The Forgotten Part Of Normandy

[PoliticalChic]

Oh, I was being very civil. But your pretending this concept is anything but what it is, whatever.

Look, I am well aware that you are entirely a political animal, and actual military tactics and strategies mean little to you. And as somebody that was career military, it to be honest pissed me off when people on either side tried to force their political nonsense onto us in the military.

Far-Right, Far-Left, it is the same coprolite to me, just in a different suit.

I don't 'pretend' anything.


I simply back up everything I post.


Now you are being stupid:
There is no Far Right.....

I can use you to prove it.
The is no Far Right in this nation....but there certainly is a Far Left.

The thesis is based on the definitions involved:



To be "far," one's positions must be radical relative to that center.
American traditions, values, and history represent that center.


The premise here is that, if I can show that the values called 'Far Right' are actually at the center of American traditions, values, and history represent that center, well then, they cannot be correctly awarded the modifier "Far."


"Radical" is important to the discussion. It means "especially of change or action relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough" (see Google.)



It's what the radical Obama was getting at when he said “We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America.” — Barack Obama, October 30, 2008. “

Transforming from the positions that America was built on.....into the Far Left.







So far, I've given these examples of traditionally American positions...the 'center' against which to compare the positions.



Radical positions as opposed to traditional ones identify "Far" Left

“Singer Macy Gray Says American Flag Should Be Abolished” Singer Macy Gray Says American Flag Should Be Abolished | The Daily Wire​

“Transgender Athlete Chelsea Wolfe Says Goal Is To 'Burn a US Flag' at Olympic Podium”

Transgender Athlete Says Goal Is To 'Burn A US Flag' at Olympics

Wolfe, who identifies as a transgender female, spoke to Fox News on Monday to explain her deleted post from March and said, "Anyone who thinks that I don't care about the United States is sorely mistaken."

www.newsweek.com

1. ... traditional marriage, that involves one man and one woman, and compare that with homosexual marriage.. Which one is radical?

2. Another of those positions under regular discussion is 'prayer' in the public arena....Congress opens each year with prayer. Opposing prayer is radical....religiosity is traditional in America.



3. Is 'free speech' embraced by one side, and opposed by the other? You betcha! Obama's Supreme Court nominee says it would be be proper to suppress speech because it is offensive to society or to the government.



Starting to see a pattern?



4. While we were founded on the biblical idea that all men are created equal,



LBJ advanced a two-class nation based on skin color.
....this radical view was advanced: affirmative action. Hence, Democrats....the Far Left.

5. Here's one more radical position by the Left....fighting to elect a sexual pervert and admitted liar and disbarred lawyer to the White House: Bill Clinton
Relative to American traditions, values, and history ...championing a man of such low character is a radical position.
Hence, Far Left..



6. Franklin Roosevelt threw the United States Constitution under the bus, and used the public fisc for all sorts of endeavors not authorized in Article 1, section 8.



A radical and Progressive position.



He was the ultimate "Far Leftist."



7. Under Franklin Roosevlet the federal government was transformed from one of limited & enumerated powers only to the Frankensteinian monster it is today. ....the regulatory welfare state where the federal government regulates business and commerce, natural resources, human resources, ...
Under the Progressives, the federal government was no longer limited by the enumerated powers delegated in the Constitution; ...



Radical to the utmost....hence Far Left.



8. Under Roosevelt's NRA, most manufacturing industries were suddenly forced into government-mandated cartels. Codes that regulated prices and terms of sale briefly transformed much of the American economy into a fascist-style arrangement,

"... into a fascist-style arrangement,..."
"A New Jersey tailor named Jacob Maged was arrested and sent to jail for the “crime” of pressing a suit of clothes for 35 cents rather than the NRA-inspired “Tailor’s Code” of 40 cents."
No surprise here: FDR's New Deal was a copy of Mussolini's economic program.



Could anything short of setting up concentration camps for our citizens, be more radical???



Oh...wait....he did build concentration camps for innocent civilians....his own citizens.



9. How about The Far Left's Gender-Agenda., versus the Right's stand for tradition and reality: "Republicans Battle to Roll Back Washington's New Transgender Bathroom Rules"



Really....could there be a more pertinent example of the radical, insane Far Left's corruption of tradition and history???



