The Greater Israel Theory is an Antisemitic Myth

[toomuchtime_]

Wow, talk about historical revisionism. If you are talking about the Jews that remained in the Middle East, that were living as second class citizens in Muslim lands, then you are talking about the Mizrahi Jews. Funny thing, the Mizrahi have been systematically discriminated against, living as second class citizens, in ISRAEL. The key word here, the one no one knows, Ashkenormative.

Here is my peace offer. We return all of Israel to the Mizrahi. Hell, I bet the Palestinians will up and voluntarily leave. Those other Arab countries will let them in. Or better, they won't have to leave. They can become citizens of the new Mizrahi Israel. There is no doubt, the Mizrahi would treat them better than the current Ashkenormative Likuid party. And there is no doubt they will have better relations with their neighbors.

As to the Ashkenazi living in Israel. Get out, get out now. You hear both sides wax about how peaceful they lived together before Israel was created. Well hell, that is because the Ashkenazi weren't there. I mean even within sects of Judaism, you can clearly see the divide. Take the Haredim, the majority of the illegal settlers. The Ashkenazi branch, the majority of membership, rampant Zionist. But the Sephardic Haredim, theologically neutral when it comes to the State of Israel and only reluctantly following the leadership in support of Zionism.

Ok, so you're saying you are a slow learner as well as a racist. By law in Muslim lands Jews were second class citizens subject to persecutions and humiliation, but in Israel all Jews and Arab citizens have the same rights. Apparently that is a difficult concept for you to comprehend but try.

The Arabs always refused to live in peace with the Jews since the 6th century. The Jews in the ME were a conquered people who were held in contempt by their Arab conquerors and made to suffer persecution and humiliations for centuries until western values arrived in the ME after WWI and the Jews in the ME were able to free themselves.

The problems with the Palestinians all come from their refusal to live in peace with Jews, from the 6th century right down to today.

Obviously, this whole subject is too difficult for you to comprehend.

 

[Winston]

Ok, so you're saying you are a slow learner as well as a racist. By law in Muslim lands Jews were second class citizens subject to persecutions and humiliation, but in Israel all Jews and Arab citizens have the same rights. Apparently that is a difficult concept for you to comprehend but try.

The Arabs always refused to live in peace with the Jews since the 6th century. The Jews in the ME were a conquered people who were held in contempt by their Arab conquerors and made to suffer persecution and humiliations for centuries until western values arrived in the ME after WWI and the Jews in the ME were able to free themselves.

You are living in a fantasy world. Jews and Palestinians are not treated equally in Israel. The Right of Return just one clear indicator. Someone can claim to be a Jew and even a convicted murderer here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel. But the wife of a Palestinian Israeli, no citizenship for her. Health care access, voting access, educational spending, Jews and Palestinians are separated, it is an Apartheid government in every sense of the word, even Jimmy Carter attested to that reality. It is time the rest of the world did.

In opposition, Iran has one of the largest Jewish populations in the Middle East. In fact, the largest outside of Israel. They have synagogues, schools, businesses, and again, are more closely related to the 12 tribes than any of the Ashkenazi. Yes, they are persecuted, but no less than the Palestinians within Israel itself.

 

[rosends]

You are living in a fantasy world. Jews and Palestinians are not treated equally in Israel. The Right of Return just one clear indicator. Someone can claim to be a Jew and even a convicted murderer here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel. But the wife of a Palestinian Israeli, no citizenship for her. Health care access, voting access, educational spending, Jews and Palestinians are separated, it is an Apartheid government in every sense of the word, even Jimmy Carter attested to that reality. It is time the rest of the world did.

This isn't apartheid. The laws of Israel apply to citizens, including the 20 percent who are Arabs. That 20 percent have the rights of citizens. Non citizen Arabs do not have those rights. And if you think "Someone can claim to be a Jew and. .. here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel." then you know little about the process.

