Zone1 The Book of Enoch...How should Christians think about it, and why does it matter?

[surada]

Liar! That’s just the earliest found. Aaron scribed it. Much was learned orally but was written down.

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian exile.

 

[sealybobo]

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian exile.

I watched a show on who wrote the bible. That is so debatable. And many writings were taken out. So a king decided what went into the bible our ancestors read. Hundreds of years after the events.

By the fifth century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian biblical canons, and it is now regarded as scripture only by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the great-grandfather of Noah.[1][2] The Book of Enoch contains unique material on the origins of demons and Nephilim, why some angels fell from heaven, an explanation of why the Genesis flood was morally necessary, and a prophetic exposition of the thousand-year reign of the Messiah. Three books are traditionally attributed to Enoch, including the distinct works 2 Enoch and 3 Enoch. None of the three books are considered to be canonical scripture by the majority of Jewish or Christian church bodies.

Did you know the year 2024 is off by 2 or 3 years? It should be 2021 give or take. The people who wrote the bible got it wrong.

 

[Cougarbear]

Genesis and Exodus were written after the Babylonian exile.

That’s the earliest written record. The Assyrians came in earlier and carried away 85% of Israel with their records and destroyed what was written down. People of Judah and Benjamin memorized them as well as having records. However, those were destroyed by Babylonia when they trounced them for their iniquities. Ezra and Nehemiah began the process as they came back. Many attempted to keep written records like genealogy so as to prove they are if Aaron, Levi for the priesthood. There has been so much written records lost because of conquering war that only an idiot would claim the things you do.

 

[Libby von H]

The Book of Enoch is somewhat controversial. Obviously there are different ideas among Christians about the book of Enoch.

I'm going to share a video that's an excellent presentation on the Book of Enoch. But for those who don't want to watch an hour-long video, I'll post a few points that are brought up in this video.

What Christians think about the Book of Enoch can be summed up into 3 basic views...

1. There is the view that the entire Book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, in other words not actually written by Enoch, and therefore not trustworthy.
   
   
2. There is a second view, on the other extreme, that all of it is actually from Enoch, and therefore authoritative and trustworthy.
   
   
3. And the third view is that some of it (at least the first 19 chapters) is authoritative, because the Bible itself attests to it, and many early church fathers also attest to it.

I personally think the best and safest view is the third view, that some of it, namely the first 19 chapters, IS authentic and therefore authoritative.

Why should any Christian hold that view, if this book was not included in the Canon?

Well, for one thing, many Christians hold an outdated view that the entire book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, because before 1976, that was the near-consensus position.

However, ever since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that changed. Why? Because before 1976, the Book of Enoch was thought to be newer than the New Testament. But then in the Dead Sea Scrolls, a manuscript was found that predated the entire New Testament, so that showed that the previous position was exactly backwards.

The Epistle of Jude, which previously was thought to be the basis for 1 Enoch is now best understood as a clear testimony for the authenticity of the Book of Enoch.

Also, many of the early church fathers attested to the authenticity of the stories in the Book of Enoch, such as the position that Genesis 6 refers to the angels who sinned and mated with human women, which created the Nephilim (giants.) In their writings, these church fathers treated the Book of Enoch as authoritative.

In fact, although in today's world many Christians hold the view that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to the line of Seth, the view that the Sons of God were angels (who fell from grace) is the view of antiquity, it was the near-unanimous consensus prior to the 5th century, when the Sethite view started. You can read more about that in this article.

There's much more that can be said here, but for anyone who is interested in this topic, I highly recommend watching the video I'm going to post below.

Why does this even matter? Well, the book of Enoch talks about a number of very interesting things, including the Nephilim, and the origin of many practices that people (including Christians) partake in every day, without even knowing the origin of those practices. So, if we hold the position that the book of Enoch is at least partially authentic, which is the most logical position for Christians to hold, since Jude and Jesus Himself attest to it, then I believe Christians should not reject it, or avoid looking into it because they don't know what to think about it.

I don't want to do it now but later I want to bring up something that is referenced in the Book of Enoch that is very important because it has to do with something people do everyday. I'm actually putting together a video on that, so when it's done I'll share it here for anyone who is interested.

I don't expect the non-believers here to believe the Book of Enoch, but for the Christians here... what are your thoughts on the Book of Enoch? Again, I really hope you take the time to watch this video, as Craig goes into it in much more depth, and in a very clear, methodical way.

