The Electoral College Needs to Go

[alang1216]

How would that change our 2 party system? We would still be at the mercy of big political machines.

Not quite.

If you have a system with runoffs, people can vote for a third party in the first round. In the second round, those voters would have to be appealed to in the runoff. It would be a way to get their issues to the fore.

Again, using the reform party as an example. In 1992, they got 17% of the vote. Their two main issues were opposition to NAFTA and deficit reduction. In 1996, they got 8% of the vote. In both cases, they polled a lot higher but at the end, voters figured they couldn't win any electors and threw in with one of the "two evils".

By 2000, the Reform Party was a bag full of matching funds that Pat Buchanan was able to grab up before the Transcendental Meditation people did.

The problem with third parties is that they are often seen as spoilers, rather than legitimate political movements. People STILL blame Perot for Clinton. People still blame Ralph Nader for Bush. Runoffs would eliminate that blame.

So we are basically agreed? You call it 'runoffs' I call it 'ranked-choice'. Same difference?

 

[ThisIsMe]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

 

[alang1216]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

I guess you haven't read the Constitution, it says little about how the Electors are chosen. That honor goes to the States.

 

[Lesh]

Because it's the United States of America not the USSR dipshit.

WTF does that even mean in relation to the subject at hand.

Jesus. Save the pablum

 

[Crepitus]

By JoeB131

The 2020 Election has proven one thing, that it is past time for America go get rid of the 18th century anachronism of the Electoral College.

The reasons that the electoral college is detrimental can be identified pretty easily.

• The presidents it chooses over the will of the people always turn out to be bad for the country. Not only the modern examples of George W. Bush (crashing the economy, getting us into a war based on lies), and Trump (the list is too long of his failings) but the earlier ones like Rutherford B. Hayes, whose administration reversed victory in the Civil War, or John Q. Adams, who corrupted congress to win. They are almost always a mistake the voters needed to correct the next election.
• It creates a false sense of mandate. Even when the people are clear in their choice, a 60/40 win like Reagan in 1984 or Nixon in 1972 appear to have a mandate with a mostly single color map when in fact there were plenty who didn’t support them.
• It makes it impossible for third parties to gain any traction. Every year, we hear about how we are “Stuck with the lesser of two evils”. American history is full of third parties that challenged the duopoly of the Democrats and Republicans, but none of them really last beyond an election cycle or two. Why? Because at the end of the day, the best they could hope for is to throw the election into Congress. Case in point, the Reform Party. Ross Perot was a bit eccentric, but he brought issues to the fore that other parties didn’t. Yet by 2000, the Reform party was done.
• At some point, it will make it impossible for the GOP to win. This is something that the GOP should consider. Texas came closer to turning blue this time than it ever has, and demographic changes will make that inevitable. Once that happens, it will be nearly impossible for the GOP to get an electoral majority, even if they win the popular vote.
• It depresses voter participation. If you didn’t live in one of the ten “Swing states”, there was really not much reason for you to come out and vote, was there? Even though 2020 was a record turnout, 80 million Americans, or about 34% of the eligible electorate, did not vote. Why should they, when they were already painting their state red or blue before a single vote was counted.
• It causes candidates to pander to the interests of small groups over the good of the country. The Cuban American community in Florida is still bitter about a revolution that happened 60 years ago, but it still factors into our politics, keeping us from normalizing relations with Cuba. Meanwhile, in Iowa, we are still spending money to subsidize ethanol nobody really wants to put in their cars. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
• It’s kind of racist. The fact that small homogenous rural states have outsized influence over diverse urban states in this system is a real problem in a country that has historically oppressed minorities. The fact is that it has contributed to the racial divide in this country, where one party has effectively become a white identity party, while the other had tied its fortunes to minority turnout.
• It is subject to a lot of potential mischief after the votes are tallied. The 2020 election itself was not in doubt. Biden won by 7 million votes. Yet we have had endless arguments about some 45,000 votes in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. State Legislatures, federal and state courts, faithless electors and congress have all been called upon to change the results, calling the whole system into question.