Could there?



10. The corruption of the press by the Far Left: the JournoList Scandal: hundreds of Leftist journalists plotted to minimize negative publicity surrounding Obama’s radical ties. They plotted to smear the other side with lies. Peter Zenger....spinnning in his grave.

A clear affront to the honor bestowed on the press by the first amendment.

And don't forget this winner......men can menstruate and have babies and women can become men.









And several times, I've presented this challenge: If you have used the fallacy "Far Right," or never considered its usage, see if you can come up with any radical positions by conservatives, the right wing.







Still waiting.

 

[francoHFW]

Oh, I was being very civil. But your pretending this concept is anything but what it is, whatever.

Look, I am well aware that you are entirely a political animal, and actual military tactics and strategies mean little to you. And as somebody that was career military, it to be honest pissed me off when people on either side tried to force their political nonsense onto us in the military.

Far-Right, Far-Left, it is the same coprolite to me, just in a different suit.

It has always been a good idea to keep military men out of politics, they tend to be driven by right wing idiocy lol... Seriously thank you for your service....

 

[Mushroom]

The irony is that without British Ultra laying bare the German plans, the USSR would have never faired so well in any engagement from Stalingrad on.

Or Lend-Lease. Both the US and UK are largely the ones that kept the Soviets in the fight. Especially logistically, as one of the largest shipments form the US was exactly about that. Locomotives, train cars, and trucks.

Without that, the Soviets would likely not have lost, but it would have taken a lot longer to go on the offensive and it would have moved much slower. From deeper inside their territory than it was when they reversed the tide.

 

[Mushroom]

Radical positions as opposed to traditional ones identify "Far" Left

“Singer Macy Gray Says American Flag Should Be Abolished” Singer Macy Gray Says American Flag Should Be Abolished | The Daily Wire​

“Transgender Athlete Chelsea Wolfe Says Goal Is To 'Burn a US Flag' at Olympic Podium”

Transgender Athlete Says Goal Is To 'Burn A US Flag' at Olympics

Wolfe, who identifies as a transgender female, spoke to Fox News on Monday to explain her deleted post from March and said, "Anyone who thinks that I don't care about the United States is sorely mistaken."

www.newsweek.com

As I said, every time you show up in these threads, it is to spew around more of your political diatribes.

You can try to hide it all you want, I really do not care. You show up, then start in with political nonsense that has nothing to do with anything but to try and pound your particular type of nonsense. Meanwhile, some of us actually try to take your thread at least somewhat seriously, and discuss it on the merits of the topic alone.

Completely ignoring your political nonsense as we see it as political nonsense.

But have a nice day, because this is a great example of why most of us largely ignore you. You come in like a hyperactive rabbit on meth, and simply bounce all over the damned place. Is this a thread about WWII, or transgender athletes at the Olympics and their opinion about the US?

But please, tell us more about how that has a damned thing to do with WWII.

 

[Mushroom]

It has always been a good idea to keep military men out of politics

Ahh, got it. You are a bigot, who hates the military.

Enough said, now I know exactly how seriously to take any of your posts ever again. Especially when it comes to military topics.

And no, keep your thanks. To be honest, it comes off rather like "Some of my friends are Black, but..."

Gods, one of the things that both the far-right and far-left have in common is that they are extreme bigots. Yet try to deny that they ever are. You all are so patronizing on the fringes, of both sides.

 

[francoHFW]

And once again, this is almost the entirety of your argument? That I am "GOP"?

Wow, you really do have no actual argument at all, and are simply attacking over and over and accusing me of things with absolutely no reason.

Last time, what on earth makes you think I am "GOP"? In case you did not know, PC here is so far to the Right that she almost considers President Reagan a Communist. Yet, you agree with her in this madness, and constantly attack me as being a "Right Winger", with absolutely no evidence at all.

Not unusual, as you have no evidence to back up any of your claims. You are just a flaming troll, and to be honest I have been laughing at your nonsense for ages. I ask you to back up and support your claims, you insult me. I ask again, you spin in a circle. Then finally, you tell us what a military expert you are because you stayed in France for a few weeks.

