The Liberty Amendments

[rightwinger]

Our Congress cannot even agree on a budget, How are they going to agree on this?

States are even more inept than the Federal Government

 

[Boss]

Yep. Progressives like Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, etc....just to draw up the last few decades.

The problem is that everyone else has been coralled into the two party illusion and those two parties are the flip sides of the same coin. You probably think I should have voted for Romney, the corporatist. While others would have said (should he have lost) that I should have voted for Obama the corporatist. Meanwhile the wheels on the bus go round and round....and NOTHING ever changes. It never will either. This system is a broken failure.

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

 

[rightwinger]

I want an Amendment that says everyone has to get along and do what is best for he people

Has as much a chance of success as Levins

 

[Contumacious]

Our Congress cannot even agree on a budget, How are they going to agree on this?

States are even more inept than the Federal Government

Maybe they are.

But the Founding Fathers believe that by dispersing power our liberties would be more secured.


So , the fact that the parties could not agree was considered a good thing.

.

 

[Boss]

Our Congress cannot even agree on a budget, Howard they going to agree on this?

States are even more inept than the Federal Government

Congress doesn't have to agree on this, it BYPASSES the normal Congressional route of Amending the Constitution. That's the whole point. In fact, look for Congress and the professional power holders to balk at this idea, and do everything in their power to derail it. The last thing any of them want to do, is cede their power back to the people.

States, on the contrary, have a key interest at stake here, returning themselves to relevance in federalism. The Constitution was written to give States the most authority over federal government, along with the people. You would not believe the number of Americans who simply don't know this. I had a conversation with a man the other day, who believed the Federal government held authority over the States, and didn't believe it was supposed to be the other way around. The Federal government was the CREATION of the States! Had the "system" as it stands today, been proposed to the States back in 1787, the Constitution would have NEVER been ratified.

 

[Contumacious]

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. .

Good luck attempting to do so by PEACEFUL means.

.

 

[peach174]

The system is not broken.
We have had many different changes in America.
The people have done it many times in our history.
We can do it again.
The system needs to be restored to the Constitutional Republic that we have.
Progressives have taken over and they will be defeated. It will take a little time but it will happen.
You can see it happening all over in each and every State.
The people are waking up and they are fed up with Political Progressive Tyranny and corruption.
More and more people are educating themselves on the issues and in turn are re-educating those that don't.
Many have read the Constitution. Before 2008, hardly anyone knew the Constitution.

Six States rejected the new education system called Common Core.
The people themselves have gotten 4 more States out of this horrible progressive teaching system.
The people will continue to get even more States to reject it.

Well, i wish them all the best of lick on a return to constitutional republic. Forgive me for not seeing how that will be possible after the last 100 or more years of ever encroaching, strengthing and more pwoerful central authority. With history as any indicator, power institutions do not give up that power without a fight.

It will get nasty that's a given, but we can do it, just like we always have.

 

[Contumacious]

It will get nasty that's a given, but we can do it, just like we always have.

It is getting so nasty that the welfare/warfare state is sending that Ole Battle-Ax, Hillary Clinton, out there to deliver a series of speeches “about the challenges undermining Americans’ faith in government.”

.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Yep. Progressives like Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, etc....just to draw up the last few decades.

The problem is that everyone else has been coralled into the two party illusion and those two parties are the flip sides of the same coin. You probably think I should have voted for Romney, the corporatist. While others would have said (should he have lost) that I should have voted for Obama the corporatist. Meanwhile the wheels on the bus go round and round....and NOTHING ever changes. It never will either. This system is a broken failure.

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Do the American people have the fortitude, strength and love of country to ride out this change? I hope so but the responses on this thread from so called Conservatives makes me wonder.. I'm with MARK LEVIN, 1000%.. I have been arguing for term limits for a very long time.. The Founders never intended that only the rich, affluent and politically connected could be elected and stay in for a lifetime by rigging the system.. CORRUPT- Completely useless.. Mark is right.

 

[peach174]

It will get nasty that's a given, but we can do it, just like we always have.

It is getting so nasty that the welfare/warfare state is sending that Ole Battle-Ax, Hillary Clinton, out there to deliver a series of speeches “about the challenges undermining Americans’ faith in government.”

.

Yeah, the progressives all up in arms about the Supreme Courts ruling on Sec. 4.
How dare the court ask them for updated information that is almost 50 years old huh?
They still have not giving any facts or documents on voter discrimination over voter I.D. laws either.

 

[Boss]

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. .

Good luck attempting to do so by PEACEFUL means.

.

It's interesting that Levin speaks of the debates and discussions the Founding Fathers had over Article V, and this very thing. This was the reason Article V included an alternate measure to Amend the Constitution. They feared this might happen, that Government would become too powerful over time, and literally devoid the Constitutional construct. We see this happening today, as Congress passes legislation it does not have the authority to pass, the President brazenly changing legislation on the fly, as he sees fit, and a SCOTUS literally reinterpreting the Constitution to fit unconstitutional legislation.