There is a very simple solution to the problems above. Adopt a system like the French have. You have a presidential election, where if the winner gets 50%+1, he wins, but if no one clears 50%, there would be a runoff. This will allow fuller participation, allow third parties greater exposure, and at the end, we will have a president with a clear mandate for change.

The Electoral college prevents some of the cheating such as california or new york manufacturing millions of fake ballots and stealing elections which I suspect is why you want it gone so much.

View attachment 431506

 

[Mac-7]

Millions of Californians voted for the cheeto...yet he threatens to cut off funding for California because they are not giving him electoral votes.

Libs cut off funding to states that do not comply with their mandates

youjut dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot

 

[Rigby5]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

I guess you haven't read the Constitution, it says little about how the Electors are chosen. That honor goes to the States.

You will also notice there is nothing in the constitution authorizing political parties at all, so the primaries really are not legal.
We really should NOT allow the 2 party system, where these private parties force a winner take all approach.
It is primaries that double the expense and make independents more difficult to have a chance.
If we instead went to a single election without primaries, and then ranked our voting order, you could get all parties represented much better, and avoid costly run offs.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Because it's the United States of America not the USSR dipshit.

WTF does that even mean in relation to the subject at hand.

Jesus. Save the pablum

That it needs explained to you speaks volumes.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

By JoeB131

The 2020 Election has proven one thing, that it is past time for America go get rid of the 18th century anachronism of the Electoral College.

The reasons that the electoral college is detrimental can be identified pretty easily.

• The presidents it chooses over the will of the people always turn out to be bad for the country. Not only the modern examples of George W. Bush (crashing the economy, getting us into a war based on lies), and Trump (the list is too long of his failings) but the earlier ones like Rutherford B. Hayes, whose administration reversed victory in the Civil War, or John Q. Adams, who corrupted congress to win. They are almost always a mistake the voters needed to correct the next election.
• It creates a false sense of mandate. Even when the people are clear in their choice, a 60/40 win like Reagan in 1984 or Nixon in 1972 appear to have a mandate with a mostly single color map when in fact there were plenty who didn’t support them.
• It makes it impossible for third parties to gain any traction. Every year, we hear about how we are “Stuck with the lesser of two evils”. American history is full of third parties that challenged the duopoly of the Democrats and Republicans, but none of them really last beyond an election cycle or two. Why? Because at the end of the day, the best they could hope for is to throw the election into Congress. Case in point, the Reform Party. Ross Perot was a bit eccentric, but he brought issues to the fore that other parties didn’t. Yet by 2000, the Reform party was done.
• At some point, it will make it impossible for the GOP to win. This is something that the GOP should consider. Texas came closer to turning blue this time than it ever has, and demographic changes will make that inevitable. Once that happens, it will be nearly impossible for the GOP to get an electoral majority, even if they win the popular vote.
• It depresses voter participation. If you didn’t live in one of the ten “Swing states”, there was really not much reason for you to come out and vote, was there? Even though 2020 was a record turnout, 80 million Americans, or about 34% of the eligible electorate, did not vote. Why should they, when they were already painting their state red or blue before a single vote was counted.
• It causes candidates to pander to the interests of small groups over the good of the country. The Cuban American community in Florida is still bitter about a revolution that happened 60 years ago, but it still factors into our politics, keeping us from normalizing relations with Cuba. Meanwhile, in Iowa, we are still spending money to subsidize ethanol nobody really wants to put in their cars. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
• It’s kind of racist. The fact that small homogenous rural states have outsized influence over diverse urban states in this system is a real problem in a country that has historically oppressed minorities. The fact is that it has contributed to the racial divide in this country, where one party has effectively become a white identity party, while the other had tied its fortunes to minority turnout.
• It is subject to a lot of potential mischief after the votes are tallied. The 2020 election itself was not in doubt. Biden won by 7 million votes. Yet we have had endless arguments about some 45,000 votes in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. State Legislatures, federal and state courts, faithless electors and congress have all been called upon to change the results, calling the whole system into question.