(The first few minutes is just announcements and stuff, and also waiting for the livestream to start, so I'm going to skip that part and embed this video starting a few minutes into the video)

As is easily seen in the excellent books by James Kugel, the Jews (like all humans) speculated on what they had quesitons about, whether with revelation or data or not, and Enoch was one result. You are wrong , at least for Catholics, Canonical status NEVER depended on establishing the author and if the lost writings we know of from St Paul surfaced they would not be Scripture by that fact.
Now the biggest proponendt of Enoch would have to be St Augustine but with 2 caveats that he himself gave

1) He went with the Church's decision on its canonicity
2)He did not practice Sola Scriptura or Private Interpretation so what Enoch says would never stand just on what St A said.

For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.

– Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, Chapter 5

 

[Cougarbear]

As is easily seen in the excellent books by James Kugel, the Jews (like all humans) speculated on what they had quesitons about, whether with revelation or data or not, and Enoch was one result. You are wrong , at least for Catholics, Canonical status NEVER depended on establishing the author and if the lost writings we know of from St Paul surfaced they would not be Scripture by that fact.
Now the biggest proponendt of Enoch would have to be St Augustine but with 2 caveats that he himself gave

1) He went with the Church's decision on its canonicity
2)He did not practice Sola Scriptura or Private Interpretation so what Enoch says would never stand just on what St A said.


– Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, Chapter 5

With most churches, cannonized scripture goes through a Church process. As LDS, we also have a process by which our Church leaders go through followed by the entire active members raising their right hands (if no right hand then their left) and sustaining the script as cannonized and official doctrine for the world.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

As is easily seen in the excellent books by James Kugel, the Jews (like all humans) speculated on what they had quesitons about, whether with revelation or data or not, and Enoch was one result. You are wrong , at least for Catholics, Canonical status NEVER depended on establishing the author and if the lost writings we know of from St Paul surfaced they would not be Scripture by that fact.
Now the biggest proponendt of Enoch would have to be St Augustine but with 2 caveats that he himself gave

1) He went with the Church's decision on its canonicity
2)He did not practice Sola Scriptura or Private Interpretation so what Enoch says would never stand just on what St A said.


– Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus Called Fundamental, Chapter 5

Another worshipper of that idol loving cult.

Not all recognize it's authority. I wish Catholics could understand that

 

[sealybobo]

Another worshipper of that idol loving cult.

Not all recognize it's authority. I wish Catholics could understand that

The four canonical gospels—Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John—were all composed within the Roman Empire 120 C.E as biographies of Jesus of Nazareth. Written a generation after the death of Jesus
none of the four gospel writers were eyewitnesses to the ministry of Jesus.

Then think about the corrupt Catholic Church during the dark ages. Once one king came out with his edited version of the bible and made it the official bible of the country, then every king wanted their own version. How edited this book is we will never know.

Did Jesus marry or date Mary Magdeline? That story has been edited out.

When Jesus said he was the Son of Man, did he mean he's just like you and me or that he was the messiah? Son of man was something they said back then as to say I'm a person. A son of god.

 

[Meriweather]

Not all recognize it's authority. I wish Catholics could understand that

Grin. You think we are oblivious to the fact not all are Catholic?

 

[surada]

I watched a show on who wrote the bible. That is so debatable. And many writings were taken out. So a king decided what went into the bible our ancestors read. Hundreds of years after the events.

By the fifth century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian biblical canons, and it is now regarded as scripture only by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the great-grandfather of Noah.[1][2] The Book of Enoch contains unique material on the origins of demons and Nephilim, why some angels fell from heaven, an explanation of why the Genesis flood was morally necessary, and a prophetic exposition of the thousand-year reign of the Messiah. Three books are traditionally attributed to Enoch, including the distinct works 2 Enoch and 3 Enoch. None of the three books are considered to be canonical scripture by the majority of Jewish or Christian church bodies.

Did you know the year 2024 is off by 2 or 3 years? It should be 2021 give or take. The people who wrote the bible got it wrong.

All that is reasonable.

Enoch was a son of Cain. His father named a city after him. Must have been lots of other people people on earth before Adam and Eve.

Then there's another Enoch. I get them confused, but I think they are both fictional.

