The Innocence Project

[beautress]

​

Fighting Wrongful Convictions

Law professor & attorney Barry Scheck recounts the story behind the founding of The Innocence Project, a non-profit legal organization that is committed to exonerating wrongly convicted people through the use of DNA testing, and to reforming the criminal justice system to prevent future injustice.

Have you heard of this project and its long list of innocent victims it has freed from death row, life imprisonment, and extreme personal culpability resulting in long sentences, unwarranted lifetime punishment in the case of false testimonies being the sole reason for incarceration in "molestation" cases, not to mention constant harassment people on sex offender lists have for life, including threats to their families.

 

[Crepitus]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

 

[beautress]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

 

[Crepitus]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

One is too many. One innocent person put to death makes us the murderers.

 

[Crepitus]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

1% is too many.

 

[BULLDOG]

I don't have a problem putting some criminals to death, as long as we know they are guilty. As soon as we can be sure that nobody has to say oops after an execution, I say fry them all. I have a problem with later discovering the dead guy really didn't do it.

 

[SavannahMann]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row.

21 out of how many?

 

[SavannahMann]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row.

21 out of how many?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post. The total number is referenced in the link. Here is a second link to the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing Death Penalty numbers you might find interesting.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp13st.pdf

In 2013, the year this report covers, the disposition of Death Penalty cases breaks down as thus.

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned. So the largest group was those who had some situation or another with their trials.

During that same year, another 83 were added to the Death Row’s. If we assume that 2013 was an odd year, and had a higher number than average in removals for court issues, does that mean that the average mentioned before, of 33% is acceptable, or not when contemplating the Death Penalty? If one case out of three is flawed in some fatal way, do we dare continue with it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row.

21 out of how many?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post. The total number is referenced in the link. Here is a second link to the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing Death Penalty numbers you might find interesting.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp13st.pdf

In 2013, the year this report covers, the disposition of Death Penalty cases breaks down as thus.

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned. So the largest group was those who had some situation or another with their trials.

During that same year, another 83 were added to the Death Row’s. If we assume that 2013 was an odd year, and had a higher number than average in removals for court issues, does that mean that the average mentioned before, of 33% is acceptable, or not when contemplating the Death Penalty? If one case out of three is flawed in some fatal way, do we dare continue with it?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post.

Which post? 21 out of...……?

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned.

How many were overturned?

 

[SavannahMann]

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row.

21 out of how many?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post. The total number is referenced in the link. Here is a second link to the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing Death Penalty numbers you might find interesting.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp13st.pdf

In 2013, the year this report covers, the disposition of Death Penalty cases breaks down as thus.

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned. So the largest group was those who had some situation or another with their trials.

During that same year, another 83 were added to the Death Row’s. If we assume that 2013 was an odd year, and had a higher number than average in removals for court issues, does that mean that the average mentioned before, of 33% is acceptable, or not when contemplating the Death Penalty? If one case out of three is flawed in some fatal way, do we dare continue with it?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post.

Which post? 21 out of...……?

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned.

How many were overturned?

What is your threshold? If ten were overturned is that enough? Or is nine not enough?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row.

21 out of how many?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post. The total number is referenced in the link. Here is a second link to the Bureau of Justice Statistics showing Death Penalty numbers you might find interesting.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cp13st.pdf

In 2013, the year this report covers, the disposition of Death Penalty cases breaks down as thus.

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned. So the largest group was those who had some situation or another with their trials.

During that same year, another 83 were added to the Death Row’s. If we assume that 2013 was an odd year, and had a higher number than average in removals for court issues, does that mean that the average mentioned before, of 33% is acceptable, or not when contemplating the Death Penalty? If one case out of three is flawed in some fatal way, do we dare continue with it?

The statistic you asked for was covered in a later portion of the post.

Which post? 21 out of...……?

115 were removed from Death Row. 39 were executed, 31 died of other causes, and 45 were removed by court action. Their sentences were changed, or their convictions overturned.

How many were overturned?

What is your threshold? If ten were overturned is that enough? Or is nine not enough?

If 44 had their sentence changed to life and only one was released, that would be a bit lower than
your 33%. Right?

