Zone1 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the only true and living Church today

[SweetSue92]

All religion is a man-made con.

Believe this: yours is the biggest con of all.

 

[SweetSue92]

I simply used your words against you. You claim it's okay for Paul to have received divine intervention to be able to witness the resurrected Christ while rejecting the very same even with Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith saw the spoke with the resurrected Christ. He was told that the heavens would again speak and teach more knowledge to Israel through him and other prophets and apostles that would be called in these latter days, the time of restitution of all things. These things were prophesied in the OT as well as in the NT. Isaiah was clear that a book would be revealed in the last days that would cause the wise men (scholars and ministers) understanding to perish and their understanding would be hid or be known as false doctrine. Isaiah 29:10-14. You draw near to God but have removed your heats far from God and accept the teachings by the precepts of men mingled with scripture. Ezekiel speaks of this same book as the stick or book of Joseph through Ephraim that would become one in thine hand in the last days. So, why do you reject anything that comes forth in these days? Heck, you reject the fact that Paul and Smith had the same basic vision occurrence.

It is very simple.

Joseph Smith is a false prophet because he taught a false gospel, as warned against all over the epistles. That's first.

Second his prophecies from God have been altered and contradicted how many times in 200 years?

So no. Two fails.

 

[surada]

Nope. Nice try…

Nope. Nice try…

The Bible stories are often adapted from older cultures around them. The Jews were a Canaanite tribe who came to believe in one God. They would have known the story of Danel.

Danel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JustAGuy1]

You're mistaken. Read what Jesus said. Jesus said when the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel is seen (again) flee to the mountains. They did. They went to Pella and avoided the whole tribulation.

Christ said "Daniel the Prophet". Did Jesus lie?

 

[surada]

Christ said "Daniel the Prophet". Did Jesus lie?

Matthew 24.. I think. You can call Daniel a prophet or a historian or a minor prophet depending on whether you are Jew or Christian, but the book of Daniel was written in 164 BC about Antiochus IV Epiphanies. Antiochus IV died in 164 and he had defiled the temple with pagan sacrifices. He made it an Abomination of Desolation. He was hellbent to Hellenize the Jews.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Matthew 24.. I think. You can call Daniel a prophet or a historian or a minor prophet depending on whether you are Jew or Christian, but the book of Daniel was written in 164 BC about Antiochus IV Epiphanies. Antiochus IV died in 164 and he had defiled the temple with pagan sacrifices. He made it an Abomination of Desolation. He was hellbent to Hellenize the Jews.

Jesus called him a Prophet, that makes Daniel a Prophet. Why do you hate the Bible?

 

[surada]

Jesus called him a Prophet, that makes Daniel a Prophet. Why do you hate the Bible?

You're assuming that because I'm not a fundamentalist that I hate the Bible. Daniel wasn't prophesying.. Jesus knew the story and referred to it. Daniel never said that it would happen again.

 

[JustAGuy1]

You're assuming that because I'm not a fundamentalist that I hate the Bible. Daniel wasn't prophesying.. Jesus knew the story and referred to it. Daniel never said that it would happen again.

Jesus called Daniel a Prophet that makes him a Prophet. As for your reinterpretation of darn near the entire Bible itself shows you hate it as written. You've changed it to "fit" your own understanding of it. "Epic Myths".

 

[surada]

Jesus called Daniel a Prophet that makes him a Prophet. As for your reinterpretation of darn near the entire Bible itself shows you hate it as written. You've changed it to "fit" your own understanding of it. "Epic Myths".

Daniel didn't predict there would be a second Abomination of Desolation. Jesus referenced history.

 

[Clyde 154]

Daniel didn't predict there would be a second Abomination of Desolation. Jesus referenced history.

No..........it was Jesus that "prohesied" about a future event by referencing Daniel and comparing the 2. Jesus declared that the Desolation of Jerusalem, the Temple, and eventually Israel itself would be desolated by a surrounding army, and this would take place within that "very generation of Jews" (Matthew 23:34-39) He confronted the Jewish leaders for killing and flogging God's prophets while not obeying the Word of God (the Law) but obeying the traditions of man. He detailed how the desolation of the Temple and Jerusalem would come in Chapter 24.

