. Our American civilization is founded upon and depends on them to continue forward. Should our leaders lose themselves in subjective reality, moral relativism, factual relativism, moral nihilism, etc. civilization will end and chaos will reign. Unfortunately, in our Age and era of civilization, our civilization depends on tolerating a degree of hedonism in the ruling classes, as well as a degree of voluntary lack of desiring wealth. We give our leaders release to enrich themselves in exchange for their public service and adherence to our founding documents and the philosophies and ethos they embody. Speaking to America in particular, the good news is just about anyone can work their asses off to climb to wealth and success, a unique case in the whole of human history. Some men will always exploit the rest for power and great sums of money. Most would argue this is a necessary evil. However, the Marxist Religion seeks to trade one evil, the hedonist's domination of Western Society, for a bait and switch promise of rule by the working class, which always works out as Marxist party leaders becoming the new hedonist authoritarians.

What else can be said other than, "pick your poison and move on?"

 

[alang1216]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

Maybe you and God disagree about what is evil and what is not. This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

As for physical pain, it is the way your body tells you it's in trouble

This is a being that punishes or kills innocent men, women, children, and animals.

Yeah, sure HE does. <SARCASM>.

That's what the Bible says, you should read it sometime. Punishments are carried across 4 generations so my great-great-grandson will be punished for my sins. And he has yet to be born.

 

[Confounding]

Ah I see, so we are both right.

No, of course, that is stupid. Something doesnt become "right" just because nobody can prove it wrong. Look at the idiotic position your magical hooha is forcing you to take....

You and I both know that nobody knows if there is a God or not, nor is the Big Bang theory anything but a theory, with massive holes. Some of the most basic laws such as the law that we cannot create or destroy matter makes the Big Bang quite unlikely. This is just one of many problems with the theory.

Even evolution, which I tend to at least consider based on characteristics of various species in different climates; does not prove an amoeba became a human over billions of years. Just as dinosaurs were one broad category, there are hundreds of species within it. How and why did evolution choose them over our current crop?

I figure, the circular argument of God and who made God is impossible to overcome, but, the idea that something created all of this is more logical than "stuff just appeared out of nowhere and here we are". That's about as unscientific as it comes. Especially when, like dinosaur bones, there are examples of biblical evidence, not withstanding the historic books themselves (which I admit, have many holes also).

You're wasting your time. The objective is for him to feel superior to you because it makes his life a little less depressing. He's not going to do anything but reinforce his belief that you are stupid.

 

[alang1216]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

The answer is plain enough for many. God gave absolute freewill to man on the day of his creation. Now, the way in which I personally interpret this is God trusted man to do the "right" thing more often than not. In other words, God trusted man to have the personal responsibility to not eradicate himself right off the bat. That said, since time immemorial, one minority segment of mankind has been out to convince the rest of us how evil is a relative or subjective concept; an idea completely situational in nature. See, man is his own worst enemy in that regard because the accumulation of wealth and power over other human beings is an ugly affair, one requiring no small amount of constant justification to those you're setting out to oppress, and self-justification or reassurance that doing evil for one's own gain can be spun as somehow morally good or at least acceptable enough to allow for a good night's sleep.

Tabula rasa. The newborn human mind is the perfect medium for perception and learning and mortal creation, or destruction. No man is born inherently evil nor a moral paragon. We learn these behaviors up to a point. However, I have always believed a child will natively lean toward the good, right and just in the absence of conditioning toward that end, rather than develop organically a base human wickedness. However we look at this primordial issue, the truth remains, it is us up to each of us in the end to embrace personal responsibility and be valuable to our species and families; to put fourth the great personal effort to be good, honest, reasonable and merciful and compassionate outside of imminent threats to our existence.