This is what I find so damned hilarious about the political animals when they manage to stumble into either the military or history areas. They try to scream political nonsense, and think it actually means something. Both you and PC are on opposite sides of the political chart, yet you for some reason are agreeing, and attacking anybody that does not agree. And interestingly, several of us are regular posters in both the history and military areas. Many of which I often do not agree with, but we generally keep things civil and attack the points, not each other.

You two, you constantly attack the individuals. Because it seems that the only thing you can ever fall back on is that I am "GOP". Which I am not, but if that is your only argument to use against me, why not just bring up my race? After all, obviously I am just another "Ignorant Indian", so what would I know about such things?" Or how about the fact I wear glasses, so am so myopic I can not see your truths for what they are? Why not make those claims instead?

Because at least they would be accurate about me.

But at least this has been entertaining to a slight degree. Unlike the usual topic at this time of the year, of constant self-loathing because we nuked an innocent Japan that wanted to give peace a chance.

Oh, you're an "independant"? So at least you're embarrassed by your politics lol... once again you have no arguments militarily or strategically about what we're talking about you just go on and on with personal bs. that's why I know you're a GOP voting idiot in the end lol... Churchill might have been right and it might have saved the Balkans and Hungary from the Russians period of course it's all hypothetical. And saved many French lives and beautiful cities.....OUR ALLIES. Although the English and the Americans have always been bad allies by definition for continental powers. They don't have good armies until years after wars start. Just LOVE cutting them off and heading back to their fortress islands.......I love indians and ALL minorities. Unlike conservatives. If you actually vote democratic I apologize profusely for that.... Bombing Japan was fine and necessary comma none of what you say about my beliefs is true just total garbage propaganda that you listen to I believe. My father is a doctor from Buffalo joined the British Army in may of 1941 to fight Nazis but ended up at Imphal.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As I said, every time you show up in these threads, it is to spew around more of your political diatribes.

You can try to hide it all you want, I really do not care. You show up, then start in with political nonsense that has nothing to do with anything but to try and pound your particular type of nonsense. Meanwhile, some of us actually try to take your thread at least somewhat seriously, and discuss it on the merits of the topic alone.

Completely ignoring your political nonsense as we see it as political nonsense.

But have a nice day, because this is a great example of why most of us largely ignore you. You come in like a hyperactive rabbit on meth, and simply bounce all over the damned place. Is this a thread about WWII, or transgender athletes at the Olympics and their opinion about the US?

But please, tell us more about how that has a damned thing to do with WWII.

As I said, you are a dunce, one who doesn't understrand the world in which you are attempting to function.

I just schooled you on FDR and Stalin.

I just schooled you on there being no Far Right.


One more:

Antonio Gramsci, Italian Marxist theoretician and founding member and one-time leader of the Communist Party of Italy. Gramsci’s motto is that of liberals today: “that all life is "political."

“Everything is politics,” said the German author Thomas Mann. The author of Reflections of an Unpolitical Man was writing of a time when politics had failed and the world was consumed in the First World War. But he may have just as easily transported his critique to the present day. PJMedia



Stop being afraid to learn.

 

[francoHFW]

Ahh, got it. You are a bigot, who hates the military.

Enough said, now I know exactly how seriously to take any of your posts ever again. Especially when it comes to military topics.

And no, keep your thanks. To be honest, it comes off rather like "Some of my friends are Black, but..."

Gods, one of the things that both the far-right and far-left have in common is that they are extreme bigots. Yet try to deny that they ever are. You all are so patronizing on the fringes, of both sides.

I tried to join the navy in '76 as soon as that bad war was over.... You are totally 100% off on my beliefs, that's how I know you're a brainwashed functional GOP moron. A disgrace politically. Poor America.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As I said, every time you show up in these threads, it is to spew around more of your political diatribes.

You can try to hide it all you want, I really do not care. You show up, then start in with political nonsense that has nothing to do with anything but to try and pound your particular type of nonsense. Meanwhile, some of us actually try to take your thread at least somewhat seriously, and discuss it on the merits of the topic alone.

Completely ignoring your political nonsense as we see it as political nonsense.

But have a nice day, because this is a great example of why most of us largely ignore you. You come in like a hyperactive rabbit on meth, and simply bounce all over the damned place. Is this a thread about WWII, or transgender athletes at the Olympics and their opinion about the US?

