The conundrum

[MaggieMae]

The mood of the country (at least that which gets widely reported) is that people want solutions. The only problem with that is these same people don't want those solutions to involve any sacrifices.

Polling stats indicate people want cheaper and more reliable health insurance. But to actually listen to the grumbling, they rebel at any tradeoff that would make it possible. They demand the government do something about jobs, now, but are highly critical of government stimulus spending which adds to the deficit. They want deficit reduction, but not if it means higher taxes or cuts in any program that benefits them.

 

[Oddball]

Wowzers!...People want everything but want everyone else to pay for it.

Stop the presses!

 

[dilloduck]

Demanding and lazy SOBs ain't we ?

 

[Truthmatters]

Time to pay the piper people

 

[Baruch Menachem]

We want jobs, but we can get there faster with tax cuts rather than spending on the buds of politicians doing trickle down to us.

We want all the stupid purged from the health care system so that prices are lower. Not compounded stupid.

They want solutions, but not the solutions on offer.

 

[MaggieMae]

Wowzers!...People want everything but want everyone else to pay for it.

Stop the presses!

Yup. Just because YOU get it doesn't mean there aren't a whole bunch of ignoramuses out there who don't.

[Still can't rep you, Dude. But I owe you one.] Oops, the other one went through. I should check those things more often. You've been posrep'd by me once, but don't let it go to your head!

 

[MaggieMae]

We want jobs, but we can get there faster with tax cuts rather than spending on the buds of politicians doing trickle down to us.
Yeah, how'd that work out for ya from 2002 onward? How does that adage go? Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We want all the stupid purged from the health care system so that prices are lower. Not compounded stupid.

They want solutions, but not the solutions on offer.

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

 

[Foxfyre]

We want jobs, but we can get there faster with tax cuts rather than spending on the buds of politicians doing trickle down to us.
Yeah, how'd that work out for ya from 2002 onward? How does that adage go? Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We want all the stupid purged from the health care system so that prices are lower. Not compounded stupid.

They want solutions, but not the solutions on offer.

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

I sure you see it that way Maggie, but it simply is not true. Conservatism is a concept, a way of life, a specific idea of what good government is and/or should be.

Modern liberalism embraces government and looks to it to provide solutions for all or most of humankind's problems.

Modern American conservatism embraces self reliance, self determination, and personal freedom. It wants government to mostly secure our rights as specified in the Constitution and then leave us alone to seek our own destiny.

And that is your problem. It isn't obstruction or hatefulness or unwillingness to seek solutions. It is the tension between the 'nanny state' and 'freedom'.

Scott Rasmussen sums it up really well in his new book In Search of Self-Governance:

Years of public opinion polls have shown a growing disconnect between the American people and the nation’s political leaders. Rasmussen’s conclusion: Americans don’t want to be governed from the left, the right or the center. They want to govern themselves. The American desire for – and attachment to – self-governance runs deep. It is one of our nation’s cherished core values and an important part of our cultural DNA. And right now, it needs to be saved.


“Self-governance is about far more than politics and government,” says Rasmussen. “It requires a lot of the American people, and it has nothing to do with the petty partisan games played by Republicans and Democrats. Unfortunately, even after more than 200 years of success, there is an urgent need to defend this most basic of American values.”

In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

 

[uscitizen]

Conbservative just want to regulate our personal lives?
gay marriage, etc.

 

[Truthmatters]

whatever they think they are for they merely help the corporations get EVERYTHING they want from us.

The Rs are useful idiots for corporate America.

 

[uscitizen]

whatever they think they are for they merely help the corporations get EVERYTHING they want from us.

The Rs are useful idiots for corporate America.

As are apparently far too many of the dems as well.

 

[MaggieMae]

We want jobs, but we can get there faster with tax cuts rather than spending on the buds of politicians doing trickle down to us.
Yeah, how'd that work out for ya from 2002 onward? How does that adage go? Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We want all the stupid purged from the health care system so that prices are lower. Not compounded stupid.

They want solutions, but not the solutions on offer.

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

I sure you see it that way Maggie, but it simply is not true. Conservatism is a concept, a way of life, a specific idea of what good government is and/or should be.

Modern liberalism embraces government and looks to it to provide solutions for all or most of humankind's problems.