And His predictions unfolded just as He prophesied beginning with the Jewish rebillion of 66 AD and ending with the Temple, the City of Jerusalem being totally destroyed by the Roman Empire while the nation of Biblicial Isarel and its Jewish people would be scattered all over the world.......never to be made whole again, (just as promised in the O.T. when Israel rejected the righteousness of God, God promised to destroy Israel anytime it failed to live up to the covenant of promise -- Lev. 26:27-39).......when it did it would be broken up like a broken potters Jar never to be made whole/complete again, they would cease being a nation -- Deut. 8:19-20, a broken potters vessel -- Jer. 19:7-13), losing the government, their tribal ID....all because they rejected Jesus as the Son of God.......their eyes were blinded by their own hatred. The only way for any person claiming Jewish heritage to be saved is to "willingly" open their eyes and be baptized into the nation of Christianity where neither Jew nor Greek exist......as they become one/equal and heirs to the promise made to father Abraham. (Gal. 3:28-29)

 

[surada]

No..........it was Jesus that "prohesied" about a future event by referencing Daniel and comparing the 2. Jesus declared that the Desolation of Jerusalem, the Temple, and eventually Israel itself would desolated by a surrounding army, and this would take place within that "very generation of Jews" (Matthew 23:34-39) He confronted the Jewish leaders for killing and flogging God's prophets while not obeying the Word of God (the Law) but obeying the traditions of man. He detailed how the desolation of the Temple and Jerusalem would come in Chapter 24.

And His predictions unfolded just as He prophesied beginning with the Jewish rebillion of 66 AD and ending with the Temple, the City of Jerusalem being totally destroyed by the Roman Empire while the nation of Biblicial Isarel and its Jewish people would be scattered all over the world.......never to be made whole again, (just as promised in the O.T. when Israel rejected the righteousness of God, God promised to destroy Israel anytime it failed to live up to the covenant of promise -- Lev. 26:27-39).......when it did it would be broken up like a broken potters Jar never to be made whole/complete again, they would cease being a nation -- Deut. 8:19-20, a broken potters vessel -- Jer. 19:7-13), losing the government, their tribal ID....all because they rejected Jesus as the Son of God.......their eyes were blinded by their own hatred. The only way for any person claiming Jewish heritage to be saved is to "willingly" open their eyes and be baptized into the nation of Christianity were neither Jew nor Greek exist......as they become one/equal and heirs to the promise made to father Abraham. (Gal. 3:28-29)

Thanks. You get it. Daniel didn't prophesy.. Jesus did.

 

[Cougarbear]

Again with the deflection? Paul meet the qualifications to be an Apostle of Christ.............He was witness to both the ministry of Jesus, (while he was persecuting the infant religion, in fact Saul/Paul was present when Stephen was put to death (Acts 7:54-60). Christians were not known as Christians but followers of Jesus during the time Paul/Saul was witnessing that ministry......they were called Christians first at Antioch (Acts 11:26), after the gentile conversations of Chapter 10. Paul approved the death of Stephen-- Acts 8:1 as well as being divinely choosen by Jesus whose presence was so great when He personally chose Saul to be an Apostle to the Gentile nations.......that it blinded Saul, who had to be divinely healed to remove the scales from his eyes. Paul was then a witness as to the resurrection of Jesus. How many modern day Apostles were blinded by the glory of Jesus Christ and healed by the Spirit? Document these divine appointments.........of those appointed "divinely".........just how many claim to be Apostle in your cults structure organization? And how many of these modern apostles were appointed by divine endorsement.......instead of an endorsement from the President of your cult?