In opposition, Iran has one of the largest Jewish populations in the Middle East. In fact, the largest outside of Israel. They have synagogues, schools, businesses, and again, are more closely related to the 12 tribes than any of the Ashkenazi. Yes, they are persecuted, but no less than the Palestinians within Israel itself.

I found an interesting quote, "Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews face certain restrictions, including limitations on holding some senior government or military positions. "

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facade-of-tolerance-toward-persian-jews/

Are Jews citizens of Iran?

 

[Winston]

This isn't apartheid. The laws of Israel apply to citizens, including the 20 percent who are Arabs. That 20 percent have the rights of citizens. Non citizen Arabs do not have those rights. And if you think "Someone can claim to be a Jew and. .. here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel." then you know little about the process.

I found an interesting quote, "Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews face certain restrictions, including limitations on holding some senior government or military positions. "

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facade-of-tolerance-toward-persian-jews/

Are Jews citizens of Iran?

Yes, they are citizens of Iran. They are a recognized religious minority with guaranteed protected rights. They are constitutionally guaranteed a seat in the Parliament.

 

[rosends]

Yes, they are citizens of Iran. They are a recognized religious minority with guaranteed protected rights. They are constitutionally guaranteed a seat in the Parliament.

So citizens are limited based on religion? Now that's where you should be asking about apartheid.

 

[Winston]

This isn't apartheid. The laws of Israel apply to citizens, including the 20 percent who are Arabs. That 20 percent have the rights of citizens. Non citizen Arabs do not have those rights. And if you think "Someone can claim to be a Jew and. .. here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel." then you know little about the process.

I found an interesting quote, "Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews face certain restrictions, including limitations on holding some senior government or military positions. "

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facade-of-tolerance-toward-persian-jews/

Are Jews citizens of Iran?

Today, about 90% of Palestinian citizens of Israel live in 139 densely populated towns and villages in the Galilee and Triangle regions in northern Israel and the Negev/Naqab region in the south. The remaining 10% live in “mixed cities”, including Haifa, Ramla, Lod, Jaffa and Acre. As will be seen below, this has been the result of deliberate policies by the government of Israel to segregate Palestinian citizens of Israel into enclaves as part of the wider goal of ensuring the Jewish settlement and control of as much of Israel’s territory as possible.

Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel system of domination and crime against humanity - Amnesty International

Amnesty International has analysed Israel’s intent to create and maintain a system of oppression and domination over Palestinians and examined its key components: territorial fragmentation; segregation and control; dispossession of land and property; and denial of economic and social rights. It...

www.amnesty.org

 

[Churchill]

To counteract the lie being pushed by antisemites on this thread, I bring up the reasons why the Greater Israel project is being twisted to drive more hostility toward Jews:

1) Israel has always offered land for peace, thus willing to reduce its area, but the Jew-hating Palestinians have always rejected the offers.

2) Any increase in land mass (now currently 0.4% with Arabs taking 99.6%) has been a fraction of a percent and driven by security concerns - not expansion.

3) Those who are claiming Israel’s war on Iran is driven by this “expansion” myth ignore that Israel never had any plans to take any part of Iran.

4) In 1979, Israel returned the entire Sinai Peninsula to Egypt.

5) In 2005, Israel vacated Gaza. (And look at the thanks they got.)


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Why the “Greater Israel” theory is false - IsraelFAQs

This post is also available in: English Español (Spanish) Italiano (Italian) Português (Portuguese (Brazil)) Русский (Russian)Short answer Anti-Israel voices often accuse the country of pursuing a so-called “Greater Israel” agenda—claiming it is driven by a religiously motivated, systematic...

israelfaqs.com

We get it, you're a dedicated Zionist.

 

[Winston]

So citizens are limited based on religion? Now that's where you should be asking about apartheid.

Yes, in Israel.

 

[Churchill]

The "greater Israel" story, and all the other stories presented on this thread. All designed to disconnect and erase the Jewish people from their homeland and/or paint them as inherently problematic to live with.

