The Electoral College Needs to Go

[Sunsettommy]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

I guess you haven't read the Constitution, it says little about how the Electors are chosen. That honor goes to the States.

You will also notice there is nothing in the constitution authorizing political parties at all, so the primaries really are not legal.
We really should NOT allow the 2 party system, where these private parties force a winner take all approach.
It is primaries that double the expense and make independents more difficult to have a chance.
If we instead went to a single election without primaries, and then ranked our voting order, you could get all parties represented much better, and avoid costly run offs.

The two party system have long ago election passed laws making it much harder for secondary parties gain much traction. It is why they rarely matter much to a national election.

 

[justinacolmena]

By JoeB131

The 2020 Election has proven one thing, that it is past time for America go get rid of the 18th century anachronism of the Electoral College.

The reasons that the electoral college is detrimental can be identified pretty easily.

• The presidents it chooses over the will of the people always turn out to be bad for the country. Not only the modern examples of George W. Bush (crashing the economy, getting us into a war based on lies), and Trump (the list is too long of his failings) but the earlier ones like Rutherford B. Hayes, whose administration reversed victory in the Civil War, or John Q. Adams, who corrupted congress to win. They are almost always a mistake the voters needed to correct the next election.
• It creates a false sense of mandate. Even when the people are clear in their choice, a 60/40 win like Reagan in 1984 or Nixon in 1972 appear to have a mandate with a mostly single color map when in fact there were plenty who didn’t support them.
• It makes it impossible for third parties to gain any traction. Every year, we hear about how we are “Stuck with the lesser of two evils”. American history is full of third parties that challenged the duopoly of the Democrats and Republicans, but none of them really last beyond an election cycle or two. Why? Because at the end of the day, the best they could hope for is to throw the election into Congress. Case in point, the Reform Party. Ross Perot was a bit eccentric, but he brought issues to the fore that other parties didn’t. Yet by 2000, the Reform party was done.
• At some point, it will make it impossible for the GOP to win. This is something that the GOP should consider. Texas came closer to turning blue this time than it ever has, and demographic changes will make that inevitable. Once that happens, it will be nearly impossible for the GOP to get an electoral majority, even if they win the popular vote.
• It depresses voter participation. If you didn’t live in one of the ten “Swing states”, there was really not much reason for you to come out and vote, was there? Even though 2020 was a record turnout, 80 million Americans, or about 34% of the eligible electorate, did not vote. Why should they, when they were already painting their state red or blue before a single vote was counted.
• It causes candidates to pander to the interests of small groups over the good of the country. The Cuban American community in Florida is still bitter about a revolution that happened 60 years ago, but it still factors into our politics, keeping us from normalizing relations with Cuba. Meanwhile, in Iowa, we are still spending money to subsidize ethanol nobody really wants to put in their cars. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
• It’s kind of racist. The fact that small homogenous rural states have outsized influence over diverse urban states in this system is a real problem in a country that has historically oppressed minorities. The fact is that it has contributed to the racial divide in this country, where one party has effectively become a white identity party, while the other had tied its fortunes to minority turnout.
• It is subject to a lot of potential mischief after the votes are tallied. The 2020 election itself was not in doubt. Biden won by 7 million votes. Yet we have had endless arguments about some 45,000 votes in Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. State Legislatures, federal and state courts, faithless electors and congress have all been called upon to change the results, calling the whole system into question.

There is a very simple solution to the problems above. Adopt a system like the French have. You have a presidential election, where if the winner gets 50%+1, he wins, but if no one clears 50%, there would be a runoff. This will allow fuller participation, allow third parties greater exposure, and at the end, we will have a president with a clear mandate for change.

These are all Dem party platform talking points for the mainstream media to cover up a hacked election.

The Electoral College will remain as long as their are liberal bastions such as New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles. Getting rid of the EC would allow cities (and their states) to dictate what does and does not happen in places such as Wyoming or Kansas, and that simply cannot be allowed...

And that's how the Dems in control of City Hall are railroading the elections in favor of Democrat canditates only.

So we are basically agreed? You call it 'runoffs' I call it 'ranked-choice'. Same difference?

So this is how the Dems have been rigging the elections!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

“The Electoral College Needs to Go”

It does.

The EC is an anachronism, fundamentally anti-democratic, and functions in a manner not consistent with the original intent of the Framers.

But it’s not going to happen.

Congressional Republicans and Republican-controlled states would never ratify such an amendment.

Republicans see the EC as instrumental in maintaining their minority rule in conjunction with their control of the Supreme Court.