But please, tell us more about how that has a damned thing to do with WWII.

"As I said, every time you show up in these threads,..."

Talk about being oblivious.....


....which of us "showed up" in the thread????

Must be quite a few rocks you must turn over in the search for your intellectual equivalent.

 

[francoHFW]

As I said, you are a dunce, one who doesn't understrand the world in which you are attempting to function.

I just schooled you on FDR and Stalin.

I just schooled you on there being no Far Right.


One more:

Antonio Gramsci, Italian Marxist theoretician and founding member and one-time leader of the Communist Party of Italy. Gramsci’s motto is that of liberals today: “that all life is "political."

“Everything is politics,” said the German author Thomas Mann. The author of Reflections of an Unpolitical Man was writing of a time when politics had failed and the world was consumed in the First World War. But he may have just as easily transported his critique to the present day. PJMedia



Stop being afraid to learn.

Sorry no conspiracy AGAIN> Just seeing reality of Huge russian effort.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sorry no conspiracy AGAIN> Just seeing reality of Huge russian effort.

OK...OK.....here's another lesson:

“On September 2, 1939, the day after the outbreak of war in Europe, Whittaker Chambers had told much of what he knew about Soviet espionage in the United States to Adolph Berle, Assistant Secretary of State and President’s Roosevelt’s advisor on internal security. Immediately afterwards, Berle drew up a memorandum for the President which listed Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White and the other leading communists for whom Chambers acted as courier. One was a leading presidential aide, Lauchlin Currie….Roosevelt, however, was not interested. He seems to have dismissed the whole idea of espionage rings within his administration as absurd.” ‘The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archives, the History of the KGB,” by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin.p.107


As Hitler marched into Poland, Whittaker Chambers arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss. Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to go f--- himself.
Arthur Herman, Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator, p. 60.

a. No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss. Almost a decade later, Chambers was called before the HUAC and named Hiss as a Soviet agent. Hiss sued Chambers, at which time Chambers presented “… four notes in Alger Hiss's handwriting, sixty-five typewritten copies of State Department documents and five strips of microfilm, some of which contained photographs of State Department documents. The press came to call these the"PumpkinPapers" Whittaker Chambers - Wikipedia)

 

[Mushroom]

once again you have no arguments militarily or strategically about what we're talking about you just go on and on

Did I not talk specifically about the logistics involved? The METT-TC?

I discussed the terrain, the adversaries and allies in the next countries, and other things like the equipment, and the actual speed of the real invasion.

You, you seem to think it was nothing to go across the Austrian Alps, and have no idea where the other countries are. Hence, the nonsense of going into Hungary that you proposed. Why? That makes absolutely no military sense, yet you went over invading Hungary over and over again. Even though it was in the opposite direction from Germany.

Once again, tell us how the Allies were going to go through the Italian-Austrian Alpines with a modern military force. I asked you that multiple times, and you never once answered. You instead spun off into coprolite about my politics.

Entirely avoiding my military relevant question.

No, the problem is that I am not political at all, and all of my arguments have been entirely military in nature. And that pisses you off, so you never answer one, and you then start to scream about my imaginary politics.

I have been studying things like this for over 40 years now. And while I readily admit that the Pacific War is my true specialty, I have not ignored the war in Europe either. I can discuss a great many things about WWII in depth, as well as more modern military operations.

But you, all you have is your hate of anybody you see as "Right Wing", and your crazy beliefs which are not backed up in the reality of the era.

Tell me, when you are rooting for your favorite sporting team, do you scream that their adversary are also "GOP"?

 

[Stryder50]

Or Lend-Lease. Both the US and UK are largely the ones that kept the Soviets in the fight. Especially logistically, as one of the largest shipments form the US was exactly about that. Locomotives, train cars, and trucks.

Without that, the Soviets would likely not have lost, but it would have taken a lot longer to go on the offensive and it would have moved much slower. From deeper inside their territory than it was when they reversed the tide.

