The Green New Deal's Bad Science

[Viktor]

1) What is your science education that we should take your opinion over the world's degreed scientists?
2) The Green New Deal is a proposal, not law.

That is a LIE.

The Democrats in congress last year spent billions on Green New Deal technology.

The Federal govt. gives a large bonus to anyone who buys an Electric Vehicle.

Pres Biden by executive order, halted construction on an oil pipeline between the US and Canada. He did it to reduce the use of fossil fuels.

 

[Vrenn]

That is a LIE.

The Democrats in congress last year spent billions on Green New Deal technology.

New Green Deal projects were actually started in the 1950s under Eisenhower (republican along with republican congress). One day, someone with some horsepower took a look around them and noticed that we were completely trashing mother earth.

The Federal govt. gives a large bonus to anyone who buys an Electric Vehicle.

You leave out the fact that States are now giving money for you to install solar panels on new construction. They have also started to spend money on old construction that adds solar. Done properly, this meets the zero emission rule.

Pres Biden by executive order, halted construction on an oil pipeline between the US and Canada. He did it to reduce the use of fossil fuels.

The pipeline you are referring to is the Keystone XL. It was axed because we have zero use for it. And it was axed in areas that were detrimental to every living being on earth. It would have polluted ground water killing nature and taking away drinking water. Not If, but When.

Yah, I know, you hate Democrats but more has been done during Republicans than by Democrats to push for solar, wind and Hydro power.

 

[Crick]

Crick said: 2) The Green New Deal is a proposal, not a law

That is a LIE.

The Democrats in congress last year spent billions on Green New Deal technology.

The Federal govt. gives a large bonus to anyone who buys an Electric Vehicle.

Pres Biden by executive order, halted construction on an oil pipeline between the US and Canada. He did it to reduce the use of fossil fuels.

You really ought to know what the fuck you're talking about before you call someone a liar.

What is the Green New Deal?​

The Green New Deal is a congressional resolution that lays out a grand plan for tackling climate change.

Introduced by Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York and Senator Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts, both Democrats, the proposal calls on the federal government to wean the United States from fossil fuels and curb planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions across the economy. It also aims to guarantee new high-paying jobs in clean energy industries.

The resolution is nonbinding, so even if Congress approves it, nothing in the proposal would become law.

What Is the Green New Deal? A Climate Proposal, Explained (Published 2019)

If you’ve heard a lot recently about the Green New Deal but still aren’t quite sure what it is, we’re here to help.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ding]

Crick said: 2) The Green New Deal is a proposal, not a law


You really ought to know what the fuck you're talking about before you call someone a liar.

What is the Green New Deal?​

The Green New Deal is a congressional resolution that lays out a grand plan for tackling climate change.

Introduced by Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York and Senator Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts, both Democrats, the proposal calls on the federal government to wean the United States from fossil fuels and curb planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions across the economy. It also aims to guarantee new high-paying jobs in clean energy industries.

The resolution is nonbinding, so even if Congress approves it, nothing in the proposal would become law.

What Is the Green New Deal? A Climate Proposal, Explained (Published 2019)

If you’ve heard a lot recently about the Green New Deal but still aren’t quite sure what it is, we’re here to help.

www.nytimes.com

The best way to get rid of bad ideas is to embrace them fully. So I hope they plow full steam ahead so everyone gets to experience their predictable surprises.

 

[Crick]

The best way to get rid of bad ideas is to embrace them fully. So I hope they plow full steam ahead so everyone gets to experience their predictable surprises.

I disagree with your premise completely. Was it a good idea to fully embrace DDT? Cocaine tooth poweder? Heroin and morphine for pain? Thalidomide? Custer's Last Stand? The Inquisition? The Rwandan Massacre? The Armenian Genocide? The Holocaust?

Every time I see you put out that thought, I think you want to enjoy the suffering of your enemies.

 

[ding]

I disagree with your premise completely. Was it a good idea to fully embrace DDT? Cocaine tooth poweder? Heroin and morphine for pain? Thalidomide? Custer's Last Stand? The Inquisition? The Rwandan Massacre? The Armenian Genocide? The Holocaust?

Every time I see you put out that thought, I think you want to enjoy the suffering of your enemies.

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.”

"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.… But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed." Abraham Lincoln

 

[Crick]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.”

"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.… But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed." Abraham Lincoln

Mistakes are a much broader class than bad laws and can rarely be simply repealed".

As for Lincoln's comment, I see a rather critical distinction between "observed" and "enforced".

 

[ding]

Mistakes are a much broader class than bad laws and can rarely be simply repealed".