 

[Dana7360]

No state shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. It's in the Constitution, so of course you don't take it seriously.

Has nothing to do with getting rid of the electoral college... so I don't.

Dismissed.

Seriously. That person is stupid.

The electoral collage only applies to the presidential election.

No other political office in America is elected by the electoral college.

 

[Blues Man]

All this gnashing of teeth when the solution is easy. Nominate someone the people can support.

We don't do that anymore.

We have been forced to pick from the worst of the worst

Absolutely. Hillary, Trump, Biden..........if we can't do better than this we deserve to fall apart.

We obviously can't do better.

The reason we have ignorant selfish politicians is because we have ignorant selfish voters

In part. Presidents are suppose to lead though.

We get the politicians we deserve.

And in general the last person that we should want to lead is the person who seeks to lead.

The very best leaders did not seek power

So we go without a government. OK.

no we become better people so we can seek out better leaders.

 

[Lesh]

The Dims got rid of the electoral college when they cheated.

Biden won, why does the system need to change?

And here we have the Dead Enders.

It's over rubes

DENIED

 

[blackhawk]

If New New York and California were rock solid red states instead of blue ones how many liberals would still want to do away with the EC and go to the popular vote? I suspect few if any would because then Republicans would have the same huge advantage in Presidential elections Democrats would now and in turn in they would be able to get the judges they wanted in the courts which would eventually lead to one party rule which over time leads to a violent uprising and civil war.Those who came up with the EC saw the danger of letting just a few states decide the direction for the entire country for those who want to elminate it I suggest you remember the quote of Oscar Wilde. There are only two tragedies in life one is not getting what one wants and the other is getting it.

 

[alang1216]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

I guess you haven't read the Constitution, it says little about how the Electors are chosen. That honor goes to the States.

You will also notice there is nothing in the constitution authorizing political parties at all, so the primaries really are not legal.
We really should NOT allow the 2 party system, where these private parties force a winner take all approach.
It is primaries that double the expense and make independents more difficult to have a chance.
If we instead went to a single election without primaries, and then ranked our voting order, you could get all parties represented much better, and avoid costly run offs.

I don't agree that parties are illegal just because they are not mentioned in the Constitution. The internet isn't mentioned either.

I do agree that ranked-choice voting be an improvement especially since extremists on both sides would suffer.

 

[alang1216]

So we are basically agreed? You call it 'runoffs' I call it 'ranked-choice'. Same difference?

So this is how the Dems have been rigging the elections!

Do you have any idea what you're talking about cause I sure don't.

 

[alang1216]

The EC system is the difference between a Democracy (You want) which would allow the majorly (whites) do what they please at the expense of the minority, and a Republic that doesn't allow the majority run over minorities.

We've been a Republic since day one and Whites have never had a problem doing what they please at the expense of a minority.

 

[Sunsettommy]

The EC system is the difference between a Democracy (You want) which would allow the majorly (whites) do what they please at the expense of the minority, and a Republic that doesn't allow the majority run over minorities.

We've been a Republic since day one and Whites have never had a problem doing what they please at the expense of a minority.

That is true, but then white had a dominant majority from day one, the leaders and founding fathers were all white. They still banned slave trade in 1808, ban slavery by law in 1869, grant voting rights and citizenship by 1870, all done by dominant white majorities. They didn't have to that at all, but it was the right thing to do and that done by Republicans.......

I should have stated it differently, since I was referring to the ideals of the Republic that was supposed to include minority views as being part of the America way, since Thomas Jefferson wrote and was accepted by many as being valid that all men were created equal, unfortunately individuals never have truly embraced it, including Thomas Jefferson himself, as he kept slaves for many years, a blatant contradiction to his writing.

The Founding fathers tried to reduce the majority behavior with government framed Republic style roadblocks which largely succeeded, but it took a while for it to set in place. A rising boat is supposed to be for everyone, it is how America become stronger and better.

A Democracy of direct vote method WILL hurt the minorities a lot easier, when you have enough whites getting attacked by black people in the press or in person, who do you think will lose the most in a future election?

 

[alang1216]

The EC system is the difference between a Democracy (You want) which would allow the majorly (whites) do what they please at the expense of the minority, and a Republic that doesn't allow the majority run over minorities.

We've been a Republic since day one and Whites have never had a problem doing what they please at the expense of a minority.

That is true, but then white had a dominant majority from day one, the leaders and founding fathers were all white. They still banned slave trade in 1808, ban slavery by law in 1869, grant voting rights and citizenship by 1870, all done by dominant white majorities. They didn't have to that at all, but it was the right thing to do and that done by Republicans.......

