Zone1 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the only true and living Church today

[SweetSue92]

Your statement is still one of hate speech. Repent. And no, he did not have sexual intercourse with an underage child. You are wrong and spreading false accusations and rumors. The Bible prohibits rumormongering but you people still do it. Fascinating.

When the truth is relabeled "hate speech" you know you have lost.

Joseph Smith had 27 wives (!) from ages 14 (!) to 53.

 

[Cougarbear]

When the truth is relabeled "hate speech" you know you have lost.

Joseph Smith had 27 wives (!) from ages 14 (!) to 53.

Again, you are spreading lies by rumormongering. You said that he had sexual relations with underage girls. No, he did not. There is proof he did not but you just take the word of an anti-mormon hate mongering person and won't put some effort into finding out by studying both sides of any issue. Typical leftist liberal actually. It's funny you would use the "relabeled" attack as a liberal. No, what you are doing is hate speech. You are free to do so because we have free speech in this country. Or, we did before 2021 and Joe Biden.
The girl who was 14 specifically wrote in her diary they had no sexual relations. It was purposed by her father and mother to be sealed to Joseph Smith. In those days, the sealing concept was not well understood and developed line upon line, precept upon precept as time moved on. Heck men were being sealed to the Prophet too. There was no sex going on. But, will you change your attacks? Probably not.

 

[presonorek]

Joseph Smith was not the only one to have seen and handled the gold plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated, see Which persons may have seen or handled the gold plates?

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHT WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

I would have signed that document too if Joseph Smith threatened me with my life.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I would have signed that document too if Joseph Smith threatened me with my life.

you are a liar provide evidence that happened.

 

[Cougarbear]

I would have signed that document too if Joseph Smith threatened me with my life.

Ummm...what about after Joseph died? See, you are spreading false witness rumors that have never been true. Again, on their death beds (that means they are going to die very soon) they did not change their testimonies. So, that shoots your hate speech down.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ummm...what about after Joseph died? See, you are spreading false witness rumors that have never been true. Again, on their death beds (that means they are going to die very soon) they did not change their testimonies. So, that shoots your hate speech down.

Yup Smith died before them I am pretty sure

 

[presonorek]

you are a liar provide evidence that happened.

I can’t prove it but you can try threatening me with murder if I don’t sign a piece of paper that says I seen magical golden plates. It sounds like a fair deal. I keep my life. You get your signatures. It just seems like that is something I would do in that situation.

 

[presonorek]

Ummm...what about after Joseph died? See, you are spreading false witness rumors that have never been true. Again, on their death beds (that means they are going to die very soon) they did not change their testimonies. So, that shoots your hate speech down.

Joseph Smith had his own military. I’m pretty sure he needed them to kill dissenters from time to time. Even after Joseph Smith died there would still be a need to maintain unity or else the organization would have died off with the leader. Most new religions don’t outlive their founder. There were more persuasive forces at work than just Joseph Smith’s amazing charisma.

Scientology has survived its founder as well. They use very persuasive tactics to keep their followers in line.

I have no doubt at all that Joseph Smith made use of violence to maintain order within his organization. This would have been preserved after he died if those higher ups wanted to keep their positions in Brigham Young’s Army.

 

[onefour1]

Joseph Smith had his own military. I’m pretty sure he needed them to kill dissenters from time to time. Even after Joseph Smith died there would still be a need to maintain unity or else the organization would have died off with the leader. Most new religions don’t outlive their founder. There were more persuasive forces at work than just Joseph Smith’s amazing charisma.

Scientology has survived its founder as well. They use very persuasive tactics to keep their followers in line.

I have no doubt at all that Joseph Smith made use of violence to maintain order within his organization. This would have been preserved after he died if those higher ups wanted to keep their positions in Brigham Young’s Army.

Did you threaten your wife and kids with death so that they would stay with you? I doubt it. But I could make that same argument without evidence just as you are. So, there are approximately 17 million members of the church today. Are they all being threatened to believe in the church or else? I certainly have never been threatened. There is much more to the church than you give Joseph Smith credit for. Could it be that these people who gave their signatures as witnesses actually witnessed what they saw and handled?

 

[presonorek]

Did you threaten your wife and kids with death so that they would stay with you? I doubt it. But I could make that same argument without evidence just as you are. So, there are approximately 17 million members of the church today. Are they all being threatened to believe in the church or else? I certainly have never been threatened. There is much more to the church than you give Joseph Smith credit for. Could it be that these people who gave their signatures as witnesses actually witnessed what they saw and handled?

No. If the plates existed they would be valuable historical archives. There were no plates. Perhaps these guys fraudulently signed documents of their own Freewill. That doesn’t mean these mean we’re being truthful.

