The Disintegration of Liberal Democracy

[Jarod the Original]

Then posters here shouldn't be calling him a socialist.

He is not one or the other.

 

[Jarod the Original]

This does not address my question.

The US is a very limited democracy, by intent.

I would not say VERY, It used to be before the Constitution was Changed. Now days our representatives are directly elected by all of the people over 18. You could say the Electoral College is a limit on Direct Democracy, and the Judiciary is designed to be less affected by the popular vote but that seems to me to be the only real limits we have.

I guess today with the internet, we could all vote on all issues, majority rules. The President would not be needed except to carry out the chosen policies. I think that would be to much Democracy.

 

[Jarod the Original]

I would restrict voting to only those who don’t register as democrat.

Fascism

 

[Jarod the Original]

One easy reason. You guys want 100% socialism where the government controls everything when only a small few things of what Trump does could be argued to be socialism. However, it's kind of funny that you claim Trump is the king of capitalism and has been using it to make himself rich - but he's a socialist. Talk about hypocrisy.

Nobody wants 100% socialism. You are incorrectly promoting an image that "the other side" are extremists, that is a tactic of the Fascist type of governments.

 

[Jarod the Original]

One easy reason. You guys want 100% socialism where the government controls everything when only a small few things of what Trump does could be argued to be socialism. However, it's kind of funny that you claim Trump is the king of capitalism and has been using it to make himself rich - but he's a socialist. Talk about hypocrisy.

Using your elected power to make yourself rich is not Capitalism, in fact it is a key component of Fascism.

 

[Jarod the Original]

That’s the rub. You theoretically have the right to vote away your right to vote.
Voting age needs to be raised to 25.

Limiting the right to vote to people who are ideologically closer to your own belief is a component of Fascism.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The reports of the death of Liberal Democracy is an exaggeration!

You might have something there if you supported it instead of throwing in your lot with authoritarian leftists.

 

[Jarod the Original]

What I'd actually like to see is only allowing citizens 18 or over to vote (checking their ID's) who actually pay income taxes to that particular locality. So, if you want to vote in federal elections to have a say in the federal government and how it's taxes are spent, then you actually have to be paying federal income taxes to the federal government. Same for state and local governments. If you're not supporting those governments then you should have no say in those governments.

Another fascist idea.

Fascist is so far winning the day for what comes next here.

 

[Jarod the Original]

The fact that you guys believe you will do well in the midterms and in 2028 undermines your credibility when you claim Trump has taken democracy away. In fact, it proves you are lying when even you expect to do well in our future elections.

I do not believe he has taken Democracy away, I do not think one President could do that in the UNITED STATES, I do believe he has tried to erode as much of Democracy as he can without being kicked out of office.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, you say that Trump is using the system to make himself rich. Isn't that a prime example of capitalism? 90% of what Trump does is not socialist. The other 10% could be argued to be socialist. What you guys want is 100% socialism, so I'll take Trump's 10% socialism over your 100% socialism any day.

Weeks ago I argued who cares if instead of Trump adding $13 trillion to the debt he adds $14? What does it matter right? The new POTUS' will get their cut win or lose just like CEO's do.

Don can take the bribe and start the war but how it turns out who knows right? And Don's teflon. Nothing seems to affect him. We might all lose but he wins. I mean look at that interview where he told us all that Iran gets to keep nuclear materials, ballistic missles, control of the straights AND $300 Billion dollars. The same guy who said Obama would do something this foolish. The same guy who said $1.7 billion was a lot. Just gave Iran $300 Billion. But he always has a spin. Wait for it??? But Iran has to buy our corn, wheat and soy beans with that money. LOL. Sure don. Whatever you say. Sure.

This is why we say your Unregulated Free Market Capitalism SCHTick is something you are very selective about. Socialism for the rich is good. For the masses, no good. Because that would cost the rich.

 

[Billiejeens]

What about conservatism? It's not an ideology?

Maybe you just lump that in with fascism.

A classic liberal is today's Conservative.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I do not believe he has taken Democracy away, I do not think one President could do that in the UNITED STATES, I do believe he has tried to erode as much of Democracy as he can without being kicked out of office.

Democracy in the US - that is, at the national level - exists only so far as the citizenry popularly elects someone from their congressional district to the House and someone from their state to the Senate.
What has Trump done to erode this?

 

[sealybobo]

Another fascist idea.

Fascist is so far winning the day for what comes next here.

Our Federal Government, throughout the decades, have all had a progressive tax. The rich pay more and the poor don't pay taxes. It works.

Just like when Trump said our trade agreements weren't fair and he waged a trade war. Screwed us all, China bent him over and smacked his ass, and proved why no previous president took on China.

Or Iran. Trump shows us why no past president had the balls to bomb Iran like this. Bibi talked you into this dummy.

Anyways, we know the progressive tax works. Hell, it actually ISN'T working because we've given the rich and corporations too many tax breaks. All while Trump needs to be DOGED by Elon ASAP.

So this is just another thing Republicans haven't thought through. They want to impose taxes on the people who can barely afford to live. THIS is their solution. Amazing. And they don't think these people will insist on more money???

Republicans never think things though. That's why they should never run the government.

Look at Bush. Either he's an idiot or he lied us into a second war on purpose when he wasn't even winning the first one.

