The Good Jews - Karaites

[rtwngAvngr]

Not really. It's just what Nienna has been trying to say, while agreeing with you. You leave by your behavior, no room for discussion. By locking that door, there is no hope for you of convincing anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling, to change their mind.

What I've seen is hate, not adulturated, but in a pure form. I'm not going there.

Kathianne, tell me what you disagree with me on? I'm not advocating forced conversion of anyone to anything. I believe in religiously free societies, where a person CAN believe christ is the only way, or he may believe christ is idol worship, or he may believe mohammed's ideas are the best. All I can say is that I do not SEE that SAME TOLERANCE in Islam, and now not in orthodox judaism either, not if noahide theocracy is the goal. WHere is the hate? Is the truth hate?

 

[dilloduck]

There is no Jewish sect which seeks to force adherance or even to convince others to adhere to their beliefs. Proselytizing is forbidden under Jewish law. The negative things RWA posts are based on conspiracy theories... kind of like if you took the beliefs of the nutcase who murdered the abortion doctor and attributed them to all Christians just because he called himself Christian.

Christians are commanded to proselytze. Do you begrudge them that? Israel is gonna need friends here real soon

 

[rtwngAvngr]

There is no Jewish sect which seeks to force adherance or even to convince others to adhere to their beliefs. Proselytizing is forbidden under Jewish law. The negative things RWA posts are based on conspiracy theories... kind of like if you took the beliefs of the nutcase who murdered the abortion doctor and attributed them to all Christians just because he called himself Christian.

Wrong jillian. The talmud teaches that all humans are either jews or noahides, like it or not. They feel that the seven noahide laws are binding on all humanity and it is their duty to bring this knowledge TO all of humanity and to set up courts to enforce these laws on ALL of humanity. Go read about noahide concepts at any of a MILLION sites on the internet. I'm growing weary of your steadfast ignorance.

 

[Annie]

Kathianne, tell me what you disagree with me on? I'm not advocating forced conversion of anyone to anything. I believe in religiously free societies, where a person CAN believe christ is the only way, or he may believe christ is idol worship, or he may believe mohammed's ideas are the best. All I can say is that I do not SEE that SAME TOLERANCE in Islam, and now not in orthodox judaism either, not if noahide theocracy is the goal. WHere is the hate? Is the truth hate?

I don't see tolerance by the mainstream Islamics. I hear voices here and there, and applaud them, but they are like shout outs in the wilderness.

I've had a lot more interactions with Jewish people, few of the orthodox I'll grant. They, like myself, held to their beliefs, certain of their correctness. Yet, they had no problem in dealing with my beliefs, though they certainly disagreed.

For some reason, I don't harbor a lot of ill will towards such, though I do for certain individuals that claim to be Jews.

Then again, there are many more, (because that's what I'm surrounded by), Christians that I disagree with, many of whom would claim that Catholics are not christian. Go figure.

It's really a matter of experiences and perspectives on how we view others.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Not really. It's just what Nienna has been trying to say, while agreeing with you. You leave by your behavior, no room for discussion. By locking that door, there is no hope for you of convincing anyone who doesn't buy what you're selling, to change their mind.

What I've seen is hate, not adulturated, but in a pure form. I'm not going there.

If you need to assert this lie that I embody pure hate to get out of a discussion you can't handle, then be my guest. See ya!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I don't see tolerance by the mainstream Islamics. I hear voices here and there, and applaud them, but they are like shout outs in the wilderness.

I've had a lot more interactions with Jewish people, few of the orthodox I'll grant. They, like myself, held to their beliefs, certain of their correctness. Yet, they had no problem in dealing with my beliefs, though they certainly disagreed.

For some reason, I don't harbor a lot of ill will towards such, though I do for certain individuals that claim to be Jews.

Then again, there are many more, (because that's what I'm surrounded by), Christians that I disagree with, many of whom would claim that Catholics are not christian. Go figure.

It's really a matter of experiences and perspectives on how we view others.