Article V gives us the mechanism to fix this by bypassing Congress altogether, without having to resort to violent measures. Is it already too late? The process will likely take the better part of a decade, but it is our last best hope for returning us to a Constitutional Republic.

 

[Contumacious]

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. .

Good luck attempting to do so by PEACEFUL means.

.

It's interesting that Levin speaks of the debates and discussions the Founding Fathers had over Article V, and this very thing. This was the reason Article V included an alternate measure to Amend the Constitution. They feared this might happen, that Government would become too powerful over time, and literally devoid the Constitutional construct. We see this happening today, as Congress passes legislation it does not have the authority to pass, the President brazenly changing legislation on the fly, as he sees fit, and a SCOTUS literally reinterpreting the Constitution to fit unconstitutional legislation.

Article V gives us the mechanism to fix this by bypassing Congress altogether, without having to resort to violent measures. Is it already too late? The process will likely take the better part of a decade, but it is our last best hope for returning us to a Constitutional Republic.

In the late 1700's the federal government did not have a massive domestic army ready to suppress dissent if anyone tried to reduce their power.

In 1993 when they try to punish the BATF they retaliated by incinerating ALIVE 93 Davidians - 20 children - and they got away with murder.

.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

Our Congress cannot even agree on a budget, How are they going to agree on this?

States are even more inept than the Federal Government

Congress doesn't have to agree on this if we proceed through the Constitutional Convention process.

 

[Darkwind]

An exercise in constructive liberty.
Mark is a good man.

Seems more like an exercise in futility.....

I believe those were King George's exact words....

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yep. Progressives like Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, etc....just to draw up the last few decades.

The problem is that everyone else has been coralled into the two party illusion and those two parties are the flip sides of the same coin. You probably think I should have voted for Romney, the corporatist. While others would have said (should he have lost) that I should have voted for Obama the corporatist. Meanwhile the wheels on the bus go round and round....and NOTHING ever changes. It never will either. This system is a broken failure.

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Do the American people have the fortitude, strength and love of country to ride out this change? I hope so but the responses on this thread from so called Conservatives makes me wonder.. I'm with MARK LEVIN, 1000%.. I have been arguing for term limits for a very long time.. The Founders never intended that only the rich, affluent and politically connected could be elected and stay in for a lifetime by rigging the system.. CORRUPT- Completely useless.. Mark is right.

I'd argue that any one that claims to be conservative but rejects Levin's ideas aren't truly conservatives.

 

[Avatar4321]

Yep. Progressives like Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, etc....just to draw up the last few decades.

The problem is that everyone else has been coralled into the two party illusion and those two parties are the flip sides of the same coin. You probably think I should have voted for Romney, the corporatist. While others would have said (should he have lost) that I should have voted for Obama the corporatist. Meanwhile the wheels on the bus go round and round....and NOTHING ever changes. It never will either. This system is a broken failure.

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Do the American people have the fortitude, strength and love of country to ride out this change? I hope so but the responses on this thread from so called Conservatives makes me wonder.. I'm with MARK LEVIN, 1000%.. I have been arguing for term limits for a very long time.. The Founders never intended that only the rich, affluent and politically connected could be elected and stay in for a lifetime by rigging the system.. CORRUPT- Completely useless.. Mark is right.

That is my biggest concern. I am not sold on all of Levin's Amendments. Ill wait till I read the arguments and weigh them out on where i fall on all of them. Others Ive supported for a while. Such as a repeal of the 17th amendment. We totally screwed up the balance of power by shifting the Senate from the States to the people. In fact, I think it's one of the biggest reasons we have a massive government today. It's difficult for the States to check a Federal governmente pushing through unfunded mandates on the States when the State no longer has the leverage they had in Congress.

My biggest concern is that the people don't have the resolve to do it. Our culture has been so corrupted that we could end up having incredible harmful amendments coming out of it if we aren't careful.

I have hesitated in the past about this precisely for my concerns. But if not now when. If it gets worse, will we ever be able to restore the Republic?

 

[Boss]

Good luck attempting to do so by PEACEFUL means.

.

It's interesting that Levin speaks of the debates and discussions the Founding Fathers had over Article V, and this very thing. This was the reason Article V included an alternate measure to Amend the Constitution. They feared this might happen, that Government would become too powerful over time, and literally devoid the Constitutional construct. We see this happening today, as Congress passes legislation it does not have the authority to pass, the President brazenly changing legislation on the fly, as he sees fit, and a SCOTUS literally reinterpreting the Constitution to fit unconstitutional legislation.

Article V gives us the mechanism to fix this by bypassing Congress altogether, without having to resort to violent measures. Is it already too late? The process will likely take the better part of a decade, but it is our last best hope for returning us to a Constitutional Republic.

