Zone1 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the only true and living Church today

[SweetSue92]

Now listen, I have had The Holy Spirit come to me, and it was in dat eebil Mormon church.

I have also had premonitions that came true and my faith cannot be shaken.

It didn't happen during baptism, it happened during a regular ..Oh man, what do they call it?
Maybe a testimony meeting. No, Sacrament meeting. Like the everyday service and it just happened. It is what it is.

It is actually very sad but this is what they do. When the story seems too outlandish--the rocks, the plates, Jesus teleporting to America, the planet you're going to inhabit with your celestial wife and all your Mormon celestial babies--you're supposed to monitor your own internal state and wait for that "burning in your bosom" or something.

Sad to say, really. God is a God of order. And I don't trust burning bosoms. I had that once after two bowls of zucchini soup--kept me up most of the night. heh

 

[The Duke]

Now let me leave you and readers with a thought. You have a lot of misconceptions about Christianity and the Bible. Such as: the prophecies are about Mormonism; you must be baptized with laying on of hands to receive the Spirit; Jesus Christ never interacted with Gentiles except I guess...in the Americas (!).

If Satan wanted to construct a powerful cult of mostly good, honest people to draw them AWAY from the Word of God--what would he do differently?

What makes you think Jesus never interacted with any non-Jews when the 1st place he went was Ethiopia? They are blacker than coal and not Jews. A beautiful people, but they are mighty black and not Jews. Jesus went there before he went to any Americas.

And yes, he did go to the Americas. Indians and South Americans have records of it.

After resurrection from the dead.

 

[SweetSue92]

What makes you think Jesus never interacted with any non-Jews when the 1st place he went was Ethiopia? They are blacker than coal and not Jews. A beautiful people, but they are mighty black and not Jews. Jesus went there before he went to any Americas.

And yes, he did go to the Americas. Indians and South Americans have records of it.

After resurrection from the dead.

I never said Jesus didn't interact with non-Jews. He did. See my sources.

 

[The Duke]

I never said Jesus didn't interact with non-Jews. He did. See my sources.

Idk even what I'm doing here, but I know this:

There are many churches that are true and have the Spirit of God and the Mormon church is not excluded from that.
The Catholic church is pretty dicey on that.
Great, I just painted a huge target on my back.

 

[onefour1]

False.

That is just patently false. No person, no man is in charge of the Holy Spirit--one of the Three in One. This is reinforced in Scripture when the Spirit came first to those gathered together for Pentecost.

We do not baptize to confer the Spirit. Because again, no man can be in charge of that. But if an organization can CONVINCE you that they are in charge of that? Whoa nelly. They've got you there, don't they?

The verse I posted above clearly show that the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ had the authority to lay their hands upon those who repent and are baptized and gave the the gift of the Holy Ghost. There is a difference between getting a witness of the Holy Ghost and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. My guess is that your church neither has apostles or prophets which the scriptures clearly teach are part of the true church of Jesus Christ and by your own admission nobody in your church has the authority to lay hands on repentant souls who receive baptism to convey this gift. Here again are verses showing that the Apostles of the Lord layed their hands on the heads of people to give them the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:15-20
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Acts 19:2-6
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Hebrews 6:1-2
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

1 Timothy 4:14
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

2 Timothy 1:6
6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

The authority to lay hands upon others and convey the gift of the Holy Ghost is part of the priesthood that Jesus bestowed upon his Apostles. Is is given to any person that is ordained an Elder in the church of Jesus Christ. If you do not believe thee verses above, then you certainly do not believe the Bible.

 

[The Duke]

The way the Mormon church is constructed is so orderly I would not doubt it's divinely organized.

The 12 and 70 stuff, yeah. Makes sense to me.

My friend's grandpa was one of the 70. Quorum of the 70.

Glenn Beck is probably a turd.

 

[onefour1]

Peter understands this completely also in Acts 10:44: "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message."

They weren't baptized first. The Holy Spirit does what it wills; He depends on no man. Later:

Then Peter said, "Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. For surely they have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."--Acts 10:46-47

So again you have the Spirit first, then baptizing.