Of the two, Lend-Lease was the greater assist, perhaps crucial and vital. IIRC, I mentioned this scores of posts earlier here, but for those needing details/links/reminders, let's start with this;

June 13, 2020

Lend-Lease: How the US Kept the Soviets Afloat in World War II​

By Michael Curtis

In view of present-day antagonism and misunderstandings between the U.S. and Russia, it is refreshing to recall the days when a somewhat more cordial relationship existed and help was given to the Soviet Union by the U.S. and Britain. Two objects are reminders of the relationship. One is a monument in Fairbanks, Alaska that honors the U.S. pilots who flew 8,000 planes to Alaska during World War II and the Soviet Union pilots who flew them on to Siberia. The other is the remains of a Douglas C-47 Skytrain transport aircraft, which is being commemorated in Siberia.

It is time for a more complete evaluation of the vital assistance provided by the U.S. during World War II. Lend-Lease started in March 1941, providing for military aid to any country whose defense was considered vital to the security of the U.S. Originally intended to lend arms and material to the U.K., then standing virtually alone, which agreed to pay funds back after the war and which handed its gold reserves and overseas investments, the program was extended by Congress on November 7 to the Soviet Union, which had been invaded by Nazi Operation Barbarossa on June 22, 1941.

By the Lend-Lease program the U.S. provided $50 billion ($600 billion in today's money) in arms and financial support: the U.K. received $31.4 billion and the Soviet Union $11.3 billion.
Various accounts, including a valuable one by Robert Coalson, have calculated the extent of Lend-Lease given to the Soviet Union. The provisions include more than 400,000 vehicles, 14,000 aircraft, 13,000 battle tanks, gasoline and explosives, and thousands of radio sets and motorcycles, as well as food, blankets, machine tools, factory equipment, and boots. The U.S. had provided 55% of the aluminum and 80% of the copper used by the Soviets.
...
Not only was the fate of this plane unknown, but little was said by Russian leaders of Lend-Lease. Soviet and Russian politicians, with few exceptions, downplayed or ignored , and still do, the extent of assistance given by the U.S. and the U.K. during World War II to the Soviet Union. The usual version was that the Lend-Lease shipments were not significant and did not play a decisive role in the "Great Patriotic" war. They were not considered as having saved the Soviet Union from defeat by Germany.

Three exceptions are interesting. One is the toast by Joseph Stalin at the Tehran Conference with FDR and Winston Churchill in November 1943. He told his fellow leaders to recognize "from the Russian point of view, what President Roosevelt and the U.S. have done for victory in this war. The U.S. is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease we would have lost the war."

A second mention is in the Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, who wrote, "If the U.S. had not helped us, we would not have won the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me."

A third appraisal comes from Marshal Georgy Zhukov, who in a reported private conversation in 1963 said, "It cannot be denied that the Americans sent us material without which we could not have formed our resources or continued the war."

A crucial part of the supplies to the Soviets were the Allied Arctic convoys and protection by squadron attacks on the heavy battleship, the heaviest ever built by a European country, the Tirpitz, in its harbor in Altafjord, which was a threat to the convoys. At first, responsibility for getting supplies to the Soviet Union rested with the Russians. But the Soviet Navy did not have enough ships to do this, and the convoys consisted mainly of British and American ships. These convoys experienced dramatic struggle for survival in the Arctic.
...

Lend-Lease: How the US Kept the Soviets Afloat in World War II

In view of present-day antagonism and misunderstandings between the U.S. and Russia, it is refreshing to recall the days when a somewhat more cordial relationship existed and help was given to the Soviet Union by the U.S. and Britain. Two ...

www.americanthinker.com

Perhaps most important and vital of all this was the food. From wheat grain to spam. Most of the USSR's food growing regions where occupied by the Axis when not being sites for raging battles changing hands back and forth. NO way could the USSR have feed itself during those four years and the biggest impact of Lend-Lease was keeping the Soviet military and people feed.

More to follow.

 

[francoHFW]

Did I not talk specifically about the logistics involved? The METT-TC?

I discussed the terrain, the adversaries and allies in the next countries, and other things like the equipment, and the actual speed of the real invasion.

You, you seem to think it was nothing to go across the Austrian Alps, and have no idea where the other countries are. Hence, the nonsense of going into Hungary that you proposed. Why? That makes absolutely no military sense, yet you went over invading Hungary over and over again. Even though it was in the opposite direction from Germany.