The greatest threat to human civilization overall I believe is moral relativism or the denial of the existence of indelible good and evil. Universal truths exist. Our American civilization is founded upon and depends on them to continue forward. Should our leaders lose themselves in subjective reality, moral relativism, factual relativism, moral nihilism, etc. civilization will end and chaos will reign. Unfortunately, in our Age and era of civilization, our civilization depends on tolerating a degree of hedonism in the ruling classes, as well as a degree of voluntary lack of desiring wealth. We give our leaders release to enrich themselves in exchange for their public service and adherence to our founding documents and the philosophies and ethos they embody. Speaking to America in particular, the good news is just about anyone can work their asses off to climb to wealth and success, a unique case in the whole of human history. Some men will always exploit the rest for power and great sums of money. Most would argue this is a necessary evil. However, the Marxist Religion seeks to trade one evil, the hedonist's domination of Western Society, for a bait and switch promise of rule by the working class, which always works out as Marxist party leaders becoming the new hedonist authoritarians.

What else can be said other than, "pick your poison and move on?"

You may not wish to believe that morality evolves but that is the truth. The Bible is an excellent example of moral relativism. The OT is essentially and eye for an eye while the NT is turn the other cheek. As society evolves, its morality is reflected in its religions.

 

[night_son]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

The answer is plain enough for many. God gave absolute freewill to man on the day of his creation. Now, the way in which I personally interpret this is God trusted man to do the "right" thing more often than not. In other words, God trusted man to have the personal responsibility to not eradicate himself right off the bat. That said, since time immemorial, one minority segment of mankind has been out to convince the rest of us how evil is a relative or subjective concept; an idea completely situational in nature. See, man is his own worst enemy in that regard because the accumulation of wealth and power over other human beings is an ugly affair, one requiring no small amount of constant justification to those you're setting out to oppress, and self-justification or reassurance that doing evil for one's own gain can be spun as somehow morally good or at least acceptable enough to allow for a good night's sleep.

Tabula rasa. The newborn human mind is the perfect medium for perception and learning and mortal creation, or destruction. No man is born inherently evil nor a moral paragon. We learn these behaviors up to a point. However, I have always believed a child will natively lean toward the good, right and just in the absence of conditioning toward that end, rather than develop organically a base human wickedness. However we look at this primordial issue, the truth remains, it is us up to each of us in the end to embrace personal responsibility and be valuable to our species and families; to put fourth the great personal effort to be good, honest, reasonable and merciful and compassionate outside of imminent threats to our existence.

The greatest threat to human civilization overall I believe is moral relativism or the denial of the existence of indelible good and evil. Universal truths exist. Our American civilization is founded upon and depends on them to continue forward. Should our leaders lose themselves in subjective reality, moral relativism, factual relativism, moral nihilism, etc. civilization will end and chaos will reign. Unfortunately, in our Age and era of civilization, our civilization depends on tolerating a degree of hedonism in the ruling classes, as well as a degree of voluntary lack of desiring wealth. We give our leaders release to enrich themselves in exchange for their public service and adherence to our founding documents and the philosophies and ethos they embody. Speaking to America in particular, the good news is just about anyone can work their asses off to climb to wealth and success, a unique case in the whole of human history. Some men will always exploit the rest for power and great sums of money. Most would argue this is a necessary evil. However, the Marxist Religion seeks to trade one evil, the hedonist's domination of Western Society, for a bait and switch promise of rule by the working class, which always works out as Marxist party leaders becoming the new hedonist authoritarians.

What else can be said other than, "pick your poison and move on?"

You may not wish to believe that morality evolves but that is the truth. The Bible is an excellent example of moral relativism. The OT is essentially and eye for an eye while the NT is turn the other cheek. As society evolves, its morality is reflected in its religions.

I disagree. The Old Testament is both a set in stone universe and epochal ethos unto itself. Man sinned. Man's soul died with his body. The New Testament is not, in my opinion a moral evolution of that state of physical and metaphysical reality, but rather a second chapter of the same primordial moral code. In the Old Testament God represented final moral authority or arbiter of judgement of a man's life's worth at it's end. In the New Testament, God sends his son, or Logos in the flesh, which is essentially God's primordial moral code incarnate, to offer mankind a means or way of regaining the immortality lost in the Garden of Eden. God's moral code and consequence of violating it never changes from Genesis to the first book of the New Testament. Think about it. Eat the fruit of knowledge without permission, lose immortality. Fail to follow Christ's path of salvation (which is permission to eat the fruit, but on specific terms) and suffer the same fate. We humans always had the choice for salvation according to adherence to personal responsibility, from choosing not to eat of the fruit, to living according to God's moral code and not bringing down his wrath in the flood, to much later following Christ's path to salvation. I would not consider God's sending his Son as moral relativism on God's part, but as simple forgiveness and the offering of a second chance at eternal life.

