The Left's Historical Obsession With Jews and Israel.

[Shusha]

The casualty figures suggest that this is an unequal struggle.

Is THAT the objective standard, then? That conflict and modern warfare must be an "equal struggle"?

Do you expect the US, as an example, to hold to that standard? If 2980 people were killed in 9-11, does that mean that the US is permitted to kill 2980 persons?

And, btw, no, the casualty figures do not at all suggest that it is an unequal struggle. The casualty figures suggest that Israel does a very GOOD job of protecting its citizens from the conflict and the Gazans do a very POOR job of it (and deliberately).

 

[Shusha]

Is your objective standard that no child must die in any conflict?

 

[Hollie]

Demonization. Double Standards.

I dont understand the point you are making.

You get accused of anti-semitism. There is a reason for that. Its evident in this post. You are not pointing out a valid criticism of Israel. You are applying two of the three D's: Demonization. And Double Standards.

Well I must be less obvious than I thought. I dont like the way that Israel treats the Palestinians. That is a perfectly reasonable stance.You trying to project something else on to that just underlines the point I was making.

You don’t like the way israel reacts to Islamic terrorist suicide attacks, bus bombings, car ramming, knife attacks, pizza shop bombings, 10,000 rocket mortar attacks since 2006, a written charter calling for the destruction of Israel and Israeli citizens, multiple franchises of Islamic Terrorism Intl. inc, launching near daily attacks on Israeli citizens, the same group that was responsible for Black September and the Munich Massacre and now the daily gee-had at the border attempting to breach the Israeli border and “rip the hearts out” of Jews.

Gee whiz. How would you suggest Israel respond to the Islamic barbarians?

The casualty figures suggest that this is an unequal struggle.

Of course it is. There is no reason islamic terrorists should expect a “fair fight”. I understand you would feel better about yourself if the Israelis took greater casualties but you need to understand that the Israelis (nor any modern military) has any desire but to inflict the greatest damage on the enemy while reducing its own vulnerability.

In the twisted calculus of the islamic terrorist franchises, their creation of civilian casualties is unimportant. Civilians are purposely used as cannon fodder because they are useful as propaganda tools. There’s a reason why Hamas lowlifes don’t wear military uniforms during attacks on Israelis but somehow find uniforms for their goofy fashion parades.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The reality is that even on a forum like this there are people who use the term "anti-Semite" for ANYONE who criticizes Israel.

So.....

Would you direct me to a post which validly criticizes Israel's policies or actions and which do not fall into the traps of the 3 D's and to which someone labelled the poster an anti-semite? I don't recall ever seeing one on this board.

And here's the problem. It's all subjective, and some people are looking to call people anti-semitic.

Would I like to trawl through posts looking for such an example? No, I would not. I am not going to waste my time just to then be told something ridiculous.

 

[Shusha]

The reality is that even on a forum like this there are people who use the term "anti-Semite" for ANYONE who criticizes Israel.

So.....

Would you direct me to a post which validly criticizes Israel's policies or actions and which do not fall into the traps of the 3 D's and to which someone labelled the poster an anti-semite? I don't recall ever seeing one on this board.

And here's the problem. It's all subjective, and some people are looking to call people anti-semitic.

Would I like to trawl through posts looking for such an example? No, I would not. I am not going to waste my time just to then be told something ridiculous.

So, no.

Its not the least bit subjective. It is easily understood and explained. The easiest way to tell is if someone actually talks about policies of Israel. (See my posts above). People who resist talking about specific policies (such as methods for guarding borders, or correct standards of response to specific attacks, or the legalities of settlements) do so because they have no interest in doing anything but demonize, delegitimize and apply double standards to Israel.

 

[cnm]

In other words, you [Frigidweirdo] have nothing to say.

You yourself have said nothing. You've posted some other person's opinion. What do you say?

 

[cnm]

The number of Palestinian children killed by Israel is well documented. Its wrong and I dont like it.Your [Shusha] attempt to deflect from that makes me wonder if you are ready to actually discuss this.
The real issue is that this does not make me anti semitic, Israel is not above criticism and my belief is that these accusations are designed to make it so.

Hasbara won't spread itself.

 

[cnm]

Israel is absolutely not above criticism.

Criticize it.

 

[Shusha]

Israel is absolutely not above criticism.

Criticize it.

Sure. On what?

 

[cnm]

Sure. On what?

On something/everything about which it is worthy of/not above criticism. As though an invitation to make good on your observation needed explaining.

 

[Mindful]

In other words, you [Frigidweirdo] have nothing to say.

You yourself have said nothing. You've posted some other person's opinion. What do you say?

That you're an internet troll.

How's that for an opinion?

 

[frigidweirdo]

The reality is that even on a forum like this there are people who use the term "anti-Semite" for ANYONE who criticizes Israel.

So.....

Would you direct me to a post which validly criticizes Israel's policies or actions and which do not fall into the traps of the 3 D's and to which someone labelled the poster an anti-semite? I don't recall ever seeing one on this board.

