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The Big Lie

Faun

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ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"



And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.


So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....



From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.
Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."


If you people had attacked him, on the basis of your DISAGREEMENT with his opinion of who was at the rally, that would have been a legitimate disagreement, that we could debate ad nauseum.


BUT, instead you pretended that he AGREED with you, that only ws of various stripes were there, on the side of the statues, and then you clearly and purposefully LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID,

in order to support your belief that Trump was a ws.


That was a massive lie, that you held together as a group, and thus sold to the American voters.


By and large, the American voters believe(d) that Trump is/was sympathetic towards ws.


That BY itself would have a HUGE impact on the election, quite possibly changing it's outcome.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


AND, as per the op, it was not by itself.
It's what he said, loser. You're the one trying to read his mind by guessing he believed there were non-racists there; but he never said that's what he believes. That you saying g that's what he believes. It's too bad he didn't say that himself.


i quoted him repeatedly, and explicitly stating that he was not referring to the ws.


That bit where you keep tryhing to conflate ws with wacist? We all see what you are doing. Knock that bullshit off.


"Those people -- all of those people – excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."
Yes, he condemned many different groups but not all of them. He supports many hate groups, including the Proud Boys who he told to stand by; which they did for him until Insurrection Day.


You are being silly now. His meaning was clear. He was condemning the ws groups but sticking up for regular people who supported the historical statues.

And you people, instead of voicing your disagreement with his take on it,


LIED ABOUT WHAT HE SAID, AND CLAIMED HE WAS BEING SUPPORTIVE OF WS.



How many people do you think voted against Trump because they believed that he was a WS?


AND
"His meaning was clear."

Translation: you're trying to read his mind

Thanks for finally admitting that.
thumbsup.gif
For 4 years Trump said horrible things and the next day every time Correll would come here and tell us what he meant was.....


His general style is to ramble and jump around and be unclear. It invites discussion on his meaning.


IN THIS INSTANCE, he was very careful and very clear. His response was almost perfect. We have complete tapes and transcripts of everything he said. There is no doubt about what he said, or what he meant.


IN THIS INSTANCE, you people are just lying.
Nope, you're the liar. It was a racist rally conceived, sponsored, promoted, ran, and attended by racists. Trump never once indicated he believed otherwise or thought there were non-racists among that crowd.


Trump explicitly and clearly stated that he believed that there were OTHER people there, who should up for OTHER reasons.

"excuse me, I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch. Those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of Robert E. Lee." "


You people managed to sell the BIG LIE to the American People, the moderates and the non-politicals at least, that the President was a ws.


That was huge. That could likely have flipped the election right there. That was FRAUD BY DECPTION.
That's right, not all those people were neo-Nazis. Some were neo-Confederates. Some were Kkk. Some were white nationalists. Some were white supremacists. He did condemn some. He didn't condemn them all. And there was no one else there among the Unite the Right crowd. It was a racist rally and stupid of him to say there were "very fine people" on their side.


Now you are being purposefully stupid. He specifically mentioned neo-nazis and ws. His meaning was clear. He was lumping those types together and referring to them as a general grouping,


as distinct from normal, mainstream Americans who are not members of the fringe, but did show up to support historical statues.

And that you believe that there was "no one else there" is irrelevant. It is clear that Trump believed otherwise.
I just said he condemned some. But he didn't condemn all. Some of them he called, "very fine people."


I like it when you pretend to be too retarded to get a point. It makes you look retarded.



My point stands. Trump was not referring to ws when he said that, and you people lied to the American people about what he said, telling them he said teh exact opposite of what he said.

It was a huge lie, big enough to flip an election.

Thus, the election is not legitimate.

FRAUD BY DECEPTION.
Whereas you are retarded and you're not pretending. Third time I'm saying this... he condemned some, he didn't condemn all. He didn't condemn the Proud Boys nor did he condemn neo-Confederates.

So that's who he thinks are "very fine people."


Nope. It was clear from his speech that he was condemning all the ws types, as a category.


