The ideal American Political Party (Chuz Life's version)

[Chuz Life]

All or any of which has nothing to do with his quote about the parties, but I appreciate the effort.

Nothing to do?

How many "parties" were involved in the Revolutionary War? The "patriots" vs the "loyalists" come to mind.

I'll also add that ours is not a democracy, anyway. Ours is a representative republic.

 

[Chuz Life]

It really sucks that we can't edit typos.

 

[Votto]

The two party system has served the nation very well for a very long time.

If you have 3, 4, or 5 parties and if they are viable, you'll have essentially a coalition government. As this is the norm (or at least prevalent) in other democracies, one would have to wonder why you'd want to trade what has worked for so well and so long for those system that seem to have not worked as well.

The US has formed the greatest civilization to ever inhabit the planet. Full stop.

What has happened lately is that the right wing has become sorely misguided (putting it mildly) in what made us the greatest civilization. Did it work perfectly in the past? Never. But like the unfinished pyramid on the back of the $1 bill, the nation is unfinished and mistakes will be made, shortcomings will be exposed, and yes...bad actors will corrupt the system. Eventually, the ship will either right itself or we will perish as a nation. I tend to think the crazy uncles on the right will realize they are far out of the depth at some point and sanity will take over from those who do laughable things like signing treaties with the Taliban and encouraging insurrections. Maybe not. But it will not happen overnight and bitter lessons will be learned. Hopefully what is left of the sane folks on the right will recapture their ideology.

Why do you lie like this?

First you say the two-party system is just wonderful, and in the next breath say that you either vote Democrat or for Nazi Hitler types.

You're sick along with what is left of your party.

 

[Votto]

I am on record on many forums poo pooing the idea of anyone trying to form a new political party to compete against Republicans and Democrats. There have been so many failed attempts through the years, it's quite obvious (to me) that a viable 3rd Political party in the U.S. is not likely going to rival the GOP or the DNC, in my remaining lifetime. I already have several personal ideas for a Party Name, Symbol, Basic Philosophy, Planks for the Platform, etc. And I hope to share all that in my following posts.

Anyone who tries to use this thread to personally attack, disrupt, and/ or derail will be put on ignore and possibly be reported. If you don't agree with something, fine. Feel free to share why you think a different view is better.

I'm including a 20 Question Poll. Please select all that apply, and remember, you can change your answers if you want to.

The issue for me is centralized power. The more power a given individual has, or group of individuals have, the more corruption there is.

Progressives are all about centralizing power, and they are in both parties. They have centralized power to the Executive Branch for far too long as states need to reclaim the power taken from them

Originally, the federal government was limited as states ran things, but now it is the polar opposite and why half the country wants to secede from the union every Presidential election. It was never meant to be like this.

 

[candycorn]

Why do you lie like this?

First you say the two-party system is just wonderful, and in the next breath say that you either vote Democrat or for Nazi Hitler types.

Your interpretation is rather humorous.

If you're ashamed of MAGA (and you should be)--you're comparing them to "Nazi Hitler types"--not me....that's your problem.

 

[candycorn]

The issue for me is centralized power. The more power a given individual has, or group of individuals have, the more corruption there is.

Progressives are all about centralizing power, and they are in both parties. They have centralized power to the Executive Branch for far too long as states need to reclaim the power taken from them

Originally, the federal government was limited as states ran things, but now it is the polar opposite and why half the country wants to secede from the union every Presidential election. It was never meant to be like this.

And Trump is talking about sending troops into Illinois, and New York as you applaud it.

And you're saying the progressives are the ones who are giving the executive branch too much power?

 

[sparky]

a quick google , if i may Chuz>>>


Inalienable Rights in the Declaration of Independence

• Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness:
  .
  The Declaration of Independence asserts that these rights are endowed by a Creator and are not transferable by humans or governments.
  
• • Natural Rights:
    .
    Inalienable rights are considered "natural rights," meaning they exist inherently and are not granted by laws or governments.
    
  • Purpose of Government:
    .
    Governments are established to secure these rights, not to create or take them away.
  • 
    
  • ~S~

 

[SassyIrishLass]

A third party would just devolve into what the current two have

What's needed is term limits where politicians are not entrenched and abusing the office

 

[Billiejeens]

You guys are quick with responses, so unfortunately, some of my ideas will get buried.

I digress.

Before I forget, when I first imagined starting this thread, I tried to anticipate some of the comments. As I said before, I think it's near futile to try to build a party (especially up from the grass roots) to compete with the GOP and DNC.

It seems the smarter (more efficient) way would be to build a party/ movement that would pull worthy candidates from both the republicans and democrats - who may think the 3rd Party Platform resonates with their views and with the views of their constituents, better.

That sounds, essentially like the Tea Party/POT/Maga Republicans

The tea Party consisted of members of various parties - with one common goal.

 

[progressive hunter]

If we had 5 parties...do you really think that we wouldn't have 5 parties hating one another?

As for the deficit, yep you're right we've run up a huge one. Over 20% of which was done by the current President. You don't seem to have any trouble supporting him.




Your selective outrage is funny.