 

[SweetSue92]

Again, you are spreading lies by rumormongering. You said that he had sexual relations with underage girls. No, he did not. There is proof he did not but you just take the word of an anti-mormon hate mongering person and won't put some effort into finding out by studying both sides of any issue. Typical leftist liberal actually. It's funny you would use the "relabeled" attack as a liberal. No, what you are doing is hate speech. You are free to do so because we have free speech in this country. Or, we did before 2021 and Joe Biden.
The girl who was 14 specifically wrote in her diary they had no sexual relations. It was purposed by her father and mother to be sealed to Joseph Smith. In those days, the sealing concept was not well understood and developed line upon line, precept upon precept as time moved on. Heck men were being sealed to the Prophet too. There was no sex going on. But, will you change your attacks? Probably not.

You can't hide behind the "hate speech" label, as much as you might want to.

Joseph Smith had 27 wives. He likely brought back OT polygamy because he just simply wanted 27 wives.

Ew.

 

[Cougarbear]

Joseph Smith had his own military. I’m pretty sure he needed them to kill dissenters from time to time. Even after Joseph Smith died there would still be a need to maintain unity or else the organization would have died off with the leader. Most new religions don’t outlive their founder. There were more persuasive forces at work than just Joseph Smith’s amazing charisma.

Scientology has survived its founder as well. They use very persuasive tactics to keep their followers in line.

I have no doubt at all that Joseph Smith made use of violence to maintain order within his organization. This would have been preserved after he died if those higher ups wanted to keep their positions in Brigham Young’s Army.

You are pretty sure of what? Prove it. No, no one died leaving the Church. No one died attacking the Church either, ever. Did people protect their lives and property like any others in that time period? Of course. When the Mob killed Joseph Smith, where is this army of yours that shot and killed the Mob? There weren't any. The only ones doing the killing were dissenters and haters like yourself. But, this had nothing to do with your statement that I obviously answered so well that you have to move the goal post.

 

[Cougarbear]

You can't hide behind the "hate speech" label, as much as you might want to.

Joseph Smith had 27 wives. He likely brought back OT polygamy because he just simply wanted 27 wives.

Ew.

Or, as Abraham, he was directed to do so. In any event, I'm sure you are good with men with men and women with women. Heck, I bet you are good with creating eunuchs as well with this transgenderism. Yet, if a man wants 2 wives and the wives are good with it, somehow this is perverse? Would you publicly attack Islam about having more than one wife? I don't know how many wives he has as only one can be registered. I know again because of the lack of communication abilities and understanding of the sealing for eternity at the time, for decades women (and some men) were being sealed to Joseph Smith before and after his death. But, once again with Mormon bashers and haters, they have to move the goal post and throw out red herrings once they have been put in their place as I did with the sex with a minor lie.

 

[surada]

Ummm...no. Israel was not a Canaanite tribe. Abraham did not descend from Cam so by like token he was not a Canaanite, he only moved to Canaan when told him ...

Abraham was from Urfa near Haran. His father made idols.

 

[Cougarbear]

Abraham was from Urfa near Haran. His father made idols.

His father was a bad person for sure. Tried to kill him. But, no, he was not of Cam to become a blood born Cannanite. You are wrong, again.

 

[surada]

His father was a bad person for sure. Tried to kill him. But, no, he was not of Cam to become a blood born Cannanite. You are wrong, again.

They were a Canaanite tribe who turned to monotheism. Most of their stories came from the Ugarit and from Sumer. It's a shame your church won't allow you to learn about the Dead Sea scrolls, the Nag Hammadi, the Ugarit at Ras Shamra, the Code of Hammurabi or the tablets at Dilmun.

 

[onefour1]

The Geneology of Abraham

Genesis 11:10–28

Old Testament

10 ¶ These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27 ¶ Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

 

[surada]

The Geneology of Abraham

Genesis 11:10–28

Old Testament

10 ¶ These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:
11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:
13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:
15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:
17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:
19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:
21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:
23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:
25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.
26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
27 ¶ Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

There was no Ur of the Chaldeans in the time of Abraham.

 

[onefour1]

There was no Ur of the Chaldeans in the time of Abraham.

Genesis 11:28
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

According to the Biblical record, Terah, Abraham's Father, lived in the land of Ur of the Chaldees when his son Haran died. Abraham was likely there with his Father and brothers. What makes you disbelieve the Bible?

Where was Ur of the Chaldees?​

 

[surada]

Genesis 11:28
28 And Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees.

According to the Biblical record, Terah, Abraham's Father, lived in the land of Ur of the Chaldees when his son Haran died. Abraham was likely there with his Father and brothers. What makes you disbelieve the Bible?

The stories were written down 800 years after the death of Moses. There was no Ur of the Chaldees. It would have been under water until the river changed course.