Once again, tell us how the Allies were going to go through the Italian-Austrian Alpines with a modern military force. I asked you that multiple times, and you never once answered. You instead spun off into coprolite about my politics.

Entirely avoiding my military relevant question.

No, the problem is that I am not political at all, and all of my arguments have been entirely military in nature. And that pisses you off, so you never answer one, and you then start to scream about my imaginary politics.

I have been studying things like this for over 40 years now. And while I readily admit that the Pacific War is my true specialty, I have not ignored the war in Europe either. I can discuss a great many things about WWII in depth, as well as more modern military operations.

But you, all you have is your hate of anybody you see as "Right Wing", and your crazy beliefs which are not backed up in the reality of the era.

Tell me, when you are rooting for your favorite sporting team, do you scream that their adversary are also "GOP"?

I discussed the terrain, the adversaries and allies in the next countries, and other things like the equipment, and the actual speed of the real invas



You, you seem to think it was nothing to go across the Austrian Alps, and have no idea where the other countries are. Hence, the nonsense of going into Hungary that you proposed. Why? That makes absolutely no military sense, yet you went over invading Hungary over and over again. Even though it was in the opposite direction from Germ



Once again, tell us how the Allies were going to go through the Italian-Austrian Alpines with a modern military force. I asked you that multiple times, and you never once answered. You instead spun off into coprolite about my polit



Entirely avoiding my military relevant quest



No, the problem is that I am not political at all, and all of my arguments have been entirely military in nature. And that pisses you off, so you never answer one, and you then start to scream about my imaginary polit



I have been studying things like this for over 40 years now. And while I readily admit that the Pacific War is my true specialty, I have not ignored the war in Europe either. I can discuss a great many things about WWII in depth, as well as more modern military operati



But you, all you have is your hate of anybody you see as "Right Wing", and your crazy beliefs which are not backed up in the reality of the



Tell me, when you are rooting for your favorite sporting team, do you scream that their adversary are also "G

So you don't vote? LOL. Yes, go AFL. the no fun league is a bunch of GOP arrogant ********?

So you don't vote? LOL. Yes, go AFL. The NFL are arrogant GOP swine lol. Fuque the Cowboys...America's team my butt. Corporate America T and A maybe. Go BILLS!! lol.

I said that I have spent several weeks in Normandy!! Several times period I have spent years living in France speak French fluently and you are a GOP idiot. I've been studying the war for 68 years.







You, you seem to think it was nothing to go across the Austrian Alps, and have no idea where the other countries are. Hence, the nonsense of going into Hungary that you proposed. Why? That makes absolutely no military sense, yet you went over invading Hungary over and over again. Even though it was in the opposite direction f







Once again, tell us how the Allies were going to go through the Italian-Austrian Alpines with a modern military force. I asked you that multiple times, and you never once answered. You instead spun off into coprolite about







Entirely avoiding my military releva







No, the problem is that I am not political at all, and all of my arguments have been entirely military in nature. And that pisses you off, so you never answer one, and you then start to scream about my imagina







I have been studying things like this for over 40 years now. And while I readily admit that the Pacific War is my true specialty, I have not ignored the war in Europe either. I can discuss a great many things about WWII in depth, as well as more modern military







But you, all you have is your hate of anybody you see as "Right Wing", and your crazy beliefs which are not backed up in the reality







Tell me, when you are rooting for your favorite sporting team, do you scream that their adversary are



So you don't vote? LOL. Yes, go AFL. the no fun league is a bunch of GOP arrogant ********



So you don't vote? LOL. Yes, go AFL. The NFL are arrogant GOP swine lol. Fuque the Cowboys...America's team my butt. Corporate America T and A maybe. Go BILLS!!



I said that I have spent several weeks in Normandy!! Several times period I have spent years living in France speak French fluently and you are a GOP idiot. I've been studying the war for 660 years period ******* lol.OP"? also "G of the operatiry politnt questmy politrom Germ

 

[francoHFW]

Of the two, Lend-Lease was the greater assist, perhaps crucial and vital. IIRC, I mentioned this scores of posts earlier here, but for those needing details/links/reminders, let's start with this;

June 13, 2020

Lend-Lease: How the US Kept the Soviets Afloat in World War II​

By Michael Curtis

In view of present-day antagonism and misunderstandings between the U.S. and Russia, it is refreshing to recall the days when a somewhat more cordial relationship existed and help was given to the Soviet Union by the U.S. and Britain. Two objects are reminders of the relationship. One is a monument in Fairbanks, Alaska that honors the U.S. pilots who flew 8,000 planes to Alaska during World War II and the Soviet Union pilots who flew them on to Siberia. The other is the remains of a Douglas C-47 Skytrain transport aircraft, which is being commemorated in Siberia.

