The Cold War

[whitehall]

Actually, the USA dodged the bullet in 1962 - the Russians would be ready to attack US missile bases and Naval bases of missiles submarines in March of 1963.
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JFK's mistake was the he didn't started the real invasion on Cuba before Soviet missiles were delivered. He allowed the USA to lost nuclear superiority.

And yes, just another nice Cold War song:

A Russian document that seems to claim that they wouldn't be ready to attack U.S. bases for another six months doesn't make their case any stronger. JFK was a weak dilettante possibly dependent on prescription drugs for a chronic back ailment and the Russians knew it even if the American media refused to criticize Camelot. Using the CIA to recruit, train and equip an invasion army to overthrow the government of a sovereign country was a crime. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan for much less in the 80's.

 

[Silver Cat]

A Russian document that seems to claim that they wouldn't be ready to attack U.S. bases for another six months doesn't make their case any stronger.

But in ten days they would delivered all SS-5, and then their attack was inevitable.

JFK was a weak dilettante possibly dependent on prescription drugs for a chronic back ailment and the Russians knew it even if the American media refused to criticize Camelot. Using the CIA to recruit, train and equip an invasion army to overthrow the government of a sovereign country was a crime. Democrats tried to impeach Reagan for much less in the 80's.

Same way sea blockade or treats of force usage were "crimes". But what would you prefer:
1) Attack Cuba before missiles were delivered. No arms control, Warsaw Pact and the USSR collapsed in 1968, victory in Vietnam, no hippies, etc...
2) Do not blockade Cuba. Soviet Nuclear attack against American missile and SSBN bases in the spring of 1963, collapse of democracy, the USA becames another Soviet satellite.

 

[harryo]

Mushroom what tension? and the Cuban Missile Crisis is over blown. There's no proof that that would've started a nuke war

 

[Mushroom]

@Mushroom what tension? and the Cuban Missile Crisis is over blown. There's no proof that that would've started a nuke war

Where did I mention the Cuban Missile Crisis?

And "what tension"? Let me guess, you are a Millennial, right?

That entire era was filled with a tension of a nuclear war at almost any time. And that is clearly reflected in the pop culture of the time, which was everywhere.

And that is not even talking about the songs at the start, which were almost comedy, like Bill Haley's "Thirteen Women" and all those on the Fallout soundtrack. From the 1970's until the end of the Cold War it was constantly there. If you don't know about it, I can only imagine you were not yet alive so have no comprehension.

Hence, the point of this thread. That those born afterwards simply have no comprehension of that era and simply dismiss it out of hand.

 

[harryo]

Where did I mention the Cuban Missile Crisis?

And "what tension"? Let me guess, you are a Millennial, right?

That entire era was filled with a tension of a nuclear war at almost any time. And that is clearly reflected in the pop culture of the time, which was everywhere.

And that is not even talking about the songs at the start, which were almost comedy, like Bill Haley's "Thirteen Women" and all those on the Fallout soundtrack. From the 1970's until the end of the Cold War it was constantly there. If you don't know about it, I can only imagine you were not yet alive so have no comprehension.

Hence, the point of this thread. That those born afterwards simply have no comprehension of that era and simply dismiss it out of hand.

I'm older than you are. there was no tension. You must be a worry wart

 

[Mushroom]

I'm older than you are. there was no tension. You must be a worry wart

 

[whitehall]

But in ten days they would delivered all SS-5, and then their attack was inevitable.


Same way sea blockade or treats of force usage were "crimes". But what would you prefer:
1) Attack Cuba before missiles were delivered. No arms control, Warsaw Pact and the USSR collapsed in 1968, victory in Vietnam, no hippies, etc...
2) Do not blockade Cuba. Soviet Nuclear attack against American missile and SSBN bases in the spring of 1963, collapse of democracy, the USA becames another Soviet satellite.

The Russians shipped missiles to Cuba after JFK's (mis)adventure at the Bay of Pigs. If JFK hadn't listened to his quirky brother's insane plans to overthrow the Castro regime and/or murder Fidel, the Cuban Missile Crisis probably wouldn't have happened. There should be a law that prohibits the president from hiring his own brother as A.G.

 

[jwoodie]

It seemed like every month there was a new movie based on that on TV during the 1980s.

Of course there were; President Reagan was an insane warmonger who had to be stopped from a second term (sound familiar?). The Day After was heavily promoted, yet shown on network television (ABC) without any commercials.

 

[g5000]

One thing as a "Boomer" that I find fascinating and frustrating is trying to make Millennials understand what the "Cold War" was like. They know by history that nothing happened, but simply can not seem to grasp what the tensions were like during that era, even among the general population.

I was active duty during the Cold War. I was sure I was destined to go up in a mushroom cloud. But we made it, and I managed to serve well past the end of the Cold War. For a while there, we were like, "Uh...now what?"