The history of the nation speaks for itself. Only one nation has footprints on the moon. We have the highest number of Nobel Prize winners, played key roles in winning both world wars, cured diseases, expanded freedom, capital, etc...

I'm not sure what you would call a "win" as nations go but I doubt many serious commentators would question that we've been uniquely successful as a nation.

stop moving the goal post,,

if we had no parties then no party would be hating each other,,

seems you just hate it when people wont accept your POV

 

[Votto]

And Trump is talking about sending troops into Illinois, and New York as you applaud it.

And you're saying the progressives are the ones who are giving the executive branch too much power?

Leftists thought they could empower the federal government to do pretty much anything and then get all bent out of shape if those powers ruffle their feathers.

Cry me a river.

 

[Chuz Life]

The issue for me is centralized power. The more power a given individual has, or group of individuals have, the more corruption there is.

Progressives are all about centralizing power, and they are in both parties. They have centralized power to the Executive Branch for far too long as states need to reclaim the power taken from them

Originally, the federal government was limited as states ran things, but now it is the polar opposite and why half the country wants to secede from the union every Presidential election. It was never meant to be like this.

A large part of your concerns are what my reasons were for choosing and using the Gadsen ("Don't Tread on Me") flag, symbols, and historical relevance as one of my primary starting points.

History of The Gadsden Flag - Don't Tread on Me Flag - Historical Americana

History of The Gadsden Flag – Don’t Tread on Me FlagDon’t Tread on Me Gadsden Flag History; Don’t Tread on Me! The bright yellow Gadsden flag, long a symbol of support for civil liberties and disagreement with government, has its beginning deeply rooted in the days of the American Revolution...

www.historicalamericana.com

 

[Chuz Life]

A third party would just devolve into what the current two have

What's needed is term limits where politicians are not entrenched and abusing the office

I don't disagree with you at all about the want or need for term limits. (One of my intended planks in the platform.) As far as concerns about a 3rd party devolving over time? That's probably a valid concern, too. However, I have to consider how much a shake up and a wake up call is to the GOP and the DNC both, when a 3rd Party (Like the Tea Party, for example) starts getting attention and traction. I see that as a positive effect.

 

[Chuz Life]

That sounds, essentially like the Tea Party/POT/Maga Republicans

The tea Party consisted of members of various parties - with one common goal.

Fair point, but oddly enough, I wanted little part of the Tea Party Movement. I thought the TP was poorly defined and my every attempt to engage with them (their supporters) on anything other than fiscal issues was unproductive and generally dismissive.

 

[Chuz Life]

a quick google , if i may Chuz>>>


Inalienable Rights in the Declaration of Independence

• Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness:
  .
  The Declaration of Independence asserts that these rights are endowed by a Creator and are not transferable by humans or governments.
• • Natural Rights:
    .
    Inalienable rights are considered "natural rights," meaning they exist inherently and are not granted by laws or governments.
  • Purpose of Government:
    .
    Governments are established to secure these rights, not to create or take them away.
  • 
    
  • ~S~

There are so many other great principles in the DOI, as well.

"Self evidence"

"Consent of the Governed"

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes"

"Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government."

"For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government."

It was then and remains still a masterpiece!

 

[Independent thinker]

A third party would just devolve into what the current two have

What's needed is term limits where politicians are not entrenched and abusing the office

I agree third parties are not only corrupt now but if they became more powerful they would become more corrupt. However, term limits are not the answer, for a whole slew of reasons. Just one being that both democrats are republicans and third parties are corrupt and if we have term limits we would still be faced with the corrupt parties. That's just one reason. Doesn't do any good if you term limit out a democrat or republican and elect yet another democrat or republican. All you accomplish is just having different candidate names. The D's and the R's are still there and that's where the corruption stems from and is the root cause.

 

[Billiejeens]

Fair point, but oddly enough, I wanted little part of the Tea Party Movement. I thought the TP was poorly defined and my every attempt to engage with them (their supporters) on anything other than fiscal issues was unproductive and generally dismissive.

Well,

Fiscal issues was their issue.

No cultural issues, nothing to divide them.

I think that it was very well and narrowly defined.

 

[Chuz Life]

I think that it was very well and narrowly defined.

I have to admit, this line sailed over my head.

 

[Votto]

Your interpretation is rather humorous.

If you're ashamed of MAGA (and you should be)--you're comparing them to "Nazi Hitler types"--not me....that's your problem.

I'm ashamed of the entire Federal government

Never has there been such a level of corruption, waste, and abuse, hence why this thread was begun in the first place.

 

[Votto]

A large part of your concerns are what my reasons were for choosing and using the Gadsen ("Don't Tread on Me") flag, symbols, and historical relevance as one of my primary starting points.

History of The Gadsden Flag - Don't Tread on Me Flag - Historical Americana

History of The Gadsden Flag – Don’t Tread on Me FlagDon’t Tread on Me Gadsden Flag History; Don’t Tread on Me! The bright yellow Gadsden flag, long a symbol of support for civil liberties and disagreement with government, has its beginning deeply rooted in the days of the American Revolution...

www.historicalamericana.com

Well, you are going to need more than a flag. You need to support the Article V movement and have your state representatives vote for it so we can amend the Constitution for things like Congressional term limits and a balanced federal budget.