 

[beautress]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

My recollection tells me 16% of the people on death row were innocent of the crimes of which (for one reason or another), they were convicted. My paper on the study was written for a college course in or around 1981-1983. The initial findings of the graduate students I can't seem to find, and from what I read, the initial study was done in or around the middle 70s. I could easily be mistaken, and I don't even remember if the paper was in a consumer health class, or a anything-goes class on persuasive speaking for educators. After the evidence of DNA innocence was presented in the state of Illinois, Governor Ryan was so horrified that innocent men were sent to prison likely at a similar rate prior to that, and until a more fool-proof system than the judicial system back then was created, he was against capital punishment and did all he could to stop capital punishment in the State of Illinois. The story as I recall it does not match all that has happened since that tends to say 25% on Death Row didn't do the crime according to DNA, and now, I'm not sure, but the videos above pretty much give reasons why a court can err in sending someone to his death, and the several reasons how--error in memories, the perpetrator, unwilling to go to jail for the duration of his life, points finger at another person who becomes the suspect, a political order (since approximately, Watergate) that lets off the hook the offender who is running for an office; etc.

It's really late. I'll try to get back to searching in a couple of days. I'm just not finding the sources used in my coursework 42 years ago.

 

[Coyote]

Good thread!

 

[MAGAman]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

It gives me pause.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

My recollection tells me 16% of the people on death row were innocent of the crimes of which (for one reason or another), they were convicted. My paper on the study was written for a college course in or around 1981-1983. The initial findings of the graduate students I can't seem to find, and from what I read, the initial study was done in or around the middle 70s. I could easily be mistaken, and I don't even remember if the paper was in a consumer health class, or a anything-goes class on persuasive speaking for educators. After the evidence of DNA innocence was presented in the state of Illinois, Governor Ryan was so horrified that innocent men were sent to prison likely at a similar rate prior to that, and until a more fool-proof system than the judicial system back then was created, he was against capital punishment and did all he could to stop capital punishment in the State of Illinois. The story as I recall it does not match all that has happened since that tends to say 25% on Death Row didn't do the crime according to DNA, and now, I'm not sure, but the videos above pretty much give reasons why a court can err in sending someone to his death, and the several reasons how--error in memories, the perpetrator, unwilling to go to jail for the duration of his life, points finger at another person who becomes the suspect, a political order (since approximately, Watergate) that lets off the hook the offender who is running for an office; etc.

It's really late. I'll try to get back to searching in a couple of days. I'm just not finding the sources used in my coursework 42 years ago.

Governor Ryan was so horrified......

Governor Ryan was a crooked twat.
He did it to try to save his own skin.

 

[beautress]

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

My recollection tells me 16% of the people on death row were innocent of the crimes of which (for one reason or another), they were convicted. My paper on the study was written for a college course in or around 1981-1983. The initial findings of the graduate students I can't seem to find, and from what I read, the initial study was done in or around the middle 70s. I could easily be mistaken, and I don't even remember if the paper was in a consumer health class, or a anything-goes class on persuasive speaking for educators. After the evidence of DNA innocence was presented in the state of Illinois, Governor Ryan was so horrified that innocent men were sent to prison likely at a similar rate prior to that, and until a more fool-proof system than the judicial system back then was created, he was against capital punishment and did all he could to stop capital punishment in the State of Illinois. The story as I recall it does not match all that has happened since that tends to say 25% on Death Row didn't do the crime according to DNA, and now, I'm not sure, but the videos above pretty much give reasons why a court can err in sending someone to his death, and the several reasons how--error in memories, the perpetrator, unwilling to go to jail for the duration of his life, points finger at another person who becomes the suspect, a political order (since approximately, Watergate) that lets off the hook the offender who is running for an office; etc.

It's really late. I'll try to get back to searching in a couple of days. I'm just not finding the sources used in my coursework 42 years ago.

Governor Ryan was so horrified......

Governor Ryan was a crooked twat.
He did it to try to save his own skin.