You are using your pretense of being retarded to support your lie, that he said ws are "very fine people".


Because you know that my point is correct.


Such a vile lie, could have easily swung the election. Thus, the election is not legitimate.


FRAUD BY DECEPTION.
It was clear to you because you're an idiot and a Trump fluffer. So most anything he says sounds good to you. He didn't say what you claim he meant; so all we can go by is what he said. And despite your hallucination that he was clear, he wasn't, as evidenced by him making another appearance to clear up what he said. He wouldn't have had to do that had he actually been clear. Then he put his foot in his mouth again, because he wasn't clear and had to come out a 3rd time.


Your nitpicking is absurd. He was completely clear. You people are just lyign the BIG LIE.
LOL

It's not nitpicking, ya dumbfuck. You keep stating how he was near perfect (which is Trump lingo) and how he was clear. That's obvious delusion on your part as evidenced by him having to make three trips in front of the cameras in 4 days just to clarify himself.

No one is buying your bullshit. He said what he said. That's why it hurt his character. It wasn't the news that hurt him -- it was his own words which exposed who he is.
 

sealybobo

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
:lol: Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.
If you saw a black woman wearing a t-shirt that celebrates Egyptian culture, would you think,


"stupid theocracy supporting dumbass".?
Piss poor deflection. Boo hoo, Nazis and traitors can't "celebrate their heritage". Cry me a river.


I made a point about how only one group's right to celebrate it's culture, is subject to veto by other groups.


You sort of implied that the veto is not based on race, but on politics.

SO, I offered an example of a black person, celebrating a "problematic" heritage and asked if you had a problem with that example.


That is not a deflection, it is a serious and honest test of your defense.


And your refusal to address it, is you dodging.
What you did was come up with a fake scenario to cover for the ludicrous nature of your argument. Traitors to their nation and those that commit mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage".


It's not fake. It's a hypothetical that if you answered "YES" to, would have supported your position.

BUT, you know that in our society, such historical or heritage celebrations, are fine, even if the people or places could be "problematic" by modern standards.

UNLESS, of course, you are white. THen it is not fine.


That is my point, and you have not yet addressed it.
Hypothetical means fake. You're flailing. Poor picked on white guy? Bwahahahaha.


Hypothetical does not mean fake.

How would you test your position, if not with a hypothetical?
Hypothetical - imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening:

In other words, fake. Try coming up with an ACTUAL example.

White guy, you're not a victim. Just. Stop.


Except the white guys have been the victims here. Your position is that it is because of politics not race.


So....


If you don't like me way of testing your position how would you test it?
No, they really haven't. You playing a victim does not mean white people are victimized. Southern racists are not being victimized. Nazis aren't being victimized. You've jumped Sharknado.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?

Mine would be easy to test. Show me a counter example of a group that gets treated the same, that is not white.

BOOM, I'm shown to be wrong.


But, you can't dot that. Because it doesn't happen.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?
No princess...you have to come up with a non white equivalent and you can't. Nobody is trying to put up statues of non white traitors. The fact that Nazis and traitors to their country can't "celebrate their heritage" is because they were traitors and committed mass genocide, not because they are white. You're being a ridiculous caricature.
Black southerners would love to erect a statue of Nat Turner. Like Robert e lee is a hero to white southerners, nat is a hero to blacks.

No matter what nat did he was justified. He was made a slave by guys like Robert e lee. Robert e lee was not justified to own slaves.
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern whites were traitors to their nation and they lost.


Correct. And afterwards, the nation as a whole chose a policy of reconciliation. Part of that was the acceptance of the South celebrating it's Southern and/or Confederate heritage as a harmless expression of regional pride as part of the larger national Identity.


Today, under the concept of multiculturalism, every culture is expected to live together in harmony, with each of us, retaining and celebrating our distinct differences while tolerating the celebrations and cultures of others.


