The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith

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The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith
10 Aug 2023 ~~ By Jonathan Turley

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.
Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.
Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.
~Snip~
Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen. Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.
Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.
~Snip~
The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is the “worst [judge] Trump could have got.”
Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.
That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried. And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


Commentary:
If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison. Notably our 46th president that as been caught in a myriad of lies.
It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge Tanya S. Chutka was chosen.
Today the majority of America believes that Trump is bein persecuted and Biden and his family are bein protected by the weaponized DoJ and FBI.
Under the regime of the Joe Biden and is Merry Maoist Marxist DSA Democrat cabal, these madmen madmen have taken us back to: the days of `the Inquisition`. You will now be charged for `Thoughtcrimes`.
 
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
They are not always protected. There is a thing called fraud. I find it strange that a law professor hasn’t heard of this.

If I sell you a watch that I claim is a Rolex, but it’s actually a fake, I’m in trouble. The constitution does not protect my ability to claim something is a Rolex when it’s not.
 
They are not always protected. There is a thing called fraud. I find it strange that a law professor hasn’t heard of this.

If I sell you a watch that I claim is a Rolex, but it’s actually a fake, I’m in trouble. The constitution does not protect my ability to claim something is a Rolex when it’s not.

Why don't you school Jonathan Turley
You imbecile.
 

The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith
10 Aug 2023 ~~ By Jonathan Turley

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.
Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.
Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.
~Snip~
Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen. Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.
Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.
~Snip~
The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is the “worst [judge] Trump could have got.”
Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.
That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried. And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


Commentary:
If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison. Notably our 46th president that as been caught in a myriad of lies.
It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge Tanya S. Chutka was chosen.
Today the majority of America believes that Trump is bein persecuted and Biden and his family are bein protected by the weaponized DoJ and FBI.
Under the regime of the Joe Biden and is Merry Maoist Marxist DSA Democrat cabal, these madmen madmen have taken us back to: the days of `the Inquisition`. You will now be charged for `Thoughtcrimes`.
 

The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith
10 Aug 2023 ~~ By Jonathan Turley

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.
Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.
Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.
~Snip~
Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen. Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.
Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.
~Snip~
The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is the “worst [judge] Trump could have got.”
Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.
That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried. And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


Commentary:
If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison. Notably our 46th president that as been caught in a myriad of lies.
It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge Tanya S. Chutka was chosen.
Today the majority of America believes that Trump is bein persecuted and Biden and his family are bein protected by the weaponized DoJ and FBI.
Under the regime of the Joe Biden and is Merry Maoist Marxist DSA Democrat cabal, these madmen madmen have taken us back to: the days of `the Inquisition`. You will now be charged for `Thoughtcrimes`.

I really get a kick out of the MAGA Idiots trying to paint the case against Trump as nothing but a 'Free Speech' Issue:

 
They are not always protected. There is a thing called fraud. I find it strange that a law professor hasn’t heard of this.

If I sell you a watch that I claim is a Rolex, but it’s actually a fake, I’m in trouble. The constitution does not protect my ability to claim something is a Rolex when it’s not.
~~~~~~
Then according to you this following claim can be construed as `Fraud` by the Secretary of Treasury.
``We’ve Seen ‘Prices Come Down,’ ‘Inflation Keeps Coming Down’
 
~~~~~~
Then according to you this following claim can be construed as `Fraud` by the Secretary of Treasury.
``We’ve Seen ‘Prices Come Down,’ ‘Inflation Keeps Coming Down’
What do you mean “according to me”?

Do you know the definition of fraud? It’s obtaining something of value through lies and deception you wouldn’t otherwise be entitled to.

If I sell you a fake Rolex, I get thousands of dollars for a watch that isn’t worth thousands of dollars.

Trump tried to get the presidency through lies and deception.
 

The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith
10 Aug 2023 ~~ By Jonathan Turley

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.
Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.
Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.
~Snip~
Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen. Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.
Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.
~Snip~
The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is the “worst [judge] Trump could have got.”
Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.
That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried. And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


Commentary:
If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison. Notably our 46th president that as been caught in a myriad of lies.
It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge Tanya S. Chutka was chosen.
Today the majority of America believes that Trump is bein persecuted and Biden and his family are bein protected by the weaponized DoJ and FBI.
Under the regime of the Joe Biden and is Merry Maoist Marxist DSA Democrat cabal, these madmen madmen have taken us back to: the days of `the Inquisition`. You will now be charged for `Thoughtcrimes`.
He wasn't charged with spreading lies...


