The health care bill would impose $544 billion in new taxes

[Epsilon Delta]

I'm just curious, why is it that you guys advocate the system of choice for the poorest and most underdeveloped nations? Do any of you realize that, except for the US, every single "developed" country in the world has national health insurance, and the vast majority of UNDERdeveloped countries don't? I mean, what's the reconciliation for that? I mean, where is this "no national health insurance/care" model coming from? Where has it worked? is it prefectly justifiable to reject every single other DEVELOPED-country plans because of some ideological issue? How many here would benefit from government health care?

Just curious.

 

[sealybobo]

want more? okay here you are, when it comes to who is qualifies and who does not,

13 SEC. 202. EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOY14
ERS.
15 (a) ACCESS TO COVERAGE.—In accordance with this
16 section, all individuals are eligible to obtain coverage
17 through enrollment in an Exchange-participating health
18 benefits plan offered through the Health Insurance Ex19
change unless such individuals are enrolled in another
20 qualified health benefits plan or other acceptable coverage.
21 (b) DEFINITIONS.—In this division:
22 (1) EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUAL.—The
23 term ‘‘Exchange-eligible individual’’ means an indi24
vidual who is eligible under this section to be en25
rolled through the Health Insurance Exchange in an

1 Exchange-participating health benefits plan and,
2 with respect to family coverage, includes dependents
3 of such individual.

There are NO and I repeat no requirements for residency that would establish citizenship in this bill. So yes you will pay for those who don't pay taxes for their healthcare too.

Yea. I heard people talk about how they had an emergency in Switzerland or Canada and they weren't even citizens and yet the doctors cured them anyways.

Relax, you can pay a little more and go see a doctor who only sees rich people.

You know sealy I really appreciate you pointing that out because it actually backs up what I have been saying. What it says is thatfor the vast majority of people there will be low quailty healthcare after the passage of this bill and for those able to afford it, they will have access to the high quality healthcare that is until those "level playing field" types get upset about that too and then demand that no one be allowed to have high quality healthcare.

Not a chance, never gonna happen, and by the way, what you described is already reality or happening. We already have a low quailty healthcare system.

And you guys worry that doctors will make less. That too has already happened.

Sure reform could go wrong, but all the worst case scenerios won't happen. I found something worse than government! Its called for profit private companies. They employ a lot of people and they pay a lot in taxes, but they are corrupt.

You guys pointed something out to me too. You reminded me that Democrats are just as bad when it comes to taking money from private companies and doing their bidding over the interests of the American people. So you proved me right on two things. 1. That Republicans are doing that. Taking money from private companies and putting them first.

And 2. You also verify that these private for contract companies are the root of our problems.

They convinced you that government CAN'T work so that their private for profit companies can get their way on wages, free trade, nafta, deregulations, pollution, lawsuit settlements, unions, tax breaks.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Obama's plan will pay for itself with the saving and it will cover more people and give them choices that private health coverage does not.

if laughter is the best medicine, you've just cured millions of people of their infirmities

 

[Navy1960]

First let me address the negativity issue pointed out by someone on here, if you find my postings negative and boorish then I suggest you don't read them. If what is contanied in the bill is the completly different from what you have been told and that is negative and boorish then I hope it does have an impact like that because it gives you an idea of whats actually going on rather than the marketing side of what they would wish you to support. Now I'm going to post for you an article from a State that has a program with a "public option" somewhat similar to whats being proposed by congress and let you decide if there are any quality issues associated with it.

In January 1994 - on McWherter's watch - TennCare replaced Medicaid as the state's health insurance program for poor and uninsured Tennesseans. It operates through a system of managed care organizations.

Doctors and hospitals have complained ever since that the now $5.1 billion program has been underfunded by the state and federal governments, forcing them to carry too much of the cost. Citing inadequate compensation and paperwork hassles, many doctors and hospitals have dropped out of certain managed care organizations, and some have dropped TennCare altogether.

Nowhere else in U.S.

"There is no other state that is attempting to do this," said Jim Moss, president and CEO of West Tennessee Healthcare. West Tennessee Healthcare, anchored by 662-bed Jackson-Madison County General Hospital, is the region's largest employer with more than 4,800 workers and has annual net revenues near $280 million.