EXCEPT, for whites. Sometimes, their celebrations are deemed BAD and they are NOT allowed to do it.
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
:lol: Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.
If you saw a black woman wearing a t-shirt that celebrates Egyptian culture, would you think,


"stupid theocracy supporting dumbass".?
Piss poor deflection. Boo hoo, Nazis and traitors can't "celebrate their heritage". Cry me a river.


I made a point about how only one group's right to celebrate it's culture, is subject to veto by other groups.


You sort of implied that the veto is not based on race, but on politics.

SO, I offered an example of a black person, celebrating a "problematic" heritage and asked if you had a problem with that example.


That is not a deflection, it is a serious and honest test of your defense.


And your refusal to address it, is you dodging.
What you did was come up with a fake scenario to cover for the ludicrous nature of your argument. Traitors to their nation and those that commit mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage".


It's not fake. It's a hypothetical that if you answered "YES" to, would have supported your position.

BUT, you know that in our society, such historical or heritage celebrations, are fine, even if the people or places could be "problematic" by modern standards.

UNLESS, of course, you are white. THen it is not fine.


That is my point, and you have not yet addressed it.
Hypothetical means fake. You're flailing. Poor picked on white guy? Bwahahahaha.


Hypothetical does not mean fake.

How would you test your position, if not with a hypothetical?
Hypothetical - imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening:

In other words, fake. Try coming up with an ACTUAL example.

White guy, you're not a victim. Just. Stop.


Except the white guys have been the victims here. Your position is that it is because of politics not race.


So....


If you don't like me way of testing your position how would you test it?
No, they really haven't. You playing a victim does not mean white people are victimized. Southern racists are not being victimized. Nazis aren't being victimized. You've jumped Sharknado.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?

Mine would be easy to test. Show me a counter example of a group that gets treated the same, that is not white.

BOOM, I'm shown to be wrong.


But, you can't dot that. Because it doesn't happen.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?
No princess...you have to come up with a non white equivalent and you can't. Nobody is trying to put up statues of non white traitors. The fact that Nazis and traitors to their country can't "celebrate their heritage" is because they were traitors and committed mass genocide, not because they are white. You're being a ridiculous caricature.

Oh, good one. Pretending that the ONLY bad behavior that is worthy of being banned is treason, when there was only one civil war in this countries history.

It is of course, an absurd claim. There is plenty of behavior in the past, or people or groups that we celebrate who, by modern standards had major failings.


If your position cannot be tested, it is not logical. It is a matter of blind faith on your part. Or just a big LIE.
So name them. Name a group that did anything near as bad as being traitors to their nation over a need to own other human beings.

Nazis and traitors don’t deserve reverence. It’s not hard…if you don’t support what they stood for.


Commies. Communists have a history of mass murder, and genocide and totalitarian oppression, but for some reason, they are allowed to celebrate their heritage, by wearing t-shirts and erecting statues, and celebrating May Day, and shit like that, and it is just fine.
 

sealybobo

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern whites were traitors to their nation and they lost.


Correct. And afterwards, the nation as a whole chose a policy of reconciliation. Part of that was the acceptance of the South celebrating it's Southern and/or Confederate heritage as a harmless expression of regional pride as part of the larger national Identity.


Today, under the concept of multiculturalism, every culture is expected to live together in harmony, with each of us, retaining and celebrating our distinct differences while tolerating the celebrations and cultures of others.


EXCEPT, for whites. Sometimes, their celebrations are deemed BAD and they are NOT allowed to do it.
Harmless? You continue even to this day to treat blacks like second class citizens down south. Still the poorest communities in the south are black and notice next to every wealthy white community in the south is a poor black community clearly cut off from the economic opportunities you whites have. But you let them cut your grass, work on your tobacco farms, cotton farms, maids.

And just like they hurt blue collar whites by hiring illegals, this has really hurt poor black Americans. Yes southern rich business owners hire illegals too.
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern white is not a race, ya fucking moron. You're crying like a baby over that and complaining how they're racially discriminated against but it's not because they're white. It's because of the actions of their ancestor. Again, I'm white and I do have a heritage to be proud of and no one cares.
....