If you actually read and study the scripture you can comprehend that the number of Apostles was to remain at twelve with consistency. After Judas........there was a divine appointment based upon the prayers made to the Holy Spirit to guide the selection of another (Acts).......the number went back to 12, then of course the scriptures declare that James was killed (leaving another vacancy). -- Acts 12:1-2 Why must the number remain at "12"..........Jesus personally picked 12 desciples to be His Apostles (messengers) -- Luke 6:12-16.

Paul stated clearly that a time would come when 12 Apostles and their signs and wonders would cease to be required (1 Cor. 13)........today all that remains as gifts of the spirit are, Faith, Hope and Love/Charity.......of these Charity is the greatest.

Jesus personally selected Saul to become the Apostle Paul before the death of James, (Acts 9:10-16, Acts 22:12, 16,21)but Paul did not accept/join the others of the apostleship until after the death of James. (Gal. 1:15-19) ....Paul went away for 3 years.

The difference between the 12 Apostles of Chirst in the 1st century and your modern day aposltes? "I (Paul) have been a fool! You forced me to it, for I ought to have been commended by you. For I was not inferior to at all to these apostles, even though I am nothing; THE SIGNS OF A TRUE APOSLTE WERE PERFORMED AMONG YOU...with great patience." (2 Cor.12:11-12)

An apostle possessed the signs of a true apostle..........with the ability to preform miraculous acts in order to confirm the word of God. There are no such signs today. Again where is the evidence of any miraculous acts being performed by Joseph Smith or any so called Apostle from 1830 to date...........document these miraculous "signs and wonders". Do you actually expect anyone to accept a "claim" without any supporting evidence that the Book of Mormon was inspired of God? Why not the Koran.........the not the "new world translation" from the JWs........or the extra books used by the RCC?

The Bible is the only record that has not been refuted by man.....via an application of real science or by history actual......the others to Include the Book of Mormon are laced with untruths when compared to the Holy Bible.

Paul was not a witness of the ministry. He knew nothing about it. He persecuted Christians after Christ died. Not before. It matters not. The only thing as you said is that an apostle or prophet must witness the resurrected Jesus Christ and testify of the divinity of Jesus Christ as Lord, Son of the Father and a member of the Godhead. Joseph Smith and all the apostles after him testify of this divinity of the resurrected Christ. You don't get to choose the method of this divine providence of apostles. That is purely up to Jesus Christ. I'm sorry your Church is dead with no one to lead them that has this divine ability through apostles and prophets. Paul himself wrote to the Ephesians that "The Church" must be founded with apostles and prophets. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is founded upon apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone. The Holy Ghost bears witness to this. I know the Holy Ghost. We are close friends. And, you aren't the Holy Ghost.

 

[Cougarbear]

It is very simple.

Joseph Smith is a false prophet because he taught a false gospel, as warned against all over the epistles. That's first.

Second his prophecies from God have been altered and contradicted how many times in 200 years?

So no. Two fails.

Not one of the gospel doctrines are false. Pick one.

 

[Cougarbear]

The Bible stories are often adapted from older cultures around them. The Jews were a Canaanite tribe who came to believe in one God. They would have known the story of Danel.

Danel - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ummm...no. Israel was not a Canaanite tribe. Abraham did not descend from Cam so by like token he was not a Canaanite, he only moved to Canaan when told him ...

 

[JustAGuy1]

Daniel didn't predict there would be a second Abomination of Desolation. Jesus referenced history.

Did Jesus tell you that?

 

[Clyde 154]

Paul was not a witness of the ministry. He knew nothing about it. He persecuted Christians after Christ died. Not before. It matters not. The only thing as you said is that an apostle or prophet must witness the resurrected Jesus Christ and testify of the divinity of Jesus Christ as Lord, Son of the Father and a member of the Godhead. Joseph Smith and all the apostles after him testify of this divinity of the resurrected Christ. You don't get to choose the method of this divine providence of apostles. That is purely up to Jesus Christ. I'm sorry your Church is dead with no one to lead them that has this divine ability through apostles and prophets. Paul himself wrote to the Ephesians that "The Church" must be founded with apostles and prophets. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is founded upon apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone. The Holy Ghost bears witness to this. I know the Holy Ghost. We are close friends. And, you aren't the Holy Ghost.