That's something I wouldn't know, having spent most of my adult life in Wyoming with a 5-year hiatus in Oregon due to my late husband's great talent of getting double promotions throughout his distinguished engineering/management career in electricity. I'm sorry that I likely discarded most of my college notes and schoolwork from those years. My late husband was born, raised and educated in the state of Illinois. He never engaged in debates he did not have the data to win. I never won a singular argument with him in 44 years of marriage, on account of that fighting Illini's meticulous preparation of facts. I just wonder if all University of Illinois (Champaign) mathematicians were so efficient as he. <giggle>

 

[beautress]

a

Their work convinced me the death penalty was a bad idea.

I agree. Northwestern University's professor who led a group of postgrad students to reinvestigate DNA samples found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

found a huge percentage of people on death row were actually innocent of the crime based on scientific proof that DNA is.

You have a link to the huge percentage?

The Innocence Project alone has gotten 21 people off of Death Row. Twenty One people who would have died if the system had acted as many people wish it would. Quickly execute those who are convicted. But that is not all. That is merely the Innocence Project.

Since 1973, when the Death Penalty was reinstated, about 1/3 of the cases have been overturned on appeal. Why the Death Penalty Costs More Than Life in Prison

Those include procedural errors. That is mistakes made in the trial, jury instructions, evidence inclusion or exclusion, witness issues, and that sort of thing. Exoneration in subsequent reviews of the Courts. That is to say that the Appeals Courts examined the transcript and records and found that the Verdict was wrong. Or the Defendant had the sentence overturned and sentenced to a lesser penalty.

So your statistic is about 33%. Many here, myself included, think One is too many. Justice Blackwell was absolutely correct when he said that it was better for a thousand guilty men to go free than one innocent man to be sent to prison. But think about that for a moment. Imagine how you would feel. Imagine how you would feel if your Son or daughter, or spouse was sentenced to Prison, or death, for a crime you know they did not commit. Imagine how you would feel if you had to bankrupt yourself to get them out. Imagine how you would feel if it was you who was sentenced for a crime you did not commit.

We have to be careful, and certain, when we do these things. I am not talking 100% certain, well perhaps for the death penalty, but otherwise prison. We need to be as certain as possible. The purpose of the trial is to cast a wary eye at the Prosecution. We are supposed to be the Doubting Thomas. We are supposed to require proof. Sadly, too many of our fellow citizens don’t.

They assume that the Police are right. And the accused, even if he didn’t do this, must have done something. Otherwise he wouldn’t be here right? We are afraid of letting the guilty go free, so we convict the accused.

We need to question everything we are told. The FBI has a long and sordid history of manipulating evidence. Look up Lead Matching if you doubt me. They matched hair and fiber samples, which they swore in court matched exactly. Until DNA came about, and showed that it didn’t match jack shit. They still use this expert testimony, it matches, and you’ll just have to take my word on it. I swear to God. The Police do much of the same thing. We know that now don’t we? So we need to be sure.

We need to be certain. Because we are taking the life, liberty, and property of those we convict. Even if we only sentence them to a few years, it is a few years that we need to be as certain as possible they deserve to pay for the crime. It isn’t enough that Someone has to pay. The right person has to pay. As long as we continue to exonerate those who have been convicted, we have not done the job properly.

Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for your participation in this thread with re to wrongful convictions. Although I likely did not save my old college notes when we moved in 2009 to Walker County TX for retirement purposes of escaping extreme Rocky Mountain winters (9 months a year at mile high), I did find a comprehensive list of the most egregious wrongful deaths in the USA dating back to Colonial times from the early seventeenth century through today, here for your perusal: List of wrongful convictions in the United States - Wikipedia , and it includes even the wrongs done at the Salem Witch Hunt, but mainly tragedy before the discovery of DNA and a little lightening up of the death penalty in many states where innocent people had suffered executions for crimes later known to have been perpetrated by other than the executed party.