(For those reading along: this is fairly common with Mormons, sadly. They cherry pick the Bible so as to make their fiction seem legitimate. Most Mormons are fairly illiterate, Biblically. Sadly)

What you fail to understand is that there is a difference between feeling the spirit and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. God wants people to understand that his church is true and will manifest that truthfulness to them through the Holy Ghost. This will lead them to believe and be baptized. But this is not the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to those who repent and are baptized and then have the hands of the presbytery placed upon them and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. So yes the Holy Ghost can come upon any individual to lead them to the church of Christ but they are not given the gift of the Holy Ghost unless they repent of their sins and are baptized. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the promise that if you remain faithful, the Holy Ghost can be a constant companion in your life.

 

[The Duke]

The verse I posted above clearly show that the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ had the authority to lay their hands upon those who repent and are baptized and gave the the gift of the Holy Ghost. There is a difference between getting a witness of the Holy Ghost and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. My guess is that your church neither has apostles or prophets which the scriptures clearly teach are part of the true church of Jesus Christ and by your own admission nobody in your church has the authority to lay hands on repentant souls who receive baptism to convey this gift. Here again are verses showing that the Apostles of the Lord layed their hands on the heads of people to give them the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:15-20
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Acts 19:2-6
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Hebrews 6:1-2
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

1 Timothy 4:14
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

2 Timothy 1:6
6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

The authority to lay hands upon others and convey the gift of the Holy Ghost is part of the priesthood that Jesus bestowed upon his Apostles. Is is given to any person that is ordained an Elder in the church of Jesus Christ. If you do not believe thee verses above, then you certainly do not believe the Bible.

You need to mention the Melchizedek somewhere in there.

 

[onefour1]

You need to look in a real Bible--not a Mormon altered Bible. Amos ends with the restoration of Israel. It's about the exile to Babylon and the restoration. It's not about Joseph Smith looking at some rocks in a hat. Believe that.

All the verses I have quoted you are from the King James Bible. Yet you don't believe what they say when it clearly tells you that the gift of the Holy Ghost was given by the laying on of hands by the Apostles of Jesus.

 

[The Duke]

What you fail to understand is that there is a difference between feeling the spirit and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. God wants people to understand that his church is true and will manifest that truthfulness to them through the Holy Ghost. This will lead them to believe and be baptized. But this is not the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to those who repent and are baptized and then have the hands of the presbytery placed upon them and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. So yes the Holy Ghost can come upon any individual to lead them to the church of Christ but they are not given the gift of the Holy Ghost unless they repent of their sins and are baptized. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the promise that if you remain faithful, the Holy Ghost can be a constant companion in your life.

The Holy Spirit is much more than that and is meant to guide people.

 

[onefour1]

You need to mention the Melchizedek somewhere in there.

There are two levels of priesthood in the church. There is the Aaronic priesthood and the Mechizedek priesthood. The Aaronic priest is what was given to Aaron and his posterity. They have the authority to baptize by immersion in water. The Aaronic priesthood is a preparatory priesthood. It prepares you to later receive the higher priesthood which is the Melchizedek priesthood. The Melchizedek priest is the high priesthood. Those who have been ordained unto this priesthood have the authority to do all that an Aaronic priesthood holder can do but also can also perform higher ordinances of the gospel such and conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How did I do? Wondering if you are the Duke from LDSFF?

 

[onefour1]

Um yes of course we have record of Jesus giving direct communication to Gentiles. How about the centurion in Matthew 8? How about the Samaritan woman at the well in John 4?

For pity's sake

Christ's mission was unto the House of Israel. Yes, at times he did speak to Gentiles, but he did not offer them baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. That only came later when the apostles were instructed to take the gospel unto the Gentiles. The other sheep that Jesus went unto were of the house of Israel where he preached the full gospel unto them.

 

[onefour1]

Now let me leave you and readers with a thought. You have a lot of misconceptions about Christianity and the Bible. Such as: the prophecies are about Mormonism; you must be baptized with laying on of hands to receive the Spirit; Jesus Christ never interacted with Gentiles except I guess...in the Americas (!).

If Satan wanted to construct a powerful cult of mostly good, honest people to draw them AWAY from the Word of God--what would he do differently?

As I stated earlier, you can receive the Holy Ghost as a witness without receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. So your interpretation of what I am saying is incorrect. Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is a gift from God to those who repent and are baptized.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here Peter teaches that if you repent and are baptized, then you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[onefour1]

It is now 1:11 am. I must bid you both adieu for the night.

