The moral law

[ding]

Morals can be anything we want them to be.

Correct, they are. That is why they are best defined by reason and empirical knowledge, instead of gut feelings, old religious myths, and cultural trends.

I addressed this in the OP.

 

[ding]

What you are describing is the natural

Oh look, that term again. It's easy to toss about undefined terms, when you can wriggle out from any interpretation of them. But, for sure, you will never define or delineate this meaningless term.

It’s pretty common knowledge. I’m surprised you don’t know what natural law is.

Natural law - Wikipedia

The Natural Law Tradition in Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

natural law | Definition, Theory, & Ethics

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Natural Law

https://sas-space.sas.ac.uk/3766/1/1348-1484-1-SM.pdf

 

[Mindful]

Mine is to do unto others as I would have them do unto me.

Does your god live by that?

If so, explain his purposeless torture and death for the vast majority of us that scriptures say will end in hell.

Regards
DL

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

 

[ding]

Mine is to do unto others as I would have them do unto me.

Does your god live by that?

If so, explain his purposeless torture and death for the vast majority of us that scriptures say will end in hell.

Regards
DL

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

 

[Mindful]

Mine is to do unto others as I would have them do unto me.

Does your god live by that?

If so, explain his purposeless torture and death for the vast majority of us that scriptures say will end in hell.

Regards
DL

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

 

[ding]

Mine is to do unto others as I would have them do unto me.

Does your god live by that?

If so, explain his purposeless torture and death for the vast majority of us that scriptures say will end in hell.

Regards
DL

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

 

[Mindful]

Does your god live by that?

If so, explain his purposeless torture and death for the vast majority of us that scriptures say will end in hell.

Regards
DL

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

 

[alang1216]

As an atheist, I think you're engaging in some wishful thinking. Morals can be anything we want them to be, unfortunate but true. The 'we' being society not individuals. Some of the most brutal and immoral societies, at least IMHO, have been the most successful. Premier in my mind is the Roman Empire but I'd guess that most successful, pre-modern societies acted in a similar manner.

You are wrong. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle known to man.

If that is true you should be able to provide plenty of examples from history and they should come from everywhere.

You don’t believe it can be solved by inspection using your own experiences as a proxy?

No I don't. Crime and corruption often pay big dividends.

 

[ding]

You claim to be a Gnostic Christian, right?

how many Gods do you believe exist?

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

So if you only believe there is one, why bring up man’s perception of God as proof there are many?

 

[ding]

As an atheist, I think you're engaging in some wishful thinking. Morals can be anything we want them to be, unfortunate but true. The 'we' being society not individuals. Some of the most brutal and immoral societies, at least IMHO, have been the most successful. Premier in my mind is the Roman Empire but I'd guess that most successful, pre-modern societies acted in a similar manner.

You are wrong. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle known to man.

If that is true you should be able to provide plenty of examples from history and they should come from everywhere.

You don’t believe it can be solved by inspection using your own experiences as a proxy?

No I don't. Crime and corruption often pay big dividends.

Really?

so you don’t have personal relationships that are based on each party being virtuous?

 

[Mindful]

How many?

There's a whole committee of them 'up there'.

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

So if you only believe there is one, why bring up man’s perception of God as proof there are many?

I didn't. You said I did.

 

[ding]

How many Gods do you believe exist?

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

So if you only believe there is one, why bring up man’s perception of God as proof there are many?

I didn't. You said I did.

You didn’t say you didn’t.

so the point stands

 

[Mindful]

Ah.

I knew that was coming. You want me to bare my soul to you? Again?

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

So if you only believe there is one, why bring up man’s perception of God as proof there are many?

I didn't. You said I did.

You didn’t say you didn’t.

Didn't l?

 

[alang1216]

I believe you and I have a different understanding of what successful means. But putting that aside, do you believe that comparing how one nation treats other nations is the correct way of looking at things?

let’s use the USSR as an example. They did not treat their own people with virtue. Do you define them as being successful?

Comparing how one nation treats other nations is a very problematic of looking at things. Is the US virtuous? Did the US topple foreign governments and create real trouble (e.g., Iran)?

The USSR did not treat their own people with virtue and was not successful. Modern China did not treat their own people with virtue and is successful.

 

[alang1216]

so you don’t have personal relationships that are based on each party being virtuous?

I'm not sure I have any such relationships. Mine are based on self interest: my family brings me feelings of pride and joy, my friends do things with me that I enjoy, my employer pays me to do stuff.

 

[ding]

No. Just to provide a number.

I know there was one frowning down at me as I was swimming in the pool under the mountain, last year in The Levant.

So if you only believe there is one, why bring up man’s perception of God as proof there are many?

I didn't. You said I did.

You didn’t say you didn’t.

Didn't l?

Correct. You played your usual games. Be that as it may, you were making an argument you yourself do not believe.

 

[ding]

so you don’t have personal relationships that are based on each party being virtuous?

I'm not sure I have any such relationships. Mine are based on self interest: my family brings me feelings of pride and joy, my friends do things with me that I enjoy, my employer pays me to do stuff.

So you seek out people who are devoid of virtue? You know, people who behave dishonesty, cruelly, etc.

 

[ding]

I believe you and I have a different understanding of what successful means. But putting that aside, do you believe that comparing how one nation treats other nations is the correct way of looking at things?

let’s use the USSR as an example. They did not treat their own people with virtue. Do you define them as being successful?

Comparing how one nation treats other nations is a very problematic of looking at things. Is the US virtuous? Did the US topple foreign governments and create real trouble (e.g., Iran)?

The USSR did not treat their own people with virtue and was not successful. Modern China did not treat their own people with virtue and is successful.

Actually it’s not. It’s no different than personal relationships.

people prefer to associate with people of good will. It’s no different for nations.

 

[alang1216]

so you don’t have personal relationships that are based on each party being virtuous?

I'm not sure I have any such relationships. Mine are based on self interest: my family brings me feelings of pride and joy, my friends do things with me that I enjoy, my employer pays me to do stuff.

So you seek out people who are devoid of virtue? You know, people who behave dishonesty, cruelly, etc.

I've never met anyone completely devoid of virtue or anyone who is 100% dishonest or cruel. I only know human beings, who are you talking about?

 

[alang1216]

I believe you and I have a different understanding of what successful means. But putting that aside, do you believe that comparing how one nation treats other nations is the correct way of looking at things?

let’s use the USSR as an example. They did not treat their own people with virtue. Do you define them as being successful?

Comparing how one nation treats other nations is a very problematic of looking at things. Is the US virtuous? Did the US topple foreign governments and create real trouble (e.g., Iran)?

The USSR did not treat their own people with virtue and was not successful. Modern China did not treat their own people with virtue and is successful.

Actually it’s not. It’s no different than personal relationships.

people prefer to associate with people of good will. It’s no different for nations.

Sorry but that is not how the world works. The US was no fan of the USSR but we provided them plenty of aid when they were fighting Nazis. We don't look for virtue in nations, only shared self-interest.