Correct. Southern Whites are a subset of Whites. Southern Whites are not the only whites that get push back on their culture. Note this statue of Christopher Columbus and the liberals attacking it. But all the groups that get such pushback, are white. That is my point. Would you like to address it, or play stupid some more?

1623595434152.png
 

Correll

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
Dumbfuck, if he was clear, he wouldn't have come out 3 times to make a statement about it.

Do you ever not fluff him?

Ever??? :ack-1:


REally? Hypothetically if the media was lying it's ass off so much that people were believing he said the opposite of what he actually said, he would not come out to refute the "lies"?


Your point is absurd.


You people told a lie, such a lie that it could easily have flipped the election. Thus, teh election is not legitimate.
Dumbfuck, the media couldn't lie to anyone about this. Trump's own words are there for everyone to hear. Had the media lied, everyone would have known the media was lying. The media didn't lie -- you are. Trump never said what you claim he said. He never said he believed there were others there on the right who were not there for the Unite the Right rally.


You dumbass liar.


"you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly."
How many times are you going to point out Trump was talking about the Proud Boys and neo-Confederates but not neo-Nazis or white nationalists when he referred to them as "very fine people?"

:abgg2q.jpg:


How many times you going to pretend to be too retarded to understand he was talking about ws as a category?
As many times as you're gonna claim Trump was too retarded to know that was a racist rally, organized by racists, sponsored by racists, promoted by racists, hosted by racists and attended by racists.


Got it. You think that someone would have to be retarded to not agree with you.


That does not change the fact that you people lied and are still lying about what he said.


That means that the voters were voting, making their choice based on FALSE INFORMATION.


Fraud by deception. THe election is thus, not legitimate.
 

Correll

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
 

sealybobo

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
:lol: Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.
If you saw a black woman wearing a t-shirt that celebrates Egyptian culture, would you think,


"stupid theocracy supporting dumbass".?
Piss poor deflection. Boo hoo, Nazis and traitors can't "celebrate their heritage". Cry me a river.


I made a point about how only one group's right to celebrate it's culture, is subject to veto by other groups.


You sort of implied that the veto is not based on race, but on politics.

SO, I offered an example of a black person, celebrating a "problematic" heritage and asked if you had a problem with that example.


That is not a deflection, it is a serious and honest test of your defense.


And your refusal to address it, is you dodging.
What you did was come up with a fake scenario to cover for the ludicrous nature of your argument. Traitors to their nation and those that commit mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage".


It's not fake. It's a hypothetical that if you answered "YES" to, would have supported your position.

BUT, you know that in our society, such historical or heritage celebrations, are fine, even if the people or places could be "problematic" by modern standards.

UNLESS, of course, you are white. THen it is not fine.


That is my point, and you have not yet addressed it.
Hypothetical means fake. You're flailing. Poor picked on white guy? Bwahahahaha.


Hypothetical does not mean fake.

How would you test your position, if not with a hypothetical?
Hypothetical - imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening:

In other words, fake. Try coming up with an ACTUAL example.

White guy, you're not a victim. Just. Stop.


Except the white guys have been the victims here. Your position is that it is because of politics not race.


So....


If you don't like me way of testing your position how would you test it?
No, they really haven't. You playing a victim does not mean white people are victimized. Southern racists are not being victimized. Nazis aren't being victimized. You've jumped Sharknado.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?

Mine would be easy to test. Show me a counter example of a group that gets treated the same, that is not white.

BOOM, I'm shown to be wrong.


But, you can't dot that. Because it doesn't happen.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?
No princess...you have to come up with a non white equivalent and you can't. Nobody is trying to put up statues of non white traitors. The fact that Nazis and traitors to their country can't "celebrate their heritage" is because they were traitors and committed mass genocide, not because they are white. You're being a ridiculous caricature.
Black southerners would love to erect a statue of Nat Turner. Like Robert e lee is a hero to white southerners, nat is a hero to blacks.