As for Lincoln's comment, I see a rather critical distinction between "observed" and "enforced".

I see no difference in the outcome. Experiencing the consequences of a bad idea or a bad law are the thing that gets rid of the bad idea or bad law.

 

[Viktor]

A‌braham Lincoln is often paraphrased as saying, “The best way ‌to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly.”

"When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws.… But I do mean to say, that, although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still while they continue in force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed." Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln was wrong. Bad laws cause injustice and hurt people, sometimes even kill them. The racial laws in the Deep South are classic. One way to get a bad law repealed is with civil disobedience protest.

 

[ding]

Lincoln was wrong. Bad laws cause injustice and hurt people, sometimes even kill them. The racial laws in the Deep South are classic. One way to get a bad law repealed is with civil disobedience protest.

Which bad laws create. Ergo that's why they should be enforced to the fullest extent.

 

[Stryder50]

Lincoln was wrong. Bad laws cause injustice and hurt people, sometimes even kill them. The racial laws in the Deep South are classic. One way to get a bad law repealed is with civil disobedience protest.

Some do "cause injustice and hurt people" and some don't. What is equally, if not more wrong is to make hyperbolic and blank statements such as this.
Also, "bad laws" is often also subjective.

 

[Stryder50]

First step in cleaning it up is to set the date that it must be completely cleaned up. In this case, it's not Nat Gas so much but it's cars and planes along with coal fired electric plants.

Had we continued with the dirty motors in autos and trucks, you wouldn't see gray film over a few cities, you would see black clouds over MOST cities. We have been cleaning up cars and trucks for the last 70+ years. Remember when there was no PCV Valves on engines (it was a straight pipe from the crankcase that just dripped onto the roads and polluted the air. That was a start. And you have to start somewhere or it's never going to get done. It won't even partially get done.

When it comes to coal fired electric plants, here in USA, Europe, and other parts of the developed world, there are standards for "flue gas desulfurization" which result in only water vapor and CO2 out of the stacks.
...
Flue-gas desulfurization (FGD) is a set of technologies used to remove sulfur dioxide (SO2) from exhaust flue gases of fossil-fuel power plants, and from the emissions of other sulfur oxide emitting processes such as waste incineration.
... Flue-gas desulfurization - Wikipedia

Alas, places like CCP China and India don't use these scrubbers.

Then we find idiots like this;

Startup Says It's Started Releasing Chemical Into Atmosphere to Dim Sun​

...
A small environmental startup called Make Sunsets has started injecting sulfur dioxide particles into the stratosphere in an effort to ever-so-slightly cool the planet, a provocative and unproven method of combating a growing climate crisis.

As The Washington Post reports, the company's CEO and founder Luke Iseman released six-foot helium balloons filled with sulfur dioxide over Baja California in Mexico last year.

The goal was to have the balloons release sulfur dioxide particles at high altitudes, reflecting the Sun's heating rays back into space, a process commonly referred to as solar geoengineering.

According to MIT Technology Review, the stunt — despite its tiny scale and unsophisticated methodology — likely marked the first time anyone has actually attempted such a feat.

"We joke slash not joke that this is partly a company and partly a cult," Iseman told MIT Tech late last year.

Make Sunsets is blazing ahead despite plenty of criticism and uproar over previous geoengineering efforts. For one, as critics are quick to point out, we don't even know if the idea will work — or if it could have unintended consequences.

"The current state of science is not good enough... to either reject, or to accept, let alone implement" solar geoengineering, Janos Pasztor, executive director of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative, told MIT Tech in an email, adding that it is a "very bad idea."
...

MSN

www.msn.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The USA EPA started to mandate (by Law) about 40+ years ago that USA coal (and "fossil") fuel electric power plants reduce their sulfur dioxide(SO2) emissions to as close to zero as possible. For those not up to speed on their science, atmospheric SO2 is the source of acid rain.

Then we get yahoos like those in the article above, who are ignorant of science and environmental laws and so far not getting punished or made to stop.

Another sign of what both sides of the issue are dealing with.

BTW, the author of that article is also not fully informed either.

 

[Vrenn]

When it comes to coal fired electric plants, here in USA, Europe, and other parts of the developed world, there are standards for "flue gas desulfurization" which result in only water vapor and CO2 out of the stacks.
...
Flue-gas desulfurization (FGD) is a set of technologies used to remove sulfur dioxide (SO2) from exhaust flue gases of fossil-fuel power plants, and from the emissions of other sulfur oxide emitting processes such as waste incineration.
... Flue-gas desulfurization - Wikipedia

Alas, places like CCP China and India don't use these scrubbers.