Again......deflection without addressing the historical corruption of your cult? But really do you think that you can persecute a ministry without witnessing it? Even Christ Jesus asked of Saul...."Saul, Saul why are you persecuting "ME" (Jesus)"? -- Acts 9:4 Logically how could Saul "persecute" a dead person with no ministry existing? Again......the actual content of the Word of God refutes your ad hominem opinion.

What's strange about your cult? You declare the Holy Bible has been corrupted yet you parrot over 25000 words from it in a direct verbatim manner........mistakes of transmission/copy included in your supposed Inspired Book of Mormon.......and you then claim that your cult was founded upon the same principles included in the Holy Bible and the New Testament from the KJV of the Bible? You claim that Joseph Smith was visted by God and Jesus.......yet that same Holy Bible declares that no one can actually see God .......Jesus was visible only until His ascension into heaven to sit at the Right Hand of the Father ruling His church from the throne of David (Acts)

Read be enlighted, "No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son (of the Father impiled), who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him." John 1:18 Yet your Cult claims that both the Father and the Son paid Joseph Smith a personal visit on earth..........Smith saw someone that no one else in history has ever seen without going Blind from the Glory of God? Even when Paul was converted.........Paul did not SEE GOD/JESUS, ".......a light from Heaven flashed around him (Saul/Paul)....he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul why do you persecute ME.....(not the ministry but Jesus)" -- Acts 9:4 Saul was blinded....he had to be lead away by the hand (Acts 9:8)

Just how did Joesph Smith receive a visit from the Father and the Son......in person, when the glory of Jesus Christ...the light Paul witnessed, blinded Saul, not even Paul has seen the Father....but Joseph Smith witnessed both the Father and the Son as a light from above.......without going blind a voice came, that said, This is My beloved Son...HEAR HIM! Really........that sounds strangely familiar.........with the exception that Smith tossed in the Father's Voice..........its coppied from Acts 9 and Matthew 3.

Smith was simply PLAYING CHURCH and attempted to create his own cult..........the difference between Saul's conversion and Smith supposed enlightenment from the Father? Paul declares there would come a time when there would be no requirement for the supernatural to continue.......when the infant Church matured into adulthood.


Paul's passage addresses your cult to perfection, Paul knew the age of miracles was rapidly coming to an end......it would come when that which is perfect arrived.........Telos, whole/complete, the perfect law of liberty (1 Cor.13)....when the foundation of the church was completed and the written word of God was completed in the 1st century.


Paul stated clearly, "When I was a child (infant, immature), I used to speak as a child, think like a child, reason like a child; When I became a man (mature, fully grown), I did away with childish things (Paul was chastising some of the members of the young church at Corinth........for abusing some of the gifts he has bestowed upon them by the laying on of the hands of an aposlte......they were acting like children, even in formal meetings....speaking in tongues (different languages when no one was present that required translation...etc.,) For now we see in a mirror, dimily, but then face to face (looking into a mirror during that time period distored the reflection as mirrors were made from polished metal.......Paul explains what he has just stated).........now I know in part (no one possessed all the knowledge of the truth at that time....it was divided up among the infant churches membership who received divine knowlede.....each receiving a different truth from the Holy Spirit......until that knowledge became WHOLE/COMPELTE and constituted the perfect law of liberty.......Telos, understanding completely/whole).....but then I will know fully..........Paul ends the passage by explaining after the age of miracles is no longer required and mankind has the completed perfect law of liberty..........there remains only 3 gifts of the Spirit, Faith, Hope and Charity or Love." -- 1 Cor. 13:11-13


Your cult is still PLAYING CHURCH........copying its very foundation from the King James Version of the Bible...........and pretending to be lead by divinely appointed Apostles of Christ, without the signs of a true Apostle evident anywhere.