Besides problems with compensation for providers, TennCare has failed to help many of the most needy, Moss said. The poor can't find a provider to take them or they're left in the dark about how to access care, he said. In a speech before the Jackson Rotary Club last year, Moss said TennCare could be fixed by reducing the number of people in the program.

TennCare defended although detractors see huge problems - The Color of Death - A Jackson Sun Special Report

Want to see the future of Govt. run healthcare there it is in all it's glory, yes most people will most likely end up with Govt. run health insurance however that insurance will not address the issue of access to healthcare which will based on payment methods move for profit Doctors and Hospitals to more profitable area's. I'm sorry of you find this negative and boorish but if you and others that support this tax mandated debalce on the hill really wanted to do something about healthcare cost and wanted to lower it across the board so that everyone can have access to inexpensive healthcare then you would support addressing the real issues that cause these costs to rise.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yea. I heard people talk about how they had an emergency in Switzerland or Canada and they weren't even citizens and yet the doctors cured them anyways.

Relax, you can pay a little more and go see a doctor who only sees rich people.

You know sealy I really appreciate you pointing that out because it actually backs up what I have been saying. What it says is thatfor the vast majority of people there will be low quailty healthcare after the passage of this bill and for those able to afford it, they will have access to the high quality healthcare that is until those "level playing field" types get upset about that too and then demand that no one be allowed to have high quality healthcare.

Not a chance, never gonna happen, and by the way, what you described is already reality or happening. We already have a low quailty healthcare system.

And you guys worry that doctors will make less. That too has already happened.

Sure reform could go wrong, but all the worst case scenerios won't happen. I found something worse than government! Its called for profit private companies. They employ a lot of people and they pay a lot in taxes, but they are corrupt.

You guys pointed something out to me too. You reminded me that Democrats are just as bad when it comes to taking money from private companies and doing their bidding over the interests of the American people. So you proved me right on two things. 1. That Republicans are doing that. Taking money from private companies and putting them first.

And 2. You also verify that these private for contract companies are the root of our problems.

They convinced you that government CAN'T work so that their private for profit companies can get their way on wages, free trade, nafta, deregulations, pollution, lawsuit settlements, unions, tax breaks.

The sad thing ... you are mistaking the trunk for the root ... again. But that's typical of liberals ... and the one reason I won't even align with the true liberals, much less the neos like you. The corporations and companies are not the problem ... they are using the system as it is established ... it's the people who are regulating them that makes it possible for this crooked system to exist.

 

[Navy1960]

‘‘(B) NEGATIVE DETERMINATION.—If the
5 Secretary determines that the State has not en6
acted or does not have in effect the insurance
7 reforms described in paragraph (1), the Sec8
retary shall establish a Gateway in such State
9 as soon as practicable after the Secretary deter10
mines that such State has enacted such re11
forms.

For you Care

§ 6012. Persons required to make returns of income
How Current is This?(a) General rule
Returns with respect to income taxes under subtitle A shall be made by the following:
(1)
(A) Every individual having for the taxable year gross income which equals or exceeds the exemption amount, except that a return shall not be required of an individual

(c) ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS.—To be eligible to par4
ticipate in a Right Choices program under this section,
5 an individual shall—
6 (1) be a citizen or national of the United States
7 or an alien lawfully admitted to the United States
8 for permanent residence or otherwise residing in the
9 United States under color of law;
10 (2) not be covered under any health insurance
11 coverage during the 6-month period immediately
12 preceding the date of the determination of eligibility;
13 (3) have a family income that does not exceed
14 350 percent of the Federal poverty level for a family
15 of the size involved; and
16 (4) not be eligible for health care benefits pro17
vided through Medicare, Medicaid, the State Chil18
dren’s Health Insurance Program, the armed serv19
ices, or the Department of Veterans Affairs.


color of law n. the appearance of an act being performed based upon legal right or enforcement of statute, when in reality no such right exists. An outstanding example is found in the civil rights acts which penalize law enforcement officers for violating civil rights by making arrests "under color of law" of peaceful protestors or to disrupt voter registration. It could apply to phony traffic arrests in order to raise revenue from fines or extort payoffs to forget the ticket.

Care I don't know how to make it any more clear to you, however this is not a big source of contention for me personally, it is one of many. The biggest one for me is the way in which the bill places the burden of coverage on the states under Federal mandate.