Modern American conservatism embraces self reliance, self determination, and personal freedom. It wants government to mostly secure our rights as specified in the Constitution and then leave us alone to seek our own destiny.

And that is your problem. It isn't obstruction or hatefulness or unwillingness to seek solutions. It is the tension between the 'nanny state' and 'freedom'.

Scott Rasmussen sums it up really well in his new book In Search of Self-Governance:

Years of public opinion polls have shown a growing disconnect between the American people and the nation’s political leaders. Rasmussen’s conclusion: Americans don’t want to be governed from the left, the right or the center. They want to govern themselves. The American desire for – and attachment to – self-governance runs deep. It is one of our nation’s cherished core values and an important part of our cultural DNA. And right now, it needs to be saved.


“Self-governance is about far more than politics and government,” says Rasmussen. “It requires a lot of the American people, and it has nothing to do with the petty partisan games played by Republicans and Democrats. Unfortunately, even after more than 200 years of success, there is an urgent need to defend this most basic of American values.”

In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

This country today cannot be run based on pure conservative ideology. It simply can't. We're now a nation of around 307 million very diverse individuals, and conservatism tends to assume that all those millions can be neatly placed in one box and all come out the same--happily ever after--without regard to the enormous differences in class, culture, environment, or community structure. Conservative ideologues live in a world of what-if, and not in the real world of WHAT-IS.

 

[Truthmatters]

whatever they think they are for they merely help the corporations get EVERYTHING they want from us.

The Rs are useful idiots for corporate America.

As are apparently far too many of the dems as well.

Very likely , that can of whoopass (number 10 size) better be opening as we speak or Im done with them too.

 

[dilloduck]

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

I sure you see it that way Maggie, but it simply is not true. Conservatism is a concept, a way of life, a specific idea of what good government is and/or should be.

Modern liberalism embraces government and looks to it to provide solutions for all or most of humankind's problems.

Modern American conservatism embraces self reliance, self determination, and personal freedom. It wants government to mostly secure our rights as specified in the Constitution and then leave us alone to seek our own destiny.

And that is your problem. It isn't obstruction or hatefulness or unwillingness to seek solutions. It is the tension between the 'nanny state' and 'freedom'.

Scott Rasmussen sums it up really well in his new book In Search of Self-Governance:

Years of public opinion polls have shown a growing disconnect between the American people and the nation’s political leaders. Rasmussen’s conclusion: Americans don’t want to be governed from the left, the right or the center. They want to govern themselves. The American desire for – and attachment to – self-governance runs deep. It is one of our nation’s cherished core values and an important part of our cultural DNA. And right now, it needs to be saved.


“Self-governance is about far more than politics and government,” says Rasmussen. “It requires a lot of the American people, and it has nothing to do with the petty partisan games played by Republicans and Democrats. Unfortunately, even after more than 200 years of success, there is an urgent need to defend this most basic of American values.”

In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

This country today cannot be run based on pure conservative ideology. It simply can't. We're now a nation of around 307 million very diverse individuals, and conservatism tends to assume that all those millions can be neatly placed in one box and all come out the same--happily ever after--without regard to the enormous differences in class, culture, environment, or community structure. Conservative ideologues live in a world of what-if, and not in the real world of WHAT-IS.

Sure it can-----there will be a huge outcry from those who can't or won't be responsible but it can be done a WHOLE lot more conservatively.

 

[uscitizen]

But the conservatives are no longer conservative!

 

[Foxfyre]

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

I sure you see it that way Maggie, but it simply is not true. Conservatism is a concept, a way of life, a specific idea of what good government is and/or should be.

Modern liberalism embraces government and looks to it to provide solutions for all or most of humankind's problems.

Modern American conservatism embraces self reliance, self determination, and personal freedom. It wants government to mostly secure our rights as specified in the Constitution and then leave us alone to seek our own destiny.

And that is your problem. It isn't obstruction or hatefulness or unwillingness to seek solutions. It is the tension between the 'nanny state' and 'freedom'.

Scott Rasmussen sums it up really well in his new book In Search of Self-Governance:

Years of public opinion polls have shown a growing disconnect between the American people and the nation’s political leaders. Rasmussen’s conclusion: Americans don’t want to be governed from the left, the right or the center. They want to govern themselves. The American desire for – and attachment to – self-governance runs deep. It is one of our nation’s cherished core values and an important part of our cultural DNA. And right now, it needs to be saved.