I just think you should be aware of beliefs contained in their religious texts and how B'nai noah societies are growing every day. Plus you should entertain the possibility that jews may lie about their beliefs, just like islamists who claim jihad is an "inner struggle" when they're interacting with outsiders. Just consider that jews aren't perfect, and perhaps that their religion may indeed have theocratic aspects to it, not well known to outsiders. Can a jew lie kathianne? Is it possible?

 

[Annie]

I just think you should be aware of beliefs contained in their religious texts and how B'nai noah societies are growing every day. Plus you should entertain the possibility that jews may lie about their beliefs, just like islamists who claim jihad is an "inner struggle" when they're interacting with outsiders. Just consider that jews aren't perfect, and perhaps that their religion may indeed have theocratic aspects to it, not well known to outsiders. Can a jew lie kathianne? Is it possible?

Ok, after saying you didn't wish to speak with me anymore, you did. Fine with me. Did you read what I wrote, what you quoted? Should. be. crystal. clear.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ok, after saying you didn't wish to speak with me anymore, you did. Fine with me. Did you read what I wrote, what you quoted? Should. be. crystal. clear.

You said we had nothing to discuss because I embodied hatred, or because I dare call your new age crap, new age crap. I said that was fine. Don't blame me because you're throwing snit fits.

What you wrote seems to be an overreliance on. anecdotal. evidence. and not a real study of doctrine. and. teaching.

Kind of like how libs get snippy if you say jihad is real and then say "But I know muslims who don't try to kill me", as if that means terrorism isn't a threat.

 

[5stringJeff]

And regarding that article I've referenced twice about catholics teaching that jews don't need jesus, you mysteriously get reading comprehension problems when what it says is unambiguous and has been begrudgingly admitted to by 5string, avatar, abbey, nienna, and others to contain a clear message "jews don't need jesus". So even if I post stuff, if you don't like it, your brain shuts down, or else you so full of loathing to admit I'm right you just harumph away in a fit of undeserved righteousness.

I didn't begrudge the point. I specifically called it theologically incorrect.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I didn't begrudge the point. I specifically called it theologically incorrect.

I know you did. Kathianne was unable or unwilling to acknowledge what the article even said.

 

[Eightball]

What does pointing out the peculiarities of the noahide system have to do with forced conversion. I believe in religious pluralistic and tolerant societies. I guess I'm offending everyone because I believe christianity should be tolerated as well. Call me silly.

The very author of Christianity, "Jesus" explicitly stated more than once, that being a follower of His wasn't a free pass at having the world tolerate you.

To the contrary, He(Jesus), said that the "world" would "hate" you if you became His follower. In other words, the internal spiritual change that occurs at conversion would separate a person from the "lost" spiritual condition of humanity that rejects or is not a part of God's family, via acceptance of Christ as one's Lord, and Saviour.

Christianity will never be tolerated in the league of religions as Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism....are.......Yes there will be geo-political wars/conflicts that will center around cultural differences, and their belief systems will be advertised as the reason. These conflicts are just normal, out of control humanity attempting to find peace, purpose, and identity without a spiritual relationship with God.

Even the Clinton year's war in Serbia wasn't really a conflict between Christianity and Islam. Most that used the Christian moniker........i.e. Serbian Orthodox church.....rarely displayed the actions or lives that typified true biblical conversion.

I'm not singling-out the Serbian Orthodox in total, as I know there are bonifide believers within their ranks. It's just that most of these conflicts are cultural in nature, and have derived their roots from religious differences, but not spiritual differences, as revealed/explained by Jesus, and His apostles, in N.T. scripture.

True, converted Christians, will typify a radical change of nature in their lives in every aspect. No longer will worldly lusts/needs be high on their live's priority lists. Love for the unconverted, love for the gift of human life, love for their creator because of the gift of grace bestowed upon them, will typify the true Christian as they mature in their faith.

One of the most prolific N.T. authors, Paul, never wrote-off the Jews as being impossible to convert, or already saved via a different non-gentile intended gospel of God that didn't need Christ's involvement.