No matter what nat did he was justified. He was made a slave by guys like Robert e lee. Robert e lee was not justified to own slaves.


Robert E. Lee was justified in fighting for his State. He did it very bravely and competently. Your inability to respect that, is you being a closed minded fool.
 

Correll

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?


If they put one up, would you respect a bunch of angry whites tearing it down? Or even having it torn down?
 

sealybobo

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
:lol: Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.
If you saw a black woman wearing a t-shirt that celebrates Egyptian culture, would you think,


"stupid theocracy supporting dumbass".?
Piss poor deflection. Boo hoo, Nazis and traitors can't "celebrate their heritage". Cry me a river.


I made a point about how only one group's right to celebrate it's culture, is subject to veto by other groups.


You sort of implied that the veto is not based on race, but on politics.

SO, I offered an example of a black person, celebrating a "problematic" heritage and asked if you had a problem with that example.


That is not a deflection, it is a serious and honest test of your defense.


And your refusal to address it, is you dodging.
What you did was come up with a fake scenario to cover for the ludicrous nature of your argument. Traitors to their nation and those that commit mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage".


It's not fake. It's a hypothetical that if you answered "YES" to, would have supported your position.

BUT, you know that in our society, such historical or heritage celebrations, are fine, even if the people or places could be "problematic" by modern standards.

UNLESS, of course, you are white. THen it is not fine.


That is my point, and you have not yet addressed it.
Hypothetical means fake. You're flailing. Poor picked on white guy? Bwahahahaha.


Hypothetical does not mean fake.

How would you test your position, if not with a hypothetical?
Hypothetical - imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening:

In other words, fake. Try coming up with an ACTUAL example.

White guy, you're not a victim. Just. Stop.


Except the white guys have been the victims here. Your position is that it is because of politics not race.


So....


If you don't like me way of testing your position how would you test it?
No, they really haven't. You playing a victim does not mean white people are victimized. Southern racists are not being victimized. Nazis aren't being victimized. You've jumped Sharknado.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?

Mine would be easy to test. Show me a counter example of a group that gets treated the same, that is not white.

BOOM, I'm shown to be wrong.


But, you can't dot that. Because it doesn't happen.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?
No princess...you have to come up with a non white equivalent and you can't. Nobody is trying to put up statues of non white traitors. The fact that Nazis and traitors to their country can't "celebrate their heritage" is because they were traitors and committed mass genocide, not because they are white. You're being a ridiculous caricature.
Black southerners would love to erect a statue of Nat Turner. Like Robert e lee is a hero to white southerners, nat is a hero to blacks.

No matter what nat did he was justified. He was made a slave by guys like Robert e lee. Robert e lee was not justified to own slaves.


Robert E. Lee was justified in fighting for his State. He did it very bravely and competently. Your inability to respect that, is you being a closed minded fool.
Nat turner did what he had to do. Do you blame him? Put up a statue celebrating him.
 

sealybobo

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?


If they put one up, would you respect a bunch of angry whites tearing it down? Or even having it torn down?
They wouldn’t allow it. Hence the hypocrisy
 

sealybobo

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?


If they put one up, would you respect a bunch of angry whites tearing it down? Or even having it torn down?
Yes I would get why a statue of him isn’t appropriate. It offense too many people. Same as Robert e lee
 

Seawytch

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern whites were traitors to their nation and they lost.


Correct. And afterwards, the nation as a whole chose a policy of reconciliation. Part of that was the acceptance of the South celebrating it's Southern and/or Confederate heritage as a harmless expression of regional pride as part of the larger national Identity.


Today, under the concept of multiculturalism, every culture is expected to live together in harmony, with each of us, retaining and celebrating our distinct differences while tolerating the celebrations and cultures of others.


EXCEPT, for whites. Sometimes, their celebrations are deemed BAD and they are NOT allowed to do it.
No, victim, not "whites". Traitors and perpetrators of mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage" in public. What they do on the dark web in their racist fan fictions is up to them as long as it stays there and out of the public square. Put all those monuments to traitors in a museum like the holocaust museum and set it as an example of what NOT to do.
 