“Self-governance is about far more than politics and government,” says Rasmussen. “It requires a lot of the American people, and it has nothing to do with the petty partisan games played by Republicans and Democrats. Unfortunately, even after more than 200 years of success, there is an urgent need to defend this most basic of American values.”

In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

This country today cannot be run based on pure conservative ideology. It simply can't. We're now a nation of around 307 million very diverse individuals, and conservatism tends to assume that all those millions can be neatly placed in one box and all come out the same--happily ever after--without regard to the enormous differences in class, culture, environment, or community structure. Conservative ideologues live in a world of what-if, and not in the real world of WHAT-IS.

Your post shows that you do not and perhaps cannot understand what modern American conservatism is all about. MAC (modern American conservatism) does not even attempt to put everybody in one box, much less advocate doing so. MAC as we define it allows individualism and diversity as no modern liberal philosophy has ever allowed. Unlike modern liberalism, it does not assume that everybody will live 'happily ever after', but conservatism gives everybody the same opportunities to make choices that give them a shot for that outcome. MAC acknowledges that a moral society takes care of the truly helpless, but it rejects a mindset and policy that encourage people to be helpless or dependent. Dependency comes at a cost of personal freedoms, lost opportunities, and equalization of misery . That is unacceptable to most American conservatives.

Differences in class, culture, environment, community structure, etc. are all possible and even encouraged in American conservatism. We want the Federal government to secure our rights and then leave us mostly alone to live our lives as we choose to live them.

 

[Charles Stucker]

This country today cannot be run based on pure conservative ideology. It simply can't. We're now a nation of around 307 million very diverse individuals, and conservatism tends to assume that all those millions can be neatly placed in one box and all come out the same--happily ever after--without regard to the enormous differences in class, culture, environment, or community structure.

And it is evil to ask that the burned out potheads who don't want to work for a living pull their own weight.
Yes, Evil in the extreme.

I'll take two helpings of that evil with a side of independence thank you.

 

[MaggieMae]

I sure you see it that way Maggie, but it simply is not true. Conservatism is a concept, a way of life, a specific idea of what good government is and/or should be.

Modern liberalism embraces government and looks to it to provide solutions for all or most of humankind's problems.

Modern American conservatism embraces self reliance, self determination, and personal freedom. It wants government to mostly secure our rights as specified in the Constitution and then leave us alone to seek our own destiny.

And that is your problem. It isn't obstruction or hatefulness or unwillingness to seek solutions. It is the tension between the 'nanny state' and 'freedom'.

Scott Rasmussen sums it up really well in his new book In Search of Self-Governance:



In Search of Self-Governance - Rasmussen Reports

This country today cannot be run based on pure conservative ideology. It simply can't. We're now a nation of around 307 million very diverse individuals, and conservatism tends to assume that all those millions can be neatly placed in one box and all come out the same--happily ever after--without regard to the enormous differences in class, culture, environment, or community structure. Conservative ideologues live in a world of what-if, and not in the real world of WHAT-IS.

Your post shows that you do not and perhaps cannot understand what modern American conservatism is all about. MAC (modern American conservatism) does not even attempt to put everybody in one box, much less advocate doing so. MAC as we define it allows individualism and diversity as no modern liberal philosophy has ever allowed. Unlike modern liberalism, it does not assume that everybody will live 'happily ever after', but conservatism gives everybody the same opportunities to make choices that give them a shot for that outcome. MAC acknowledges that a moral society takes care of the truly helpless, but it rejects a mindset and policy that encourage people to be helpless or dependent. Dependency comes at a cost of personal freedoms, lost opportunities, and equalization of misery . That is unacceptable to most American conservatives.

Differences in class, culture, environment, community structure, etc. are all possible and even encouraged in American conservatism. We want the Federal government to secure our rights and then leave us mostly alone to live our lives as we choose to live them.