In the past few weeks 1 million people have been ethnically cleansed from south Lebanon, Smotrich then announced that the Litani river will be the new border.

 

[Churchill]

This isn't apartheid. The laws of Israel apply to citizens, including the 20 percent who are Arabs. That 20 percent have the rights of citizens. Non citizen Arabs do not have those rights. And if you think "Someone can claim to be a Jew and. .. here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel." then you know little about the process.

I found an interesting quote, "Like other religious minorities in Iran, Jews face certain restrictions, including limitations on holding some senior government or military positions. "

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facade-of-tolerance-toward-persian-jews/

Are Jews citizens of Iran?

There are 100 synagogues in Iran, 600 churches, there are very ancient Jewish and Christian communities in Iran. Some Jews prefer Iran to Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Jews and Palestinians are not treated equally in Israel.

Right away, you are confusing ethnicity and nationality. Do you mean Jews and Arabs? Or do you mean Israelis and Palestinians?

Health care access, voting access, educational spending, Jews and Palestinians are separated, it is an Apartheid government in every sense of the word.

There is disparity between Jews and Arabs in Israel (as there is in many countries, including Canada and the US). There is also separation (largely cultural and preferred by both groups). This does not meet the definition of "apartheid", which is a distinct system of legal and forced segregation based on race (ethnicity).

In opposition, Iran has one of the largest Jewish populations in the Middle East. In fact, the largest outside of Israel. They have synagogues, schools, businesses, and again.

Are you arguing that Arabs in Israel don't have synagogues, schools, businesses? They do.

 

[Churchill]

As for Greater Israel it had zero square miles until 1948, then the terrorism based Zionist community acquired territory and then ethnically cleaned hundreds of thousands of non-Jews, from day 1 it sought to expand.

 

[Shusha]

In the past few weeks 1 million people have been ethnically cleansed from south Lebanon, Smotrich then announced that the Litani river will be the new border.

They have been evacuated to prevent incidental harm. They are not being removed because of their ethnicity, but because of war.

And yes, one odious dude in Israel can claim to want to illegally change the borders of his state, but that doesn't make it real, legitimate, or likely to happen.

 

[Winston]

(largely cultural and preferred by both groups).

Boy howdy, don't that sound familiar.

 

[Churchill]

They have been evacuated to prevent incidental harm. They are not being removed because of their ethnicity, but because of war.

No, that's the cover story, they have been ethnically cleansed, their homes blown up.

And yes, one odious dude in Israel can claim to want to illegally change the borders of his state, but that doesn't make it real, legitimate, or likely to happen.

Please show me the reports of Netanyahu condemning Smotrich's remarks...

 

[Shusha]

The Right of Return just one clear indicator. Someone can claim to be a Jew and even a convicted murderer here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel. But the wife of a Palestinian Israeli, no citizenship for her.

The "right of return" does not fall under the definition of "apartheid". Apartheid is specifically an system of legal discrimination for citizens of the State based on race (ethnicity).

There is no such thing as a "right of return". Every State has the right to its formulate and enforce its own immigration policies. Many, many States have immigration policies which preference the ethnic group indigenous to that homeland. Israel is no different. Your two provided examples are, at best, exaggerations.

As contrast, please outline the procedure in which a Jew can gain citizenship in the State of Palestine? How many such Jews are there, in Palestine? Can the Jewish wife of a Jewish Palestinian gain citizenship? Will the future State of Palestine be ethnically cleansed of Jews, or will there be a substantial percentage of Jewish citizens of Palestine?

 

[eagle1462010]

The behaviour of the Netanyahu government in committing genocide on the Palestinians is driving anti-Israel sentiment.

The Jews left the Middle East nearly 2000 years ago. They came back in 1949, after 2000 years in exile, and reclaimed land they hadn't lived on since the birth of Jesus.

And now you say it's wrong for the Arabs not to give them back whatever land they want to claim.

Ragheads chose Hitler WWII.