In fact, Paul mentioned how much his heart ached for his bretheren(fellow Jews) to come to Christ in conversion. He also explicity said that God's offering of salvation to the gentile was caused in part, via the hardness of the Jews to the gospel message via Christ. He actually said that in some ways, God's move to the gentiles could and would stimulate envy and jealousy by the Jews. It was hoped that this envy/jealousy would help move the Jew towards Christ, and ultimate conversion. The N.T. didn't write-off the Jew's conversion, but said that it would be miniscule in magnitude to the gentile conversion until the end times were at the threshold.

So folks, when you see, a mass move in Israel towards Christ, you are seeing God's provisions unfolding and world/earth history coming to a threshold.

Israel's move towards Christ in masse, I believe is still quite a ways in the future, but Israel's establishment as a nation in 1948, was biblical prophecy being validated.

I believe that the popular thrust of biblical Christians(Pat Robertson...etc.) in trying to influence or bring the U.S. culture/government into a more Christian enshrouded embrace, may be Don Quixotic. As mentioned earlier, Christian influence in the lives, culture, and government of countries that do not embrace biblical values, isn't a formula for success.

I'm as hopeful as any Christian, but ultimately, I have to look back to scripture to keep from becoming pulled into all kinds of hopes for this world. This world is very temporary if I'm to believe what Christ says. This world will go through much travail, as mankind flounders into every manmade religion that's possible to contrive. Some of these religions will give polite creedence to Jesus, and some will totally deny Him. Bottom line, Jesus cannot be allowed to be who He really is to unconverted mankind, as unconverted mankind would be forced to introspectively look at itself and have to accept their human fallibility and Christ's Lordship.

The great commission issued by Christ in Matthew's gospel, is not nullified by Christ's statement that "the world will not know or love you(His believers), as they didn't know or Love Me from the beginning".. The very life of Christians is and will continue to be, "salt and light" to this world. There will be both gentile and Jews that will step out of their lost, worldly lives, and will be called by this good news of Christ. The gentile time of conversion in masse has been ongoing since Pentacost, but the time of the Jews in masse is also coming.

There will be no distinction between gentile or Jew in God's new earth. God is going to be leveling the playing field. There will be no room for conspiracy theorys, as all things will become plain in the light of God's truth.

If leaders of nations become Christians, then there may be an influence upon that nation's peoples. In the case of the U.S., the biblical American church has been very active in supporting Christian politician in elections. Some of these candidates have been successful, and some have not. I don't think it is necessarily the way God plans to convert humanity, but at times it may be an avenue.

Most conversions will happen on a one-on-one relationship between fellow human beings. It will happen as Christians inject themselves into society, and live-out their lives in humble, gratitude, and love for their Creator and his created humanity. The unconverted are always observing the biblical Christian's life. Christ emphatically said that He would call humanity to him through his followers. We were likened as Honey, that attracts flies to it's sweetness. Some of humanity will reject the honey. Why? I don't know. Only God knows. All I know is that a lot of humanity will reject Christ, and a many will be the converted. Man's will is a mystery, and it's man's will that determines what he chooses and rejects. We weren't created as autmatons, but created as free thinking, free-acting, creatures. The converted are not "sheeples" but results of free-will decisions.

GWB is a biblical Christian, and is the Commander and Chief, yet his Christian life/values hasn't changed, or brought back this nation to embracing Christian values, or precipitated mass Christian conversion.

Being a Christian, is more than copying a life(GWB's) that we envy, it's a total personal change preciptitated by personal, internal, introspection of one's life that's confronted with God's truth/reality.

I don't care how Godly the life of our leaders are in this or any country. It will not cause en-masse conversions, unless we want to use the Roman empire's mass Christian embrace nearly 2,000 years ago as the example. In the Roman case, it was basically, the exceptance of Christianity as the governments new, recognized religion. That's ok, but the average Roman didn't become a biblical Christian because their leadership adopted Christianity. It's still a personal, one-on-one decision.
*
I've rambled too much.......signing out.
*

 

[5stringJeff]

The very author of Christianity, "Jesus" explicitly stated more than once, that being a follower of His wasn't a free pass at having the world tolerate you.

To the contrary, He(Jesus), said that the "world" would "hate" you if you became His follower. In other words, the internal spiritual change that occurs at conversion would separate a person from the "lost" spiritual condition of humanity that rejects or is not a part of God's family, via acceptance of Christ as one's Lord, and Saviour.