In the late 1700's the federal government did not have a massive domestic army ready to suppress dissent if anyone tried to reduce their power.

In 1993 when they try to punish the BATF they retaliated by incinerating ALIVE 93 Davidians - 20 children - and they got away with murder.

.

.

Well, 93 Branch Davidians hold up in a compound is much different than 38 states ratifying a series of constitutional amendments.

 

[B. Kidd]

Seems more like an exercise in futility.....

It is exactly that attitude that keeps getting the progressives elected and re-reelected.
There are about 20 million of you out there that think like this and say my vote doesn't count so why should I vote or do anything at all about it.

Yep. Progressives like Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, etc....just to draw up the last few decades.

The problem is that everyone else has been coralled into the two party illusion and those two parties are the flip sides of the same coin. You probably think I should have voted for Romney, the corporatist. While others would have said (should he have lost) that I should have voted for Obama the corporatist. Meanwhile the wheels on the bus go round and round....and NOTHING ever changes. It never will either. This system is a broken failure.

Even Levin himself said on Hannity the other night that it might be too late. Like how he labeled our system as being 'post-constitutional'. Sadly, I believe he is right.

 

[Boss]

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Do the American people have the fortitude, strength and love of country to ride out this change? I hope so but the responses on this thread from so called Conservatives makes me wonder.. I'm with MARK LEVIN, 1000%.. I have been arguing for term limits for a very long time.. The Founders never intended that only the rich, affluent and politically connected could be elected and stay in for a lifetime by rigging the system.. CORRUPT- Completely useless.. Mark is right.

That is my biggest concern. I am not sold on all of Levin's Amendments. Ill wait till I read the arguments and weigh them out on where i fall on all of them. Others Ive supported for a while. Such as a repeal of the 17th amendment. We totally screwed up the balance of power by shifting the Senate from the States to the people. In fact, I think it's one of the biggest reasons we have a massive government today. It's difficult for the States to check a Federal governmente pushing through unfunded mandates on the States when the State no longer has the leverage they had in Congress.

My biggest concern is that the people don't have the resolve to do it. Our culture has been so corrupted that we could end up having incredible harmful amendments coming out of it if we aren't careful.

I have hesitated in the past about this precisely for my concerns. But if not now when. If it gets worse, will we ever be able to restore the Republic?

The amendments would still have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states, so there is simply not a danger of terrible amendments being added. Keep in mind, the process does not allow for all the amendments to be ratified in unison together, they must all be ratified individually.

You are spot on with the analysis of 'if not now, when?' The time is now, in fact, it may even be too late already. I feel this is at least worth a shot, before we take to the pitchforks and torches.

 

[Avatar4321]

Our Congress is now controlled by two "ruling class" parties, who serve their own self interests. Neither party is interested in change or delegating more of their power back to the people. Republicans have become as infiltrated by Big Government Progressives as the Democrats, and you are right... flip sides of the same coin.

This is precisely why Levin argues it is time for a radical move on the part of the people. A grassroots effort to Amend the Constitution at the State level, and restore our Constitutional construct. Congress is not going to fix itself, the President is not going to fix himself, the SCOTUS is not going to fix itself. They are all serving their own perpetuating self interests, and disregarding the people. We keep hoping for a President who will change things, or a Congress that will do so, or then... even a SCOTUS who will intervene to uphold Constitutionality, and it just isn't happening, and it's not going to. Federal government is out of control, it has gone rogue. Our Founders were smart enough to give us the mechanism to correct just this sort of thing, without resorting to violence.

One of the best posts I've read on this forum. Do the American people have the fortitude, strength and love of country to ride out this change? I hope so but the responses on this thread from so called Conservatives makes me wonder.. I'm with MARK LEVIN, 1000%.. I have been arguing for term limits for a very long time.. The Founders never intended that only the rich, affluent and politically connected could be elected and stay in for a lifetime by rigging the system.. CORRUPT- Completely useless.. Mark is right.

I'd argue that any one that claims to be conservative but rejects Levin's ideas aren't truly conservatives.

You may be correct. But the very nature of conservatism is to protect the Constitution as it is. Amending it to reflect original intent is correct, but that's not what all the proposed amendments do. Term limits for example. The original intent of the Founders was not to have term limits. And there are some problems if we do have term limits. For example, when politicians don't have to worry about reelected, there is no way the people can hold them accountable for what they do. The fear of losing in reelection is half the reason The Democrats in Congress haven't given Obama everything he wants to accomplish.

Im all for having a debate on the subject and even holding the convention. But is it really a wise ammendment? Is it really conservative? I am not sold on it. Look at what happened with the 17th amendment. Im sure everyone was sincere in what they were doing, but it totally screwed up the balance of power in the Federal government.

The fact is if we do this, even if we are trying to restore what the Founders originally intended, we are creating a new government that may not actually reflect what the Founders intended. But maybe we should. I am leaning more in favor of the Convention.