You still have not provided any documentation of any miracle that has ever been verified by eyewitnesses (even hostle eyewitnesses at times)..........and proven to be true. Show me the dead your apostles have raised, the blind that received their sight.......that lame made to walk again after being born crippled........

You make an adhominem personal claim that YOU KNOW THE HOLY GHOST? Really, that is your evidence?


Provide this evidence of the signs of a true apostle......as I have stated, you don't have to leave your brains at the door......unless you are joing a cult.

 

[Cougarbear]

Again......deflection without addressing the historical corruption of your cult? But really do you think that you can persute a ministry without witnessing it? Even Christ Jesus asked of Saul...."Saul, Saul why are you persecuting "ME" (Jesus)"? -- Acts 9:4 Logically how could Saul "persecute" a dead person with no ministry existing? Again......the actual content of the Word of God refutes your ad hominem opinion.

What's strange about your cult? You declare the Holy Bible has been corrupted yet you parrot over 25000 words from it in a direct verbatim manner........mistakes of transmission/copy included in your supposed Inspired Book of Mormon.......and you then claim that your cult was founded upon the same principles included in the Holy Bible and the New Testament from the KJV of the Bible? You claim that Joseph Smith was visted by God and Jesus.......yet that same Holy Bible declares that no one can actually see God .......Jesus was visible only until His ascension into heaven to sit at the Right Hand of the Father ruling His church from the throne of David (Acts)

Read be enlighted, "No one has seen God at any time; God the only Son (of the Father impiled), who is in the arms of the Father, He has explained Him." John 1:18 Yet your Cult claims that both the Father and the Son paid Joseph Smith a personal visit on earth..........Smith saw someone that no one else in history has ever seen without going Blind from the Glory of God? Even when Paul was converted.........Paul did not SEE GOD/JESUS, ".......a light from Heaven flashed around him (Saul/Paul)....he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul why do you persecute ME.....(not the ministry but Jesus)" -- Acts 9:4 Saul was blinded....he had to be lead away by the hand (Acts 9:8)

Just how did Joesph Smith receive a visit from the Father and the Son......in person, when the glory of Jesus Christ...the light Paul witnessed, blinded Saul, not even Paul has seen the Father....but Joseph Smith witnessed both the Father and the Son as a light from above.......without going blind a voice came, that said, This is My beloved Son...HEAR HIM! Really........that sounds strangely familiar.........with the exception that Smith tossed in the Father's Voice..........its coppied from Acts 9.

You remind me of the Saduccees. Claiming cultism which thank you. That puts us in the same as Jesus Christ’s cult in his days. You do the same claim of Jesus Christ but deny the power there of. Paul did see the Father and Son but not with his earthly eyes. Same with Joseph Smith. Both saw God with their spiritual eyes. After their experience both physical bodies were drained. Yes, they experienced the exact same things. This, both were apostles. Apostles are prophets, seers and revelators. Both happened.

 

[Cougarbear]

and Mormons get to bang lots of teenage chicks...win

To have a temple recommend, we cannot have sexual relations of any kind with someone other than our legally and lawfully spouse. So, your statement is one of hate speech.

 

[SweetSue92]

To have a temple recommend, we cannot have sexual relations of any kind with someone other than our legally and lawfully spouse. So, your statement is one of hate speech.

Joseph Smith instituted multiple marriage so he could do just that. That's not hate speech; it's the truth. You claiming it's hate speech because you don't like it doesn't make it hate speech, and does not intimidate me or, I would guess, anyone else.

 

[Cougarbear]

Joseph Smith instituted multiple marriage so he could do just that. That's not hate speech; it's the truth. You claiming it's hate speech because you don't like it doesn't make it hate speech, and does not intimidate me or, I would guess, anyone else.

Your statement is still one of hate speech. Repent. And no, he did not have sexual intercourse with an underage child. You are wrong and spreading false accusations and rumors. The Bible prohibits rumormongering but you people still do it. Fascinating.