It is time for a more complete evaluation of the vital assistance provided by the U.S. during World War II. Lend-Lease started in March 1941, providing for military aid to any country whose defense was considered vital to the security of the U.S. Originally intended to lend arms and material to the U.K., then standing virtually alone, which agreed to pay funds back after the war and which handed its gold reserves and overseas investments, the program was extended by Congress on November 7 to the Soviet Union, which had been invaded by Nazi Operation Barbarossa on June 22, 1941.

By the Lend-Lease program the U.S. provided $50 billion ($600 billion in today's money) in arms and financial support: the U.K. received $31.4 billion and the Soviet Union $11.3 billion.
Various accounts, including a valuable one by Robert Coalson, have calculated the extent of Lend-Lease given to the Soviet Union. The provisions include more than 400,000 vehicles, 14,000 aircraft, 13,000 battle tanks, gasoline and explosives, and thousands of radio sets and motorcycles, as well as food, blankets, machine tools, factory equipment, and boots. The U.S. had provided 55% of the aluminum and 80% of the copper used by the Soviets.
...
Not only was the fate of this plane unknown, but little was said by Russian leaders of Lend-Lease. Soviet and Russian politicians, with few exceptions, downplayed or ignored , and still do, the extent of assistance given by the U.S. and the U.K. during World War II to the Soviet Union. The usual version was that the Lend-Lease shipments were not significant and did not play a decisive role in the "Great Patriotic" war. They were not considered as having saved the Soviet Union from defeat by Germany.

Three exceptions are interesting. One is the toast by Joseph Stalin at the Tehran Conference with FDR and Winston Churchill in November 1943. He told his fellow leaders to recognize "from the Russian point of view, what President Roosevelt and the U.S. have done for victory in this war. The U.S. is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease we would have lost the war."

A second mention is in the Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, who wrote, "If the U.S. had not helped us, we would not have won the war. No one talks about this officially, and Stalin never, I think, left any traces of his opinion, but I can say that he expressed this view several times in conversations with me."

A third appraisal comes from Marshal Georgy Zhukov, who in a reported private conversation in 1963 said, "It cannot be denied that the Americans sent us material without which we could not have formed our resources or continued the war."

A crucial part of the supplies to the Soviets were the Allied Arctic convoys and protection by squadron attacks on the heavy battleship, the heaviest ever built by a European country, the Tirpitz, in its harbor in Altafjord, which was a threat to the convoys. At first, responsibility for getting supplies to the Soviet Union rested with the Russians. But the Soviet Navy did not have enough ships to do this, and the convoys consisted mainly of British and American ships. These convoys experienced dramatic struggle for survival in the Arctic.
...

Lend-Lease: How the US Kept the Soviets Afloat in World War II

In view of present-day antagonism and misunderstandings between the U.S. and Russia, it is refreshing to recall the days when a somewhat more cordial relationship existed and help was given to the Soviet Union by the U.S. and Britain. Two ...

www.americanthinker.com

Perhaps most important and vital of all this was the food. From wheat grain to spam. Most of the USSR's food growing regions where occupied by the Axis when not being sites for raging battles changing hands back and forth. NO way could the USSR have feed itself during those four years and the biggest impact of Lend-Lease was keeping the Soviet military and people feed.

More to follow.

MORE RW garbage lol.... Starting January 1942, the Russians were gonna win the war no matter what. So they would have had 35 million dead instead of 25 million dead....

 

[Mushroom]

Sorry no conspiracy AGAIN> Just seeing reality of Huge russian effort.

No, completely conspiracy.

How else do you explain the nonsense of accusing me and others of being both "Far Right GOP", and "Stalin Lovers" at the same time?

Are you even aware how nonsensical that is?