The truth in trials are very important to me, and were important when Mosaic Law was received in 1513 BCE, murders were likely around since Cain slew Abel 2500 years prior to that, and with people interested in saving loved ones from the wrath of other men, The fact that not bearing false witness was one of the 10 Commandments tells us that Wrongful Murder convictions may have been around for as long if not longer since also present in mankind's history stem from the Tablets of Sumer and Hamurabbi's Code which precede Mosaic Laws even by who knows how long. Recent findings that our present President did not commit crimes of colusion and that numerous of his advisers were railroaded politically, some of whom are currently serving unfair terms in jail, tells us that FBI agents used deceptive means to get convictions from people who committed no crime whatever but may have misspoken under deceptive lies used to extract guilty verdicts, which is not true justice, but merely a tactic to get such a statement from a victim of overbearing practices as the victim saying "Well, I didn't know I was committing a crime..." which is received as the person committed some kind of crime, throw away the key after locking him/her up, a hallmark of the FBI criminal abuse under James Brien Comey's tutelage of obtaining less-than-accurate conditions beleived to be Deep State malpractice goals of obtaining a result sans truth being the only objective of judicial findings.

Studies are still inadequate, imho, of finding all miscarriages of justice in major trials due to the additional factors of emotional feelings roused by the rape of minor children (as in the McMartin Preschool case in California in the 1980s that resulted in the McMartin's son being incarcerated for a crime he did not commit for 10 years until its fraudulent origins were uncovered, that opened a nationwide hysteria and a rush to judgment of people who never went to California, much less lived there during the 10 years this public parade was going on with an angry public willing to publicly hang the McMartin family and all employees too, based on the lies of a woman who had a history of schizophrenia and other false witnesses of anyone she disliked even mildly. Apparently her boyfriend abused her daughter, which weighed heavily on investigators who examined the child and found her sexually injuries with no evidence whatever of who did it since it was clearly locked in the child's past. The findings resulted in a team of investigators, charged with finding the child's abusers ASAP making the error of coaching all the other children in the preschool to agree that they too had been molested, so the State of California could conclude the case and move on. Unfortunately, the evidence was based on the coaching and not on any physical evidence of rape of other children, and many of the children who'd been well-coached telling the authorities it didn't really happen at all, and they were completely ignored in the rush to judgment and a furious public at the thought of a reputable preschool allowing such reprehensible practice go unnoticed under their roof. However, the trial could not be continued due to the findings that many children were openly saying their handlers had reminded them over and over to implicate the McMartins and their staff of bad things that never happened at the school. And the McMartin's son spent 10 years in jail to keep misinformed people in the public from killing him outright.

Murder is an awful thing as is child rape committed at a public school or private preschool. It's even worse when you factor in that perpetrators seldom ante up to their crimes when someone else is conveniently maligned in the press as the "real" perpetrator, when such is far from the truth. The public, given a lie, puts pressure on the prosecutors to produce a whipping boy. The schizophrenic woman died before the conclusion was reached that the entire McMartin preschool staff was innocent of all charges, and many people nationwide decided on home schooling their own children rather than turning them over to any public-funded or private entity on account of one crazy woman who wanted her evil relationship left unquestioned for an hour until her next mood replaced the older one in her mental incapacity to deal with ending a bad relationship.

 

[SavannahMann]

Most of us posting here are adults. Many of us have children. Theoretically all of us were children at some point. Now let’s say that you as a parent find a broken vase in the living room. You know that your son probably broke the vase. You confront the boy and he denies it. You punish the boy by spanking him for breaking the vase and for lying to you.

Later you discover that the boy did not break the vase. You find a squirrel has gotten in the house and is running around. How do you explain to the boy that the punishment he got by your hand was a mistake? How do you make it up to him? That is for a spanking. Odds are heavily in your favor that your son will get over it. As he gets older and has children of his own he will know that adults make mistakes too. They just do the best they can. Odds also favor the boy being careful about handing out punishments to his own child.

Now I am not saying you should avoid spanking your kids. I am not saying that we should avoid punishing people who break the rules. I am saying we need to be sure. We can’t devolve into that furious parent demanding that the prime suspect find another to take his place as the guilty party. If you didn’t do it who did?

Our first loyalty must be to the truth. Without that we can not progress one inch as a people. The truth is our Justice System is flawed. Sometimes terribly. God alone knows how many innocents have been executed. That such people have is undeniable. God alone knows how many innocents have been sent to Prison. That we do so is again undeniable.

That is not the question. The question we must face and answer is this. What will we do now that we know? We could claim ignorance as a salve for our conscience. Now we do not have that. So what do we do going forward?