Faun

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern white is not a race, ya fucking moron. You're crying like a baby over that and complaining how they're racially discriminated against but it's not because they're white. It's because of the actions of their ancestor. Again, I'm white and I do have a heritage to be proud of and no one cares.
....

Correct. Southern Whites are a subset of Whites. Southern Whites are not the only whites that get push back on their culture. Note this statue of Christopher Columbus and the liberals attacking it. But all the groups that get such pushback, are white. That is my point. Would you like to address it, or play stupid some more?

View attachment 500828
You really are retarded beyond help. They are attacked for the actions they support.
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
:lol: Yeah, you nailed it. It's because they are white, not because they were traitors to their country (southerners) or responsible for mass genocide (Nazis). You are becoming the embodiment of Poe's law.
If you saw a black woman wearing a t-shirt that celebrates Egyptian culture, would you think,


"stupid theocracy supporting dumbass".?
Piss poor deflection. Boo hoo, Nazis and traitors can't "celebrate their heritage". Cry me a river.


I made a point about how only one group's right to celebrate it's culture, is subject to veto by other groups.


You sort of implied that the veto is not based on race, but on politics.

SO, I offered an example of a black person, celebrating a "problematic" heritage and asked if you had a problem with that example.


That is not a deflection, it is a serious and honest test of your defense.


And your refusal to address it, is you dodging.
What you did was come up with a fake scenario to cover for the ludicrous nature of your argument. Traitors to their nation and those that commit mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage".


It's not fake. It's a hypothetical that if you answered "YES" to, would have supported your position.

BUT, you know that in our society, such historical or heritage celebrations, are fine, even if the people or places could be "problematic" by modern standards.

UNLESS, of course, you are white. THen it is not fine.


That is my point, and you have not yet addressed it.
Hypothetical means fake. You're flailing. Poor picked on white guy? Bwahahahaha.


Hypothetical does not mean fake.

How would you test your position, if not with a hypothetical?
Hypothetical - imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening:

In other words, fake. Try coming up with an ACTUAL example.

White guy, you're not a victim. Just. Stop.


Except the white guys have been the victims here. Your position is that it is because of politics not race.


So....


If you don't like me way of testing your position how would you test it?
No, they really haven't. You playing a victim does not mean white people are victimized. Southern racists are not being victimized. Nazis aren't being victimized. You've jumped Sharknado.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?

Mine would be easy to test. Show me a counter example of a group that gets treated the same, that is not white.

BOOM, I'm shown to be wrong.


But, you can't dot that. Because it doesn't happen.


HOW WOULD OR CAN YOUR POSITION BE TESTED?
No princess...you have to come up with a non white equivalent and you can't. Nobody is trying to put up statues of non white traitors. The fact that Nazis and traitors to their country can't "celebrate their heritage" is because they were traitors and committed mass genocide, not because they are white. You're being a ridiculous caricature.
Black southerners would love to erect a statue of Nat Turner. Like Robert e lee is a hero to white southerners, nat is a hero to blacks.

No matter what nat did he was justified. He was made a slave by guys like Robert e lee. Robert e lee was not justified to own slaves.


Robert E. Lee was justified in fighting for his State. He did it very bravely and competently. Your inability to respect that, is you being a closed minded fool.
Nat turner did what he had to do. Do you blame him? Put up a statue celebrating him.

Not my hero. Not my statue to put up. If you put it up, I will not join a mob to tear it down.

That is all that you get to expect from me, under the concept of multiculturalism.


BUT, it is something that I am supposed to be able to expect from you in return.

ANd you people are NOT living up to your side of it.


Did you always plan that?
 

Correll

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?


If they put one up, would you respect a bunch of angry whites tearing it down? Or even having it torn down?
They wouldn’t allow it. Hence the hypocrisy


Plenty of territories and local governments utterly dominated blacks. If they want to put up a thousand such statues, we whites could not stop it.
 