All of that is very sweet and noble, but again, it is pure ideology and is NOT what is actually practiced by the masses of conservatives. Instead, it consists of a pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps mindset; anyone can be successful if he or she only tries; the inner-city poverty pockets made their own bed and now they can lie in it; and my favorite mantra "Don't Tread On Me" which sums up TODAY'S overall conservative mentality quite well. Conservatives have yet to prove to me that, left to their own private charities, they are any better at taking care of the truly helpless, and they most certainly do NOT allow the same "opportunities" for the downtrodden to make it on their own. I don't single out YOU, personally, and I do know that there are millions of truly compassionate conservatives, but as a general rule, the new-new conservatives are all for themselves and nobody else. I got mine, so screw the rest of you. Don't tread on me.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

We want jobs, but we can get there faster with tax cuts rather than spending on the buds of politicians doing trickle down to us.
Yeah, how'd that work out for ya from 2002 onward? How does that adage go? Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

We want all the stupid purged from the health care system so that prices are lower. Not compounded stupid.

They want solutions, but not the solutions on offer.

The OP was a generalization of the mood of the country. Address that, please. Offering solutions to specific issues are discussed elsewhere (although rather lean on the side of conservatives who are generally 99.99% criticism and 1% solutions).

In my case, pretty well. I lost my job in the Clinton recession of 93(It always does seem to be the case that when a Democrat goes in, my income goes down) and it wasn't until 1997 that I got a long term job again, and that was a huge cut in pay from what I had in 93. It wasn't until 2005 that my income rose back to the levels I enjoyed during the reign of Bush 41.

 

[Foxfyre]

All of that is very sweet and noble, but again, it is pure ideology and is NOT what is actually practiced by the masses of conservatives. Instead, it consists of a pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps mindset; anyone can be successful if he or she only tries; the inner-city poverty pockets made their own bed and now they can lie in it; and my favorite mantra "Don't Tread On Me" which sums up TODAY'S overall conservative mentality quite well. Conservatives have yet to prove to me that, left to their own private charities, they are any better at taking care of the truly helpless, and they most certainly do NOT allow the same "opportunities" for the downtrodden to make it on their own. I don't single out YOU, personally, and I do know that there are millions of truly compassionate conservatives, but as a general rule, the new-new conservatives are all for themselves and nobody else. I got mine, so screw the rest of you. Don't tread on me.

Well that would probably depend on how you define ideology. I define ideology as the basic concepts, principles, and/or values held by an individual, group, or society - the social contract - or - the core beliefs that form the basis of a sociopolitical system.

If that is how you define it then yes, my view of modern American conservatism is based on ideology shared by all or most who consider themselves American conservatives as the term is defined and understood by them now.

If you define it as misconceptions and wrong headed dogma, then you described your own ideology when you so badly misrepresent what modern American conservatism is all about.

For instance, conservatives know that there are people who need a hand up which is why it is almost exclusively conservatives, more especially religious conservative, who establish and volunteer at homeless shelters, soup kitchens, orphanages and homes for troubled children, halfway houses, thrift shops, leper colonies, prison ministries, tutoring and mentoring programs, latchkey programs, etc. etc. etc.

The difference is that liberals look to the government to do things like that and then the liberals don't have to get their hands dirty. They don't seem to care whether anybody's situation ever improves so long as they can salve their conscience by throwing other people's money at the problem.

Conservatives see it as their personal responsibility and, except in rare cases, not the responsibility of government. Conservatives think it is wrong to help people stay in poverty or other unpleasant situation, but that the focus should be on taking care of their basic needs to live but otherwise make getting out of poverty or other unpleasant situation much more attractive than staying in it.

Liberals seem to think good intentions are sufficient to do something. Conservatives know the best intentions can sometimes be disastrous and that the goal should always be results, not just feeling smug or righteous that you meant well.

Liberals see people of color, the poor, the errant, the disadvantaged, and even sometimes the criminal as victims of society and the responsibility of government to make their lives better. Conservatives see them as people with abilities and hopes and dreams and possibilities, and the kindest thing you can do for them is to show them how to make good choices that give them the best possible shot at achieving what they want out of life.

In the broadest term, liberals too often punish or penalize success and reward underachievement or failure. Conservatives think success is a worthy goal and all people should be encouraged to achieve it. That won't happen with many folks if we make it profitable or with little or no consequence for them to fail.

In short Conservatives, on average, more especially religious conservatives, have been more generous with their time, talents, and fortunes than have liberals, on average. Conservatism is not synonymous with lack of compassion or hard heartedness or unwillingness to give folks a hand up. They just disagree with most liberals in the best way to do that.