There is a very simple solution to the problems above. Adopt a system like the French have. You have a presidential election, where if the winner gets 50%+1, he wins, but if no one clears 50%, there would be a runoff. This will allow fuller participation, allow third parties greater exposure, and at the end, we will have a president with a clear mandate for change.

Not this shit again......

 

[Blues Man]

All this gnashing of teeth when the solution is easy. Nominate someone the people can support.

We don't do that anymore.

We have been forced to pick from the worst of the worst

Absolutely. Hillary, Trump, Biden..........if we can't do better than this we deserve to fall apart.

We obviously can't do better.

The reason we have ignorant selfish politicians is because we have ignorant selfish voters

In part. Presidents are suppose to lead though.

We get the politicians we deserve.

And in general the last person that we should want to lead is the person who seeks to lead.

The very best leaders did not seek power

 

[Blues Man]

Personally I think there should be some protection for the smaller states.

I don't think 4 or 5 of the most populous states should be allowed to have that kind of sway over the presidency.

And if the electoral college votes were actually cast to reflect the popular votes in each state then that would at least align the electoral and the popular votes.

Why should a minority of people control this country. Someone’s vote in Montana should not be worth 700 of mine

Why should small states have to bend over for larger states?

Why should large states have to bend over for small states?

They don't the EC is meant to level the playing field and if the EC vote was aligned with the popular vote of each state we then would have it work the way it is supposed to.

 

[366h34d]

Unless you let all states get out of the union and come back in the union if they like the new rule, EC is here to stay. Even Biden understands that

 

[EvilCat Breath]

How about the electoral college stays and the democratic party goes.

 

[candycorn]

Millions of Californians voted for the cheeto...yet he threatens to cut off funding for California because they are not giving him electoral votes.

Libs cut off funding to states that do not comply with their mandates

youjut dont like it when the shoe is on the other foot

An example?

 

[candycorn]

How about the electoral college stays and the democratic party goes.

306-232. scoreboard.

 

[ColonelAngus]

The Dims got rid of the electoral college when they cheated.

Biden won, why does the system need to change?

 

[pknopp]

All this gnashing of teeth when the solution is easy. Nominate someone the people can support.

We don't do that anymore.

We have been forced to pick from the worst of the worst

Absolutely. Hillary, Trump, Biden..........if we can't do better than this we deserve to fall apart.

We obviously can't do better.

The reason we have ignorant selfish politicians is because we have ignorant selfish voters

In part. Presidents are suppose to lead though.

We get the politicians we deserve.

And in general the last person that we should want to lead is the person who seeks to lead.

The very best leaders did not seek power

So we go without a government. OK.

 

[Mac-7]

An example?

The 55mph speed limit under jimmy carter

 

[Canon Shooter]

The Electoral College will remain as long as their are liberal bastions such as New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles. Getting rid of the EC would allow cities (and their states) to dictate what does and does not happen in places such as Wyoming or Kansas, and that simply cannot be allowed...

 

[Sunsettommy]

I'd propose a modified EC. No more winner-take-all, you get state EC votes based how well you did in the popular state vote. This would allow many parties to win EC votes in each state. If no candidates the majority of EC votes for the country they could negotiate with the losers to build a coalition, similar to parliamentary systems.

Another option is ranked-choice voting. You get a slate of maybe 10 candidates from 10 different parties and the winner best reflects the majority inclination.

Those seem like really convoluted methods when a simple one person, one vote system would be so much better.

That system already exist, it is done in the individual states.

You clearly don't understand the beauty of the existing EC system at all, sure it can be modified to something like the one Alang1216 suggests:

I'd propose a modified EC. No more winner-take-all, you get state EC votes based how well you did in the popular state vote. This would allow many parties to win EC votes in each state. If no candidates the majority of EC votes for the country they could negotiate with the losers to build a coalition, similar to parliamentary systems.

The EC system is the difference between a Democracy (You want) which would allow the majorly (whites) do what they please at the expense of the minority, and a Republic that doesn't allow the majority run over minorities.