Correll

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IN THIS INSTANCE, you're completely full of shit. If it was as clear as you claim, Kelly, Spicer and Trump would not have spent 3 days trying to spin his comments into something completely different from what Trump actually said that day.

In the real world, his words were completely clear and since then the "spinning" has been your side lying and people calling you on it.



When President Trump WANTS to be clear, he is. There is no mistaking what he's said. When President Trump wants to "send messages" to people, he rambles, jumps around, evades and obfuscates. The guys he's sending "dog whistles" to get the message, loud and clear, and they understand.

And he was completely and explicitly clear in this case. Your talk of dog whistles is you making up shit to justify your lies. AND IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT REPORT THAT YOU THOUGHT HE WAS USING DOG WHISTLES YOU REPORTED THAT HE SAID SOMETHING, THAT HE DID NOT SAY.

Your "defense" is to a. claim he said it, and then b. to talk about what he really meant, while still refusing to admit that you lied.

YOu people are insane.


Just like the Proud Boys understood "Stand back and stand by" was not an order to "stand down", which is what Trump claimed he really meant.

That was vague, could be taken either way.


Richard Spencer, the leadership of the Proud Boys, the KKK and other far right militias listed "uniting the American white supremacist movement" as one of the goals of the rally,

Richard Spence is not part of the Proud BOys. Richard Spence's best work to date, as a leader in a fringe movement, has been to try to conflate his tiny, tiny movement with larger groups, to give his people an illusion of relevance.

Why are you supporting him? Is he your personal friend?



Charlottesville used the cover of "protecting Confederate monuments" to march past a synagogue during Friday night services, chanting "The Jews will not replace us". There were NEVER good people protecting the Confederate monuments, the entire event was a show of force by white supremacists, neo-NAZI's, and the KKK that they are in power now, and that non-white, non-Christians had better know who is in charge here.

Do you believe that everyone who supports the confederate statues is a bad person or a nazi?


Trump made a number of false statements about the rally - that the violence started because "one side" came armed with clubs and baseball bats and went after the other. That much was true, but he implied it was the "violent leftists", when in fact it was the Proud Boys who came dress in kevlar and helmets, armed with bats and clubs. They sent 30 leftist protestors to the hospital in Friday. On Saturday, one violent white supremacist drove his car into a crowd of protestors, killing one and send 16 to hospital. But Trump only talked about the "leftist violence", and one "deranged" person.

The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.

Thank you for admitting that the Left came in armed and started the violence.

Trump spoke at length about the violence from both sides, and specifically about how terrible the driver of the car was.


"Trump: "Well, I think the driver of the car is a disgrace to himself, his family, and this country. And that is -- you can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want. I would just call it as the fastest one to come up with a good verdict. That’s what I’d call it. Because there is a question: Is it murder? Is it terrorism? And then you get into legal semantics. The driver of the car is a murderer. And what he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing."


"you had a group on one side that was bad, and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group -- you had a group on the other side that came charging in, without a permit, and they were very, very violent."


"You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch."


"Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."


"and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

"Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets, and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."



Jeez, seems pretty clear he is talking about both sides being bad, not like he is trying to spin it like you claimed.






Violent right wing terrorists are characterized by Republicans as "mentally ill" individuals, while violence from leftists if portrayed as radical leftist terrorism. Just as BLM protestors are "thugs" and the right wing terrorists are protesting lockdowns are called "patriots".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Those words are really clear.


And so were Trump's. You people have no excuse for your lying.
"The Proud Boys were part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally."

Ah, so that's who Trump meant were "very fine people." Thanks for clearing that up.


Sorry typo, tHE Proud Boys were NOT part of the Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally.


Everything else stands.
Dumbfuck, a of the Proud Boys organized the event. :eusa_doh:

Are you ever not a retard?

So it's the Proud Boys Trump thinks are "very fine people." I that why he asked the Proud Boys to stand by to take care of Antifa and the left?