 

[Jarod the Original]

Democracy in the US - that is, at the national level - exists only so far as the citizenry popularly elects someone from their congressional district to the House and someone from their state to the Senate.
What has Trump done to erode this?

He is trying to restrict the ability to vote, he has threatened groups of people, he has threatened to send the national guard out to "monitor polling areas". (That is a States rights issue).

He has denigrated and tried to delegitimize qualified candidates. He has bullied elected officials out of office. He has promoted jerrymandering trying to limit the power of certain people's vote. He has tried to undermine the confidence in the electoral system when he did not like the results.

 

[sealybobo]

Democracy in the US - that is, at the national level - exists only so far as the citizenry popularly elects someone from their congressional district to the House and someone from their state to the Senate.
What has Trump done to erode this?

Actually, you are right. If the House and Senate don't stand up to Trump it's up to voters to out those politicians. If we don't that's on us.

But then Trump tries to add seats to the House in Texas to rig the elections. That wasn't cool. Now Democrats did it back and I heard this might have backfired on Republicans? I hope so.

 

[Jarod the Original]

Weeks ago I argued who cares if instead of Trump adding $13 trillion to the debt he adds $14? What does it matter right? The new POTUS' will get their cut win or lose just like CEO's do.

Don can take the bribe and start the war but how it turns out who knows right? And Don's teflon. Nothing seems to affect him. We might all lose but he wins. I mean look at that interview where he told us all that Iran gets to keep nuclear materials, ballistic missles, control of the straights AND $300 Billion dollars. The same guy who said Obama would do something this foolish. The same guy who said $1.7 billion was a lot. Just gave Iran $300 Billion. But he always has a spin. Wait for it??? But Iran has to buy our corn, wheat and soy beans with that money. LOL. Sure don. Whatever you say. Sure.

This is why we say your Unregulated Free Market Capitalism SCHTick is something you are very selective about. Socialism for the rich is good. For the masses, no good. Because that would cost the rich.

Every time we cut taxes, the deficit jumps. Its basic economics. The government is pleasing the people with lower taxes, then taking out a loan to make up the difference.

Tax cuts should come with mandatory spending cuts, but the people like their services.

 

[Votto]

I do not believe he has taken Democracy away, I do not think one President could do that in the UNITED STATES, I do believe he has tried to erode as much of Democracy as he can without being kicked out of office.

Not sure why people get their panties in a wad arguing over what is worse, fascism or socialism? Both are terrible. Both are different flavors of a top-heavy centralized government dictating to the masses what they should think and do and most importantly, how to redistribute any wealth they might have the way they see fit.

I would say that 99.9% of people around the globe would say that fascism is worse, however. This can be directly attributed to the Nazi regime who are recognized as fascists. But these same people either have no idea that the Nazi party stood for National Socialist, or they discount it as being a false label.

Tell me, who do the Nazi voices of the past sound like today?

National Socialist Party of Germany (NAZI) Quotes​

• • We ask that government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within the confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: ... an end to the power of financial interest. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand ... the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our system of public education.... We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.... The government must undertake the improvement of public health -- by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor -- by the greatest possible support for all groups concerned with the physical education of youth. [W]e combat the ... materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of The Common Good Before the Individual Good.~ National Socialist Party of Germany (NAZI)
    

Or this?

We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.~ Adolf Hitler

The bottom line is, Marxism has murdered hundreds of millions more people than Nazism, yet today around the globe it is considered cool to be a socialist. Why? It is because the same governments that are leaning towards socialism want the public to embrace it, which they will, because they always have once their propaganda indoctrinates them sufficiently through state run schools and state-controlled media.

But as the world begins to lean towards this Left-wing Nazi like nightmare, you should not also be surprised that they hate Jews as well as they won't rest until the 7 million Jews in Israel all meet the same fate as the Jews on 10/7.

 

[M14 Shooter]

He is trying to restrict the ability to vote,...

Restrict the ability of whom to vote?
Be specific and provide examples

he has threatened groups of people,

Pretty vague.
Be specific and provide in-context examples whch demonstrate this serves to erode Democracy.

he has threatened to send the national guard out to "monitor polling areas".

As a means to prevent illegals from voting.
How does that erode Democracy?

He has denigrated and tried to delegitimize qualified candidates.

No different than anyone else.

He has bullied elected officials out of office

Pretty vague.
Be specific and provide in-context examples

. He has promoted jerrymandering trying to limit the power of certain people's vote.

No different than anyone else.

He has tried to undermine the confidence in the electoral system when he did not like the results.

No different than anyone else.

If what you say about Trump is true, then you need to expand your list of people trying to erode Democracy.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Every time we cut taxes, the deficit jumps.

Well sure - because spending always increases.

 

[sealybobo]

Every time we cut taxes, the deficit jumps. Its basic economics. The government is pleasing the people with lower taxes, then taking out a loan to make up the difference.

Tax cuts should come with mandatory spending cuts, but the people like their services.

I remember Clinton handed Bush a surplus. He decided to give the rich tax breaks with it. Trump DOGED the poor to give rich people more tax breaks. Things are not right here.

What do you want to cut?

President Donald Trump proposed an unprecedented $1.5 trillion defense budget for Fiscal Year 2027 to fund his "Dream Military". This massive spending plan aims to build the "Golden Dome" missile shield, expand shipbuilding, and increase pay for military personnel