 

[surada]

The Book of Enoch is somewhat controversial. Obviously there are different ideas among Christians about the book of Enoch.

I'm going to share a video that's an excellent presentation on the Book of Enoch. But for those who don't want to watch an hour-long video, I'll post a few points that are brought up in this video.

What Christians think about the Book of Enoch can be summed up into 3 basic views...

1. There is the view that the entire Book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, in other words not actually written by Enoch, and therefore not trustworthy.
   
   
2. There is a second view, on the other extreme, that all of it is actually from Enoch, and therefore authoritative and trustworthy.
   
   
3. And the third view is that some of it (at least the first 19 chapters) is authoritative, because the Bible itself attests to it, and many early church fathers also attest to it.

I personally think the best and safest view is the third view, that some of it, namely the first 19 chapters, IS authentic and therefore authoritative.

Why should any Christian hold that view, if this book was not included in the Canon?

Well, for one thing, many Christians hold an outdated view that the entire book of Enoch is pseudepigrapha, because before 1976, that was the near-consensus position.

However, ever since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that changed. Why? Because before 1976, the Book of Enoch was thought to be newer than the New Testament. But then in the Dead Sea Scrolls, a manuscript was found that predated the entire New Testament, so that showed that the previous position was exactly backwards.

The Epistle of Jude, which previously was thought to be the basis for 1 Enoch is now best understood as a clear testimony for the authenticity of the Book of Enoch.

Also, many of the early church fathers attested to the authenticity of the stories in the Book of Enoch, such as the position that Genesis 6 refers to the angels who sinned and mated with human women, which created the Nephilim (giants.) In their writings, these church fathers treated the Book of Enoch as authoritative.

In fact, although in today's world many Christians hold the view that the "Sons of God" in Genesis 6 refers to the line of Seth, the view that the Sons of God were angels (who fell from grace) is the view of antiquity, it was the near-unanimous consensus prior to the 5th century, when the Sethite view started. You can read more about that in this article.

There's much more that can be said here, but for anyone who is interested in this topic, I highly recommend watching the video I'm going to post below.

Why does this even matter? Well, the book of Enoch talks about a number of very interesting things, including the Nephilim, and the origin of many practices that people (including Christians) partake in every day, without even knowing the origin of those practices. So, if we hold the position that the book of Enoch is at least partially authentic, which is the most logical position for Christians to hold, since Jude and Jesus Himself attest to it, then I believe Christians should not reject it, or avoid looking into it because they don't know what to think about it.

I don't want to do it now but later I want to bring up something that is referenced in the Book of Enoch that is very important because it has to do with something people do everyday. I'm actually putting together a video on that, so when it's done I'll share it here for anyone who is interested.

I don't expect the non-believers here to believe the Book of Enoch, but for the Christians here... what are your thoughts on the Book of Enoch? Again, I really hope you take the time to watch this video, as Craig goes into it in much more depth, and in a very clear, methodical way.

(The first few minutes is just announcements and stuff, and also waiting for the livestream to start, so I'm going to skip that part and embed this video starting a few minutes into the video)

About Bible Prophecy

Aboutbibleprophecy.com explains Bible prophecy that has been fulfilled and prophecies that will be fulfilled during the End Times

www.aboutbibleprophecy.com

There are two people in the Bible named Enoch. One was the son of Cain and his story is told in Genesis, chapter 4.

The other Enoch was the son of Jared and the father of Methuselah. Enoch, son of Jared, lived for 365 years and his story is told in Genesis, chapter 5.

About Bible Prophecy › ...
Enoch, son of Jared - Aboutbibleprophecy.com

 

[surada]

About Bible Prophecy

Aboutbibleprophecy.com explains Bible prophecy that has been fulfilled and prophecies that will be fulfilled during the End Times

www.aboutbibleprophecy.com

There are two people in the Bible named Enoch. One was the son of Cain and his story is told in Genesis, chapter 4.

The other Enoch was the son of Jared and the father of Methuselah. Enoch, son of Jared, lived for 365 years and his story is told in Genesis, chapter 5.

About Bible Prophecy › ...
Enoch, son of Jared - Aboutbibleprophecy.com

The Book of Enoch: What is the famous biblical Apocrypha? - explainer

The Book of Enoch is one of the most well-known examples of biblical Apocrypha, but it isn't accepted by almost any Jews or Christians. Here is what you should know.

m.jpost.com