He was charged for using those lies (WHICH HE KNEW WERE LIES) and taking actions with others to use fake elector schemes in multiple states and using the riot at the Capitol ("It's gonna be wild") to delay the certification of the votes and use fake electors to swing the election to the loser via Mike Pence...and ALSO...he tried to strong arm the Georgia Sec of State to "find votes" -- which is also illegal...

The moron ALSO targeted 2 innocent election workers and used the power of his office to demonize and target these women....and not a single one of you morons to this very day has a problem with it.....so all of your pearl clutching is full of shit...
 
MAGGOTSMAGGOTSMAGGOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I mention:

MAGGOTS!!!!!!
.



You're fun!




TRIGGER.jpg
 

The Mind of Donald Trump: Why Proving a Lie Will Not Necessarily Secure a Conviction for Jack Smith
10 Aug 2023 ~~ By Jonathan Turley

The latest federal indictment of former President Donald Trump was handed down this week with all of the authority of papal infallibility. Pundits lined up to proclaim that case as the greatest prosecution in history.
Former Obama administration acting Solicitor General Neil Katyal even declared that the indictment touched off “the biggest legal case in our lifetimes, perhaps almost ever. It’s up there with cases like Dred Scott, it is up there with Brown v. Board of Education.” What was missing was any serious consideration of the implications of allowing the government to criminalize false statements in a campaign.
Trump was not charged with conspiracy to incite violence or insurrection. Rather, he was charged because he “spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won.”
In order to secure convictions for this, Special Counsel Jack Smith would need to bulldoze through not just the First Amendment but also existing case law holding that even false statements are protected.
The government acknowledges that the Constitution protects false statements made in campaigns, but it insists that Trump must have known that his statements were false and therefore was engaged in fraudulent statements to obstruct or challenge electoral results.
~Snip~
Under our current understanding of free speech, Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton to Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) were engaged in protected speech when they called Trump illegitimate and challenged the certification of his win, even though they knew that their challenges were completely meritless. Yet this indictment suggests that Trump engaged (and indeed still engages) in criminal conduct by insisting that the 2020 election was stolen. Presumably, it also follows that tens of millions of Americans holding that same view are also involved in spreading the same false claims underlying the indictment.
Smith could still secure the cooperation of insiders to support a claim that Trump knew. Many of us have noted the sudden silence of former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and a couple of former Trump lawyers who do not appear to be among the six referenced criminal co-conspirators. One of those six could also flip and say that Trump said that this was all an undeniable but useful sham.
~Snip~
The problem could come down to the judge. Even liberal pundits admit that Judge Tanya S. Chutkan, who has used past Jan. 6 cases to vent, is the “worst [judge] Trump could have got.”
Chutkan could effectively certify the deeper constitutional questions and let the parties seek appellate review. Or she could insist that Trump be tried before the constitutional questions are considered. Although the D.C. Circuit is not a friendly court to Trump, the Supreme Court would likely balk at the criminalization of false political speech.
That would mean that Chutkan could force a case to be tried that should not be tried. And even with a conviction, there would remain a serious threshold constitutional question that is not entirely answered by determining what was in the mind of Donald Trump.


Commentary:
If lying were a crime every politician in Washington who reneged on a campaign promise would be in prison. Notably our 46th president that as been caught in a myriad of lies.
It’s not an accident, or bad luck, that judge Tanya S. Chutka was chosen.
Today the majority of America believes that Trump is bein persecuted and Biden and his family are bein protected by the weaponized DoJ and FBI.
Under the regime of the Joe Biden and is Merry Maoist Marxist DSA Democrat cabal, these madmen madmen have taken us back to: the days of `the Inquisition`. You will now be charged for `Thoughtcrimes`.
If you say something you believe, even if you’re wrong, it isn’t a lie. A statement can be factually incorrect and yet not a lie.

This is why the Smith indictment over 1/6 is legally ridiculous.

Now let’s dig just a wee bit deeper. Suppose that some people (maybe many) advised Trump that he was wrong. Does that mean that he agreed? Or did he, perhaps, continue to believe that some of the chicanery amounted to a successful theft?

Absent a clear smoking gun, I have no idea how this moron prosecutor expects to prove that Trump “knew” his statements were “false.” And if he can’t prove that, beyond a reasonable doubt, then his “case” is just so much smoke and dust.
 

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