I should have stated it differently, since I was referring to the ideals of the Republic that was supposed to include minority views as being part of the America way, since Thomas Jefferson wrote and was accepted by many as being valid that all men were created equal, unfortunately individuals never have truly embraced it, including Thomas Jefferson himself, as he kept slaves for many years, a blatant contradiction to his writing.

The Founding fathers tried to reduce the majority behavior with government framed Republic style roadblocks which largely succeeded, but it took a while for it to set in place. A rising boat is supposed to be for everyone, it is how America become stronger and better.

A Democracy of direct vote method WILL hurt the minorities a lot easier, when you have enough whites getting attacked by black people in the press or in person, who do you think will lose the most in a future election?

The reality of our history is that being a Republic was never meant to protect the rights of the minority, it was intended to balance the power of large and small States. When it was written the vast majority of Americans lived in rural areas so, besides population size differences there were only minor differences between the states. That is what the Republic was meant to even out.

Over the last 250 years, agriculture has become a minor part of America so the old Republic structure gives rural states power way out of proportion to their population or contribution. Such imbalance is not sustainable and as the old saying goes, the reed that does not bend will break. The old cry of 'No Taxation Without Representation' may be heard again in States like California.

 

[Indeependent]

If you don't know the candidate's platform you can't vote.

 

[ThisIsMe]

How about we go back to choosing the president and vp the way the constitution says to?

I guess you haven't read the Constitution, it says little about how the Electors are chosen. That honor goes to the States.

No, actually it says exactly how the electors are chosen. It also says nothing about the people voting for president. It does say that legislature chooses the electors, and those electors vote for 2 people,.the one with the most votes becomes president, the one with the next highest becomes vp.

 

[joeldr2x]

The Electoral College ain't going anywhere. A unanimous vote of the states to eliminate it ain't gonna happen.

Your absolutely correct,that's why the majority has to raise up and demand it of our government. If we remain compliant sheep,the swamp in Washington D.C. will continue to flourish. Update or rewrite the constitution. Not only does the electoral college have to go but all national politicians need strict term limits including judges and no lifetime appointments. I 'd go one step further and get rid of states and replace them with regions, which means we need a new constitution which truly enshrines liberty and justice for all. A secular country which separates religion from government but also allows religous freedom for all.

 

[BluesLegend]

The Electoral College Needs to Go

Go ahead muster the votes to amend the US Constitution. Oh wait you don't have the votes well sucks to be you.

 

[BrokeLoser]

The Electoral College ain't going anywhere. A unanimous vote of the states to eliminate it ain't gonna happen.

Your absolutely correct,that's why the majority has to raise up and demand it of our government. If we remain compliant sheep,the swamp in Washington D.C. will continue to flourish. Update or rewrite the constitution. Not only does the electoral college have to go but all national politicians need strict term limits including judges and no lifetime appointments. I 'd go one step further and get rid of states and replace them with regions, which means we need a new constitution which truly enshrines liberty and justice for all. A secular country which separates religion from government but also allows religous freedom for all.

You sound pretty smart....What do you propose to take the place of the EC system?

 

[JoeB131]

What you are failing to consider is that changing the rules will change the number of votes cast. A lot of people in Patriotic states like West Virginia and Mississippi don't bother going to the polls nowadays because they know how their state is going. Expect turnout to triple or better in many locations.

But the same could be said about Civilized states like Illinois and New York because they know how their state is going.

heck, when I voted, we knew Biden was going to take Illinois, Durbin was running against a non-entity for Senate and his fifth term, and the GOP didn't even bother to run an opponent for my Congressman, a guy whose name I couldn't pronounce on a bet.

 

[JoeB131]

This was a pretty good argument up until the partisan jabs at GOP outcomes, the ubiquitous racist card, and the bullshit about “mischief” occurring on the backend. You people just got done yelling and screaming that this was the “fairest” election ever and there were no counts of fraud (mischief). Now, you are “concerned” about fraud because you don’t like the EC???

Naw, dude, I'm concerned about mischief because after the people clearly made their choice known, they shouldn't be subject to judges, electors, legislators or congressmen making mischief of gaming the system.

Yes, when you give White Votes more weight than the votes of people of color, that's racist. Sorry.

 

[JoeB131]

The darkies are turning into Republicans, since liberals are turning away from them.

No, actually, they aren't. "Look, look, Trump got 10% of the black vote, maybe!" isn't anything to brag about


Trump's numbers with minorities will end up being worse than Bush's in 2004.