Bad move

 

[Shusha]

No, that's the cover story, they have been ethnically cleansed, their homes blown up.

You know this only works when you assume evil intent on the part of Israelis (Jews) and completely ignore the unlawful aggression by the Hezbollah terrorists. I'll ask you too. Are you in favour of terrorism, or do you just deny it?

 

[Churchill]

Ragheads chose Hitler WWII.

Bad move

You mean?

 

[toomuchtime_]

You are living in a fantasy world. Jews and Palestinians are not treated equally in Israel. The Right of Return just one clear indicator. Someone can claim to be a Jew and even a convicted murderer here in the US will gain citizenship in Israel. But the wife of a Palestinian Israeli, no citizenship for her. Health care access, voting access, educational spending, Jews and Palestinians are separated, it is an Apartheid government in every sense of the word, even Jimmy Carter attested to that reality. It is time the rest of the world did.

In opposition, Iran has one of the largest Jewish populations in the Middle East. In fact, the largest outside of Israel. They have synagogues, schools, businesses, and again, are more closely related to the 12 tribes than any of the Ashkenazi. Yes, they are persecuted, but no less than the Palestinians within Israel itself.

Your high level of ignorance and intelligence deficit is again apparent in this post. All Israeli citizens, Jewish or Arab, have the same rights under the law. The Law of Return is not a right of Israeli citizens but of Jews who are not Israeli citizens, and it is not absolute. Israel does refuse Jews because of their criminal history.








AI Overview



Yes, Israel can and does turn away Jewish applicants for citizenship under the Law of Return if they have a criminal background that poses a danger to public welfare or if they pose a security threat
. While the Law of Return grants Jews the right to immigrate, the Minister of the Interior may deny this right based on serious criminal history or actions against the Jewish people.

The Jewish Agency for Israel +3
Key details regarding the denial of citizenship to Jewish applicants include:

• Criminal Record Clauses: The law allows for rejection if the applicant has a criminal past "likely to endanger public welfare".
• Security Threats: Individuals deemed a threat to the security of the State of Israel, such as those involved in treason, can be denied.
• Other Grounds: Citizenship can also be refused for individuals with illnesses that pose a serious public health risk, fugitives from justice, or those involved in activities against the Jewish people.
• Examples: While rare, this provision has been used, famously in the case of American mobster Meyer Lansky, who was denied permanent residency, notes Wikipedia.
  
  
  The Jewish Agency for Israel +3

Applicants are generally required to provide a background check from their country of origin during the application process.

There is no discrimination under the law for healthcare access, voting access or education among Israeli citizens, Arab or Jewish.

AI Overview



It is accurate that certain Arab schools in Israel are top performers, often achieving higher matriculation rates than Jewish schools
. In 2024, Arab students achieved a 78.3% high school graduation rate, surpassing the Jewish sector and marking a significant, narrowing gap in educational achievement.

YouTube +3

• Top Performers: The Darca Druze High School for Science and Leadership in Yarka and Al-Qasemi High School in Baka al-Garbiyeh have been ranked among the top schools for outstanding matriculation results.
• Academic Leadership: The Arab education system has seen improvements in teacher qualifications, with the share of teachers holding an academic degree sometimes exceeding that of the Hebrew system.
• Christian Arab Students: Historically, Christian Arab students have shown high success rates on matriculation exams, frequently leading or equaling top performances, notes The Times of Israel.
• Integrated Education: Beyond segregated systems, the Hand in Hand bilingual Jewish-Arab schools, such as the Max Rayne Jerusalem School, have been recognized globally for excellence and fostering coexistence.
  
  
  The Guardian +4

While many top-performing schools are in the Arab sector, national averages have historically shown gaps, but recent data highlights the exceptional achievements of these specific institutions.

Since the term, apartheid means having separate laws for different groups of citizens, and since there are no such laws in Israel, only a liar or an idiot would make the claim that Israel is an apartheid state, but since the 6th century all Muslim states have clearly been apartheid states.