Kessler was a ws who infiltrated the Proud Boys and tried to get them to come to the event. The Proud Boys leadership refused, because they are not ws and did not want to get involved.

They eventually kicked Kessler out.


The Proud Boys had nothing to do with this event, on either side. They are certainly NOT who Trump was talking about.


You need to pretend to be too retarded to understand that Trump was talking about normal Americans, who support the historical statues, who are not associated with any fringe groups.
Dumbfuck, Kessler wasn't the only Proud Boy to attend. :eusa_doh:


Yeah, I heard that there was another one. You are just pushing the Big LIe.
Uh, no, moron, there were more.


The leadership of the group not only refuse to participate but barred it's members from going.


That you feel a need to lie about them being there, could just be your reflexive bias to lying, or could mean something more.


Regardless, the Proud Boys, are irrelevant to this issue, and you are a lying asshole.
Ask any black if nat turner is a hero they’ll say yes. Where’s his statue?


If they put one up, would you respect a bunch of angry whites tearing it down? Or even having it torn down?
Yes I would get why a statue of him isn’t appropriate. It offense too many people. Same as Robert e lee


Can you give an example of something like that happening, whites to blacks, in say the last twenty or thirty years?
 

Correll

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Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?
You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

I agree with the proposal to put them in museums. They are works of art


What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Nazis.


So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?

Based on race? That makes it racism and you a racist and a supporter of racism.
Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:


Correct. Seawytch was dumb to post that as an answer.
Nope, you're the moron. Nazi's are a group. Her call was correct. You're the idiot who referenced them as a race.


I did not refer to them as a race. We were discussing a racial group, and I asked for other examples of racial groups, and the lib said, "nazis". not me.

My position is that his statement was senseless idiocy. I am ignoring it. Your desire to have me defend a statement that some dishonest lib said, is denied.
Of course you referred to nazis as a race. You really are that retarded.

Correll: Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?
sealybobo: Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors
Correll: What other group is not allowed to publicly celebrate their heritage?
Seawytch: Nazis
Correll: So no other racial or ethnic or regional groups who's right to celebrate their heritage is subject to veto by others, other than whites?
Faun: Nazi isn't a race, ya moron. :cuckoo:
[emphasis added to highlight your ignorance]

See that? You didn't ask for a "racial group." You just asked for a "group." And you were given one -- nazis. And no, "Southerns" is not a racial group either. And you claim that whites can't celebrate their heritage is utter bullshit. I'm white. My heritage is from the north. I can proudly celebrate it. Southerns can't. They fucking seceded from the United States and then fought against us. Even worse, they did so to sanctify slavery. Then they got their asses kicked. There is no pride in any of that.


I dismiss your pretense of being too retarded to understand that I was referring to southern whites as a regional subset of the racial groups whites.


You are retarded, YES, I'm npot calling you a liar.


BUT, you are not THAT retarded.


(I admit that I might be being dishonest here. You are really retarded.)



The Southern Whites rose up in rebellion and fought long and hard and bravely against great odds to protect their homeland from invasion.


There is plenty to be proud of there. That you cannot grant that to your enemies is you being intellectually immature.
Southern whites were traitors to their nation and they lost.


Correct. And afterwards, the nation as a whole chose a policy of reconciliation. Part of that was the acceptance of the South celebrating it's Southern and/or Confederate heritage as a harmless expression of regional pride as part of the larger national Identity.


Today, under the concept of multiculturalism, every culture is expected to live together in harmony, with each of us, retaining and celebrating our distinct differences while tolerating the celebrations and cultures of others.


EXCEPT, for whites. Sometimes, their celebrations are deemed BAD and they are NOT allowed to do it.
No, victim, not "whites". Traitors and perpetrators of mass genocide don't get to "celebrate their heritage" in public. What they do on the dark web in their racist fan fictions is up to them as long as it stays there and out of the public square. Put all those monuments to traitors in a museum like the holocaust museum and set it as an example of what NOT to do.

What about slavery? Is slavery a good enough reason to cancel someone or something?
 

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