 

[konradv]

The Lord has only one true and living church. One reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a “living church” is that the living God reveals His will to living prophets and apostles. All other churches are dead and mourn constantly and this is the reason for the cross on all other Christian Churches. The worship the dead Christ while TCOJCOLDS worships the living Christ and has a spire pointing to the resurrecting living Christ.
"Three features—(1) fulness of doctrine, (2) power of the priesthood, and (3) testimony of Jesus Christ—explain why God has declared and why we as His servants maintain that this is the only true and living Church upon the face of the whole earth." - Dallin H. Oaks. Here is the entire massage from Elder Oaks, a current day Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ: The Only True and Living Church

Do not be threatened? Be humble: "Because of this declaration of the Lord, we refer to this, His Church—our Church—as the “only true Church.” Sometimes we do this in a way that gives great offense to people who belong to other churches or who subscribe to other philosophies. But God has not taught us anything that should cause us to feel superior to other people. Certainly all churches and philosophies have elements of truth in them, some more than others. Certainly God loves all of His children. And certainly His gospel plan is for all of His children, all according to His own timetable."

It was all made up by Joseph Smith to satisfy his own timetable.

 

[SweetSue92]

Idk even what I'm doing here, but I know this:

There are many churches that are true and have the Spirit of God and the Mormon church is not excluded from that.
The Catholic church is pretty dicey on that.
Great, I just painted a huge target on my back.

None of this is personal. It's not about people--it's about the truth.

 

[SweetSue92]

The verse I posted above clearly show that the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ had the authority to lay their hands upon those who repent and are baptized and gave the the gift of the Holy Ghost. There is a difference between getting a witness of the Holy Ghost and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. My guess is that your church neither has apostles or prophets which the scriptures clearly teach are part of the true church of Jesus Christ and by your own admission nobody in your church has the authority to lay hands on repentant souls who receive baptism to convey this gift. Here again are verses showing that the Apostles of the Lord layed their hands on the heads of people to give them the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:15-20
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Acts 19:2-6
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Hebrews 6:1-2
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

1 Timothy 4:14
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

2 Timothy 1:6
6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

The authority to lay hands upon others and convey the gift of the Holy Ghost is part of the priesthood that Jesus bestowed upon his Apostles. Is is given to any person that is ordained an Elder in the church of Jesus Christ. If you do not believe thee verses above, then you certainly do not believe the Bible.

You keep repeating verses when the apostles baptized and then the Holy Spirit was received. Yes sure, it can work that way. As I have already proven Biblically, it doesn't HAVE to. There were instances--I have showed you two--where the Holy Spirit was received and THEN believers were baptized.

You banging the gong louder is not going to erase that.

 

[SweetSue92]

What you fail to understand is that there is a difference between feeling the spirit and having the gift of the Holy Ghost. God wants people to understand that his church is true and will manifest that truthfulness to them through the Holy Ghost. This will lead them to believe and be baptized. But this is not the gift of the Holy Ghost. The gift of the Holy Ghost is given to those who repent and are baptized and then have the hands of the presbytery placed upon them and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. So yes the Holy Ghost can come upon any individual to lead them to the church of Christ but they are not given the gift of the Holy Ghost unless they repent of their sins and are baptized. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the promise that if you remain faithful, the Holy Ghost can be a constant companion in your life.

I don't fail to understand this. I reject it. It's not Biblical.

The Holy Spirit is one of the God in Three. The Holy Spirit is not beholden to obey any man. The Holy Spirit doesn't look around saying--oh my--here is someone I would love to indwell, but I can't until some Mormon hands are laid on.

Who invented this nonsense?

Oh yes. A conman. Joseph Smith.

 

[SweetSue92]

All the verses I have quoted you are from the King James Bible. Yet you don't believe what they say when it clearly tells you that the gift of the Holy Ghost was given by the laying on of hands by the Apostles of Jesus.

I do believe what they say. I also believe the Bible when it says laying on of hands is not necessary for the Spirit to act.

 

[WinterBorn]

They show up at my door a couple of times per year. I shake their hands, and tell them I respect their willingness to work for their beliefs, but my beliefs are just very different than theirs, and unless there is a chance I might be able to convert them, I'm positive they won't convert me. After offering to help me in any way, and another round of hand shakes,they usually leave. If they don't, I sing to them, and beg them to do the Hokey Pokey with me, and if that doesn't work, I show them this tiny oddly shaped birthmark right beside my ballsack. That usually sends them on their way.

Years ago, when my son was 14 or 15, I bought him a Ball Python for a birthday gift.

I found that if you answer the door with a 6' snake around your neck, both Mormons and the Jehovah's Witness' don't seem to be as concerned about your soul. They leave rather quickly.