 

[Taz]

"why is there so much evil?"

Because we are made in god's image. He's the guy that drowned nearly everyone because he was mad.

 

[task0778]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

I think this discussion has to begin with an assumption that God exists. Cuz if God doesn't exist then it's all random chaos with no order or meaning. If that is the case, there is no reason or answer to "why", it just "is". So, for purposes of this discussion, we're working on the assumption that God exists.

That being the assumption, then let's talk about every species on the planet. Why do big things eat little things, why are there predators and prey? Does it have to be that way? First of all, it's doubtful that humanity would have survived as a species without the benefits of eating meat they managed to get either by killing something or scavenging what some other animal killed. We'd be just another primate if we always ate nothing but fruits, nuts, and berries, etc.

I don't know, maybe that was not what God had in store for humanity. Maybe that right there is the reason, so humanity would evolve to where it could think, reason, and learn. For whatever reason, life on this planet evolved primarily as a result of life forms eating other life forms. That and climate change. So, stop and ask yourself a question: what would have happened if God determined that there would be no killing? Would life have evolved much in the 1st place? Why would life have ever left the ocean in the 1st place? What would have been the reason for developing a complex brain if all you had to do was go find food and eat it.

For whatever reason, perhaps God wanted a species that could think and learn to solve problems. God could have created that species the way he wanted it in the 1st place, but maybe the concept of killing needed to exist for that species to have a challenge to overcome. Why? Each of us will have to figure that out for themselves if they want to, or just throw it all on God's will and live one day at a time. Or use it as an excuse to say "see, God doesn't exist cuz he allows killing and suffering".

Animals kill because they have to, not because they want to. For us, maybe we've got to get to the point we don't have to and should not want to kill. God has given us the choice, as individuals and collectively, not to kill. God has also given us the capability to avoid killing by using our brains to survive by other means. Why did God do that? Don't know, but I'm also not sure it matters because IMHO a reverence for all life should exist in each of us whether you believe in God or not.

 

[Penelope]

I think you mean , why in the heck didn't he create heaven first. I quite agree. He could of and should of. ​

 

[harmonica]

I'm not just referring to humans, we are certainly the most sadistic of creatures, far too often deliberately, often taking pleasure in others pain. I also think about the Animal Kingdom in which instinctive responses or need to sustain oneself requires hunting and eating other creatures.

I've heard some strong explanations such as "we need evil to know what good is" etc. However, the abundance of suffering, just the physiological system of nerves and sensors that elicit pain, it's always been difficult for me to understand why God created earths creatures this way.

In fairness, I don't even know why this makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint either when I think are probably better ways to have been built (even as the human body and brain is the most complex on earth).

..you are correct = god's supposed creations/laws/etc do not make sense
...it's not really '''evil'' = it's just humans being human
......EVERY human naturally gets angry/hateful/jealous/etc ......some have been born different physiologically = they will react differently to these emotions ....

 

[Meriweather]

That's what the Bible says, you should read it sometime. Punishments are carried across 4 generations so my great-great-grandson will be punished for my sins. And he has yet to be born.

Another Bible passage says the children will not be punished for the sins of the Father. Why the dichotomy? One passage is speaking about what the father owes for his wrong-doing will not be taken out on his children. The other is talking about consequences of acts. I can see this clearly being played out in my own family. An action of my brothers affected him, his children, his grandchildren, and yes, I can see seeds that it might also be affecting his great-grandchildren. That paths we choose in life may indeed have a lasting affect.

 

[Meriweather]

You may not wish to believe that morality evolves but that is the truth. The Bible is an excellent example of moral relativism. The OT is essentially and eye for an eye while the NT is turn the other cheek. As society evolves, its morality is reflected in its religions.

The Old Testament reflects justice. For example, if you knock out someone's tooth, he cannot retaliating by plucking out your eye.