Christianity will never be tolerated in the league of religions as Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism....are.......Yes there will be geo-political wars/conflicts that will center around cultural differences, and their belief systems will be advertised as the reason. These conflicts are just normal, out of control humanity attempting to find peace, purpose, and identity without a spiritual relationship with God.

...(snip)...

I believe that the popular thrust of biblical Christians(Pat Robertson...etc.) in trying to influence or bring the U.S. culture/government into a more Christian enshrouded embrace, may be Don Quixotic. As mentioned earlier, Christian influence in the lives, culture, and government of countries that do not embrace biblical values, isn't a formula for success.

Excellent points, Eightball.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The very author of Christianity, "Jesus" explicitly stated more than once, that being a follower of His wasn't a free pass at having the world tolerate you.

To the contrary, He(Jesus), said that the "world" would "hate" you if you became His follower. In other words, the internal spiritual change that occurs at conversion would separate a person from the "lost" spiritual condition of humanity that rejects or is not a part of God's family, via acceptance of Christ as one's Lord, and Saviour.

Christianity will never be tolerated in the league of religions as Islam, Hinduism, Bhuddism....are.......Yes there will be geo-political wars/conflicts that will center around cultural differences, and their belief systems will be advertised as the reason. These conflicts are just normal, out of control humanity attempting to find peace, purpose, and identity without a spiritual relationship with God.

Even the Clinton year's war in Serbia wasn't really a conflict between Christianity and Islam. Most that used the Christian moniker........i.e. Serbian Orthodox church.....rarely displayed the actions or lives that typified true biblical conversion.

I'm not singling-out the Serbian Orthodox in total, as I know there are bonifide believers within their ranks. It's just that most of these conflicts are cultural in nature, and have derived their roots from religious differences, but not spiritual differences, as revealed/explained by Jesus, and His apostles, in N.T. scripture.

True, converted Christians, will typify a radical change of nature in their lives in every aspect. No longer will worldly lusts/needs be high on their live's priority lists. Love for the unconverted, love for the gift of human life, love for their creator because of the gift of grace bestowed upon them, will typify the true Christian as they mature in their faith.

One of the most prolific N.T. authors, Paul, never wrote-off the Jews as being impossible to convert, or already saved via a different non-gentile intended gospel of God that didn't need Christ's involvement.

In fact, Paul mentioned how much his heart ached for his bretheren(fellow Jews) to come to Christ in conversion. He also explicity said that God's offering of salvation to the gentile was caused in part, via the hardness of the Jews to the gospel message via Christ. He actually said that in some ways, God's move to the gentiles could and would stimulate envy and jealousy by the Jews. It was hoped that this envy/jealousy would help move the Jew towards Christ, and ultimate conversion. The N.T. didn't write-off the Jew's conversion, but said that it would be miniscule in magnitude to the gentile conversion until the end times were at the threshold.

So folks, when you see, a mass move in Israel towards Christ, you are seeing God's provisions unfolding and world/earth history coming to a threshold.

Israel's move towards Christ in masse, I believe is still quite a ways in the future, but Israel's establishment as a nation in 1948, was biblical prophecy being validated.

I believe that the popular thrust of biblical Christians(Pat Robertson...etc.) in trying to influence or bring the U.S. culture/government into a more Christian enshrouded embrace, may be Don Quixotic. As mentioned earlier, Christian influence in the lives, culture, and government of countries that do not embrace biblical values, isn't a formula for success.

I'm as hopeful as any Christian, but ultimately, I have to look back to scripture to keep from becoming pulled into all kinds of hopes for this world. This world is very temporary if I'm to believe what Christ says. This world will go through much travail, as mankind flounders into every manmade religion that's possible to contrive. Some of these religions will give polite creedence to Jesus, and some will totally deny Him. Bottom line, Jesus cannot be allowed to be who He really is to unconverted mankind, as unconverted mankind would be forced to introspectively look at itself and have to accept their human fallibility and Christ's Lordship.