Aside from the fact every American was pretty much resigned to the knowledge we were all going to die in a nuclear holocaust, I think the worst outcome of the Cold War is that our country ended up getting into bed with some very bad bedfellows.

Dictators, war criminals, human rights violators and such.

We are still paying the price for that.

It's not like we had a choice. It was a "lesser of two evils" situation, and a whole lot of innocent people suffered for it and Americans kept a blind eye to it all.

War, cold or hot, is hell.

 

[Mushroom]

Of course there were; President Reagan was an insane warmonger who had to be stopped from a second term (sound familiar?). The Day After was heavily promoted, yet shown on network television (ABC) without any commercials.

There were a slew of them in the 1980's. The last one (By Dawn's Early Light) was a big event on HBO, a year before the Soviet Union collapsed. And I still laugh at that image some still have of President Reagan. He signed treaties that eliminated more nukes than any other President, and entire classes of weapon systems. Yet some still believe he was a warmonger. I was also on active duty then, and it was in all areas of pop culture during that era.

 

[Silver Cat]

Mushroom what tension? and the Cuban Missile Crisis is over blown. There's no proof that that would've started a nuke war

 

[Silver Cat]

The Russians shipped missiles to Cuba after JFK's (mis)adventure at the Bay of Pigs. If JFK hadn't listened to his quirky brother's insane plans to overthrow the Castro regime and/or murder Fidel, the Cuban Missile Crisis probably wouldn't have happened. There should be a law that prohibits the president from hiring his own brother as A.G.

In fact, Russian sources (including Khrushchev himself) write, that it wasn't about Cuba only, it was more about US missiles in Europe.

 

[Mushroom]

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Why are you reposting a letter in Russian? Nobody here can likely read it, and it has nothing to do with the issue.

 

[frigidweirdo]

One thing as a "Boomer" that I find fascinating and frustrating is trying to make Millennials understand what the "Cold War" was like. They know by history that nothing happened, but simply can not seem to grasp what the tensions were like during that era, even among the general population.

And the Cold War really did filter through almost all of pop culture of the era. That even our pop songs were full of such things as a nuclear Armageddon at any time.


I Melt With You, by Modern English

Yes, a "love song" about two people melting together during a modern holocaust.


99 Luftbaloons, by Nena

Yes, a "happy pop song" about a nuclear war started because somebody released some balloons.


The Future's So Bright, I Gotta Wear Shades", by Timbuk 3


"Christmas at Ground Zero", by "Weird Al" Yankovic

Yes, even Weird Al got into the mix in 1986 with this festive holiday song.

Yes, yet another 80's pop song, you have to wear shades because otherwise the flash of the nuclear bomb will blind you.

For those to young to remember (or those old enough to like me), I thought I would throw out some movies that might help some understand what living in that era was really like.

I think looking at how people were controlled during the Cold War and comparing it to the modern day and the semi-Cold War that exists between China/Russia and NATO would be a very interesting topic. If you look at nationalism in China, it's following US methods in the old Cold War, for example.

 

[Silver Cat]

Why are you reposting a letter in Russian? Nobody here can likely read it, and it has nothing to do with the issue.

It's not a letter. It's the order from Soviet Minister of defense Malinowski to Commander of Soviet Forces on Cuba General Pliev to attack "most important targets in the USA after the signal from Moscow, according appendix 1"
As we know, the most important targets are those, that can kill you.

"Appendix 1 - list of the missile bases and bases of missile submarines for making flight tasks".

I hope everyone understands, that there is no reason to attack empty missile bases in a relation strike. Actually, this is the prove, that the Soviets planned first counter-force strike directly against the USA. It was not about defending Cuba. It was about attacking the USA.

 

[Mushroom]

It's not a letter. It's the order from Soviet Minister of defense Malinowski to Commander of Soviet Forces on Cuba General Pliev to attack "most important targets in the USA after the signal from Moscow, according appendix 1"

It is in Russian, might as well be a shopping list. No reference to a translation or the validity of it, no context, nothing.

 

[Silver Cat]

It is in Russian, might as well be a shopping list. No reference to a translation or the validity of it, no context, nothing.

Russian is the second most used language on the internet after English, it's not a problem to find Russian-readers. I'm sure that
AlexanderPK Ringo Baron Richard-H ESay and may be even Litwin can help you.
For context - read other sources, including memoirs of participants of the operation.

 

[harryo]

Silver Cat again: There are very very few total wars. There really hasn't even been any nuke wars. The Atomic bombs were used at the very, very end of WW2 and only by one country. There is no proof the Cuban Crisis put us close to a nuke war---that's all speculation = but history proves most probably, we were not close to a nuke war