That is like the people who believe in Controlled Demolition linking arm in arm with those that believe in Radio Controlled Drones on 9/11. Does not matter that their beliefs are the exact opposite of each other, all Conspiracy Theorists must link arms in solidarity when faced with those evil "There was no conspiracy" types.

Conspiracy or not, both you and PC attack anybody using the exact same tactics and talking that is seen down in the Conspiracy Theory area.

 

[Mushroom]

I discussed the terrain

You dismissed the terrain, that is not "discussing" it.

Tell me once again then, how to get a modern military army though the Alpine Mountains.

Then you go on a long tirade yet again, about me, speculating how I vote, and a slew of other nonsense. More attacks, which are entirely wrong.

I give up with you, get yourself down to the Conspiracy Theory section. That is where you belong, not here where we try to discuss actual history.

Holy hell, is like talking with an anti-vaxxer trying to get you to understand reality.

 

[Stryder50]

MORE RW garbage lol.... Starting January 1942, the Russians were gonna win the war no matter what. So they would have had 35 million dead instead of 25 million dead....

You are so full of it.
I'd love to play against you in any conflict simulation as you'd clearly lose.

The best Russia could have hoped for without efforts and assist from the West Allies of USA and UK would be to survive the war in much reduced size and worse condition.

Second to Lend-Lease, the next most influential thing the USA and UK did to help Russia was the Strategic Bombing Campaign. On top of gradual attrition of German production and resources, it also compelled the majority of it's airforce that was in Russia to return home to defend against the bombers. It also caused aircraft production to shift increasingly towards making fighters rather than bombers.

Another under appreciated aspect is that of the large number of high/heavy caliber artillery deployed in anti-aircraft defense, when much of it could have shattered the Soviet tanks and armor formations if it could have been deployed to the Eastern Front.

Ultra and 'secrets' it revealed come in a somewhat distant third in these regards

Neither you nor Politic-Chic have mentioned these factors and appear to be unaware of and fail to understand their importance. Underscores Mushroom's comments about you two.

[Stalin's desires and demands, along with his agents "whisper" influence on FDR, or Churchill, are not of major consequence.]

 

[francoHFW]

You dismissed the terrain, that is not "discussing" it.

Tell me once again then, how to get a modern military army though the Alpine Mountains.

Then you go on a long tirade yet again, about me, speculating how I vote, and a slew of other nonsense. More attacks, which are entirely wrong.

I give up with you, get yourself down to the Conspiracy Theory section. That is where you belong, not here where we try to discuss actual history.

Holy hell, is like talking with an anti-vaxxer trying to get you to understand reality.

Sorry my computer had a breakdown, that's your quote. Of course the southern strategy was to go to Germany and also to stop the Russians from taking over the Balkans and Greece.

There are roads through passes into Austria, it is possible we could have done a bridge too far operation there....

So who have you voted for in the past four elections for president. I voted for one GOP in my life Frankie vitagliano here in my hometown, which by the way voted 72% trump and they are my friends, even if they believe all that crap. Politically they are a disgrace.

 

[francoHFW]

You are so full of it.
I'd love to play against you in any conflict simulation as you'd clearly lose.

The best Russia could have hoped for without efforts and assist from the West Allies of USA and UK would be to survive the war in much reduced size and worse condition.

Second to Lend-Lease, the next most influential thing the USA and UK did to help Russia was the Strategic Bombing Campaign. On top of gradual attrition of German production and resources, it also compelled the majority of it's airforce that was in Russia to return home to defend against the bombers. It also caused aircraft production to shift increasingly towards making fighters rather than bombers.

Another under appreciated aspect is that of the large number of high/heavy caliber artillery deployed in anti-aircraft defense, when much of it could have shattered the Soviet tanks and armor formations if it could have been deployed to the Eastern Front.

Ultra and 'secrets' it revealed come in a somewhat distant third in these regards

Neither you nor Politic-Chic have mentioned these factors and appear to be unaware of and fail to understand their importance. Underscores Mushroom's comments about you two.

[Stalin's desires and demands, along with his agents "whisper" influence on FDR, or Churchill, are not of major consequence.]

BS. so they would have had another 10 million dead. They didn't give a damn.... 80% of the Nazi war effort was always against Russia....