The great commission issued by Christ in Matthew's gospel, is not nullified by Christ's statement that "the world will not know or love you(His believers), as they didn't know or Love Me from the beginning".. The very life of Christians is and will continue to be, "salt and light" to this world. There will be both gentile and Jews that will step out of their lost, worldly lives, and will be called by this good news of Christ. The gentile time of conversion in masse has been ongoing since Pentacost, but the time of the Jews in masse is also coming.

There will be no distinction between gentile or Jew in God's new earth. God is going to be leveling the playing field. There will be no room for conspiracy theorys, as all things will become plain in the light of God's truth.

If leaders of nations become Christians, then there may be an influence upon that nation's peoples. In the case of the U.S., the biblical American church has been very active in supporting Christian politician in elections. Some of these candidates have been successful, and some have not. I don't think it is necessarily the way God plans to convert humanity, but at times it may be an avenue.

Most conversions will happen on a one-on-one relationship between fellow human beings. It will happen as Christians inject themselves into society, and live-out their lives in humble, gratitude, and love for their Creator and his created humanity. The unconverted are always observing the biblical Christian's life. Christ emphatically said that He would call humanity to him through his followers. We were likened as Honey, that attracts flies to it's sweetness. Some of humanity will reject the honey. Why? I don't know. Only God knows. All I know is that a lot of humanity will reject Christ, and a many will be the converted. Man's will is a mystery, and it's man's will that determines what he chooses and rejects. We weren't created as autmatons, but created as free thinking, free-acting, creatures. The converted are not "sheeples" but results of free-will decisions.

GWB is a biblical Christian, and is the Commander and Chief, yet his Christian life/values hasn't changed, or brought back this nation to embracing Christian values, or precipitated mass Christian conversion.

Being a Christian, is more than copying a life(GWB's) that we envy, it's a total personal change preciptitated by personal, internal, introspection of one's life that's confronted with God's truth/reality.

I don't care how Godly the life of our leaders are in this or any country. It will not cause en-masse conversions, unless we want to use the Roman empire's mass Christian embrace nearly 2,000 years ago as the example. In the Roman case, it was basically, the exceptance of Christianity as the governments new, recognized religion. That's ok, but the average Roman didn't become a biblical Christian because their leadership adopted Christianity. It's still a personal, one-on-one decision.
*
I've rambled too much.......signing out.
*

I think christ was just warning us. I don't think he meant we should just accept discrimination against ourselves or even assist it, or look the other way. He was just saying the road is rough.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

He is saying the journey is filled with peril, he didn't say "aim for a tree". Christians should still strive to be tolerated and accepted, though sometimes we may not be.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The saving covenant with christ is not a suicide pact.

 

[Eightball]

I think christ was just warning us. I don't think he meant we should just accept discrimination against ourselves or even assist it, or look the other way. He was just saying the road is rough.

Makes sense. I agree.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Makes sense. I agree.

Good. The desire to shut me up has become so intense people are saying crazed things. I could see the argument coming "Because I don't want noahide or islamic theocracy, that makes me TOO WORLDLY and not a good christian."

I hope anyone tempted to say that realizes that he/she/it is insane, and has had their mind warped by hatred of the truth and envy of my skill at relaying it.

 

[Eightball]

Good. The desire to shut me up has become so intense people are saying crazed things. I could see the argument coming "Because I don't want noahide or islamic theocracy, that makes me TOO WORLDLY and not a good christian."

I hope anyone tempted to say that realizes that he/she/it is insane, and has had their mind warped by hatred of the truth and envy of my skill at relaying it.

Just have to ask you a question.

Does Jack Chick , author of anti-Catholic tracts/cartoons, and Reverend Alexander Hislop, author of, "The Two Babylons",ring a bell with you?

Just curious. Doctrinally, they seem in my opinion to parallel much of what you express in your posts in the religion forum.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Just have to ask you a question.

Does Jack Chick and Alexander Hislop ring a bell with you?

Just curious. Doctrinally, they seem in my opinion to parallel much of what you express in your posts in the religion forum.

Never heard of them. What i post is standard, non new age infiltrated christianity. What aspects of what I've said is similar to what they say. And who are they?

 

[Eightball]

I did a little editing of my earlier post, but you had already answered it.
......
Hislop's name came up with the Noachide movement.
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