Then we find idiots like this;

Startup Says It's Started Releasing Chemical Into Atmosphere to Dim Sun​

...
A small environmental startup called Make Sunsets has started injecting sulfur dioxide particles into the stratosphere in an effort to ever-so-slightly cool the planet, a provocative and unproven method of combating a growing climate crisis.

As The Washington Post reports, the company's CEO and founder Luke Iseman released six-foot helium balloons filled with sulfur dioxide over Baja California in Mexico last year.

The goal was to have the balloons release sulfur dioxide particles at high altitudes, reflecting the Sun's heating rays back into space, a process commonly referred to as solar geoengineering.

According to MIT Technology Review, the stunt — despite its tiny scale and unsophisticated methodology — likely marked the first time anyone has actually attempted such a feat.

"We joke slash not joke that this is partly a company and partly a cult," Iseman told MIT Tech late last year.

Make Sunsets is blazing ahead despite plenty of criticism and uproar over previous geoengineering efforts. For one, as critics are quick to point out, we don't even know if the idea will work — or if it could have unintended consequences.

"The current state of science is not good enough... to either reject, or to accept, let alone implement" solar geoengineering, Janos Pasztor, executive director of the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative, told MIT Tech in an email, adding that it is a "very bad idea."
...

MSN

www.msn.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The USA EPA started to mandate (by Law) about 40+ years ago that USA coal (and "fossil") fuel electric power plants reduce their sulfur dioxide(SO2) emissions to as close to zero as possible. For those not up to speed on their science, atmospheric SO2 is the source of acid rain.

Then we get yahoos like those in the article above, who are ignorant of science and environmental laws and so far not getting punished or made to stop.

Another sign of what both sides of the issue are dealing with.

BTW, the author of that article is also not fully informed either.

We have one coal fired boiler making electricity. And it isn't using your high power scrubber. That's been available for almost 100 years but has not been widely used due to the cost of operation. Once we have the next batch of solar online, the last boiler shuts down. In the 70s, the conversion to NGs from coal was beginning. Since the Curcani Series was put in and NG was introduced Coal was slowly being replaced by cleaner methods. It's strange that coal has lasted this long. By 2025, Colorado will have zero Coal fired Electric Plants. But it hasn't' been the NG that has replaced Coal, it's been solar and wind.

 

[ding]

But it hasn't' been the NG that has replaced Coal, it's been solar and wind.

That's not really an accurate statement since the conversion from coal to NG began in the 1970's, right?

 

[ding]

By 2025, Colorado will have zero Coal fired Electric Plants. But it hasn't' been the NG that has replaced Coal, it's been solar and wind.

Seems like a tall order for just two years away.

The corresponding electrical energy generation mix in 2021 was 41.6% coal, 25.5% natural gas, 26.5% wind, 2.9% hydroelectric, 3.1% solar, and 0.3% biomass.

List of power stations in Colorado - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Stryder50]

We have one coal fired boiler making electricity. And it isn't using your high power scrubber. That's been available for almost 100 years but has not been widely used due to the cost of operation. Once we have the next batch of solar online, the last boiler shuts down. In the 70s, the conversion to NGs from coal was beginning. Since the Curcani Series was put in and NG was introduced Coal was slowly being replaced by cleaner methods. It's strange that coal has lasted this long. By 2025, Colorado will have zero Coal fired Electric Plants. But it hasn't' been the NG that has replaced Coal, it's been solar and wind.

Classic Libtard!
Focus on a detail, fail to grasp the fuller message.
I doubt your solar and wind is generating the same capacity, on call, all the time.

 

[Crick]

Classic Libtard!
Focus on a detail, fail to grasp the fuller message.
I doubt your solar and wind is generating the same capacity, on call, all the time.

Looks to me like the "fuller message" is that wind and solar are replacing coal.

 

[ding]

I hope Colorado gets rid of all fossil fuel plants. That way they can get what they wished for. The sooner the better. There's no better way to get rid of a bad idea than to experience the consequences of a bad idea.

 

[Stryder50]

Looks to me like the "fuller message" is that wind and solar are replacing coal.

The replacement is based on political agenda, and partisan financial interests.
Not because they are more efficient, productive, economical, or environmentally competitive with coal when it is using scrubber/FGD tech.

Also appears you again fail on the science and tech part since you also haven't a clue on the SO2 aspect of my post.

 

[ReinyDays]

Are you people seriously arguing that Hanford and Oakridge don't need cleaning up? ...

Crick read the New Green Deal ... if you haven't ... you maybe should SHUT THE FUCK UP ... because Crick has made you look like MORONS ... that's a bad habit ...