And here's the problem. It's all subjective, and some people are looking to call people anti-semitic.

Would I like to trawl through posts looking for such an example? No, I would not. I am not going to waste my time just to then be told something ridiculous.

So, no.

Its not the least bit subjective. It is easily understood and explained. The easiest way to tell is if someone actually talks about policies of Israel. (See my posts above). People who resist talking about specific policies (such as methods for guarding borders, or correct standards of response to specific attacks, or the legalities of settlements) do so because they have no interest in doing anything but demonize, delegitimize and apply double standards to Israel.

What I've noticed in my time on forums like this is the tactics people use.

One of the tactics is to provide something long and not worth reading that looks like it's intellectual and all of that, and looks like it might provide valid points.

At the same time I'm not saying you're wrong. There are people on both sides of the partisan divide (especially the partisan divide but not exclusive to it) who will say anything to support their side.

It basically seems like a tactic within a power struggle to gain dominance. Rather than actual desire to point out "anti-Semitism" or anti-Jewish stuff.

 

[Mindful]

Israel is absolutely not above criticism.

Criticize it.

Sure.

It should not have given back the Sinai.

Or at least it should have in increments. Like bargaining chips.

 

[Shusha]

Sure. On what?

On something/everything about which it is worthy of/not above criticism. As though an invitation to make good on your observation needed explaining.

Here's one:

I think it actually IS collective punishment to destroy the family homes of terrorists.

 

[Mindful]

Notice how the apologists are steering this away from Pittsbugh and on to Israel. It happens with tedious monotony every time. Predictable even.

 

[cnm]

That you're an internet troll.

How's that for an opinion?

Exactly what can be expected from a Mad Cow. Unable to contribute to the topic, only able to post about personalities.

 

[cnm]

think it actually IS collective punishment to destroy the family homes of terrorists.

Here's another one. Dietary collective punishment of freedom fighters.

 

[Mindful]

The mendacity of the anti Semite apologists is out in force again. With the same old mantras we've heard, time and time again. The latest, as tediously expected being, blame Trump for this one.

Brendan O'Neill puts it this way.

^^This rush to blame Trump for a massacre of Jews is not only profoundly cynical, where the militarisation of anti-Semitism is pounced upon to the cheap, low end of scoring points against a politician people don’t like.

It also has the effect of whitewashing the true horror of anti-Semitism in the 21st-century West. It is in itself a form of apologism for the new anti-Semitism to the extent that it dehistoricises and depoliticises it by presenting it as little more than a function of the new right-wing populism.

It presents violent anti-Semitism as yet another thing unleashed, or at least intensified, by Trump and by the political turn of the past two years. And this dangerously distracts public attention – purposefully, I suspect – from the fact that anti-Semitism has been growing and becoming increasingly militarised for more than a decade now, among the left as well as the right and within Muslim communities, too.^^

He goes on to remind us how downplayed in the media are the massacres in Europe.

^^Post-Pittsburgh, it is hard to escape the conclusion that many observers are more interested in shaming and weakening Trump than they are in truly getting to grips with the new anti-Semitism. After all, where was their rage, their concern about rhetoric, their existential handwringing over hateful ideas and hateful language, back when anti-Semitism was deepening and militarising pre-2016, pre-Trump, most notably in Europe?

Back when four Jews were slaughtered at a deli in Paris in 2015. Or when a gunman attacked the Great Synagogue in Copenhagen in 2015, during a bat mitzvah, killing one. Or during the massacre at a Jewish school in Toulouse in 2012, in which a rabbi and three children were murdered. One of them was an eight-year-old girl: the anti-Semitic perpetrator grabbed her by her hair and pushed his gun into her face. It jammed when he pulled the trigger. He changed weapon and shot her in the temple. He shot her in the face for the crime of being Jewish.

Or during the Molotov cocktail attack on a synagogue in Gothenburg last year, during which 30 people had to flee to a basement to escape the missiles. Or when a synagogue was firebombed in Düsseldorf in 2014 by Muslims seeking vengeance for Israel’s actions in Gaza. Or when a Holocaust survivor was stabbed to death by anti-Semites in France earlier this year. Or when there was an attempt to burn down the Exeter Synagogue, the third oldest in England, in July this year. Or during any of the other thousands of anti-Semitic attacks in Europe in the past decade, which all have spoken to a terrifying situation where anti-Semitism has now crossed the line from racist incidents into an increasingly militarised effort to demean and dehumanise the Jewish people and their institutions.^^

Take the trouble to read the rest of it:

The militarisation of anti-Semitism

 

[cnm]

Notice how the apologists are steering this away from Pittsbugh and on to Israel.

You started the thread on Israel, ffs, you loon.

 

[Mindful]

That you're an internet troll.

How's that for an opinion?

Exactly what can be expected from a Mad Cow. Unable to contribute to the topic, only able to post about personalities.

You're still a troll.