Hi Agnapostate:
Agnapostate was kind enough to present me with a challenge to present my opposing views to his Opening Post ‘fallibility’ claims on my China thread
here and this son of God just loves any Bible challenge. :0)
Those who believe in the infallibility of the Bible have questions to answer regarding numerous major textual errors and contradictions contained in this allegedly divinely inspired book, as well as several regarding a few books of the Bible that are evidently forgeries.
First of all, nobody on my side of this debate believes that ‘men’ are in any way infallible, but the truth of God’s Living Word
cannot be broken (
John 10:35) and represents the “
Word of Truth” (
2Tim. 2:15) “
inspired BY GOD and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
2Timonthy 3:16-17. Before I begin answering the OP thesis, claims, evidence and conclusions, the Bible that sits on my desk every day is written in Greek and includes every deviation between the
Received Text (Antiochian Manuscripts = KJV), the
Critical Text (older Egyptian Manuscripts = NASB) and the
Majority Text including the original Greek from the ‘majority’ of the Greek manuscripts.
Every student of God’s Word must realize that copyist errors are included in ‘both’ major sets of manuscripts, which creates a fork in the road for each place where the original manuscripts ‘disagree.’ Remember that you are dealing with scholars from ancient times huddled in candle-lit rooms making copy after copy of copies and
some ‘human’ errors crept into even the original manuscripts ‘before’ they became either Egyptian or Antiochian manuscript derivatives. The next important fact to realize is that our English language is constantly evolving, which means the Old Kingdom James Bible (from the Received Text) was written ‘for’ people living in the 1600’s like the New American Standard Bible (from the Critical Text) represents a translation better-suited for English speaking people today. However, the ancient Greek spoken 2000 years ago DOES NOT change, which means you must use something like a
Vine’s Expository Dictionary of NT Words (
link) to define these terms in the way that men used them 2000 years ago. We think in Hebrew from right to left in the OT and in Greek from left to right in the NT . . .
Firstly, we shall look at a few examples of passages in the Bible that were not original portions of the text and were apparently added by later scribes. These passages are primarily not present in Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest and most reliable surviving manuscripts, as well as several other manuscripts and textual witnesses of great importance. Some may claim that these false passages are not of any particular importance.
Lord-Have-Mercy . . . The Codex Vaticanus was written in the fourth century (
link) like the Codex Sinaiticus (
link). The Textus Receptus is a “
Majority Text” and Your Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are “
Minority Texts” (
link) for good ‘
horse and cart’ reasons ‘and’ the Egyptian (Critical Text) Manuscripts are even ‘older.’ Trying to pit one Greek manuscript against the other to create “
God errors” is foolishness, but we traverse every fork in the road to determine God’s will by the guidance of His Holy Spirit in our mortal bodies (
1Cor. 3:16, 6:19).
But in a book that claims to be divinely inspired and infallible, those claims obviously need to be verified, and it is difficult to claim that a book is infallible if it contains numerous errors. Moreover, even if the Bible was infallible at one point, we obviously no longer have access to the “infallible” version of the text.
We disagree. The question is about whether our Creator has the ability to
deliver ‘His’ mail or not. The answer is a definite ‘
yes,’ if you have eyes from God to see. I quote verses from the
Received Text (like
John 1:18) and from the
Critical Text (like
Matt. 28:20) and some from
my knowledge of the Greek (like
1John 5:-8 = “. . . the three are into the one.”
, because, after studying God’s Living Word for decades, then I know which manuscript is correct.
1. Mark 16:9-20: This passage is not present in the earliest and most reliable manuscripts available to us. [snip]
Wrong. Mark 16:9-20 appear in brackets in the Critical Text (Egyptian manuscripts), because those pages were simply missing; but do appear in the Textus Receptus (Antiochian Manuscripts). A conspiracy begins when the older Egyptian Manuscripts ‘claim’ to include verses that are definitely missing. My personal view is that some scholar did not care for the account of Peter and the other disciples displaying their obvious lack of faith, so he managed to lose the documentation.
:0)
2. John 7:53-8
This passage is of greater importance than Mark 16:9-20, since the text therein relates the well known story of Jesus forgiving a woman caught in adultery, and telling her Pharisee captors that “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”
Agnapostate is running through the places where Critical Text omissions appear in the older Egyptian Manuscripts, which we should expect for documents that are almost 2000 years old. The fact that a page is missing from one set of manuscripts does not constitute a ‘God error’ by any stretch of the imagination . . .
3. Acts 8:37: Though a relatively minor verse involving the evangelist Philip’s baptism of an Ethiopian, it is remarkable in that it is an extremely explicit statement of the salvation brought through belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior and acceptance of that salvation. Verse 36 notes that the Ethiopian saw some water, and asked Philip what prevented him from being baptized. Verse 37 follows thusly. “Then Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ And he answered and said, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’”
Acts 8:37 does not appear in the older Egyptian manuscripts and is [bracketed in the NABS] for that reason, but this verse ‘does’ appear in the newer Antiochian (Received) Text; which is the reason that you will find this verse ‘not’ bracketed in the
King James Versions.
4. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: “For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?”
This verse begins “
Let your women . . .” in the Critical Text and Received Text, but you have added words from
1Cor. 14:33 for some unknown reason. We can agree that there are minor differences between the manuscripts, but once again God has delivered the mail . . .
5. 1 John 5:7-8: These verses contain a section that is the most explicit reference to the modern Christian doctrine of the trinity that exists, known as the Comma Johanneum. They read as follows. "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.” The bolded section of the text appears to be a later addition to the text, as again, they are not contained in the oldest and most reliable manuscripts. [snip]
I assumed that you would eventually write about the most stomped-upon verses in all of Scripture, which again represent no “God error” at all. Only ‘
four or five very late manuscripts’ read like you quote these verses above, which makes me wonder why you would select this abomination of God’s Living Word as ‘your’ chosen translation. Deluded men have gone through an corrupted the Holy Text in places like you see right here, but we have the older manuscripts that exclude these errant additions to show us the Way into the Light of what God is really teaching. Scripture says,
“For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are into the one.” 1John 5:7-8.
You say, “
But this is not what either translation says!” And I say, “
No kidding, because I am reading from the Greek!” :0) Look for yourself (
link):
The Greek says that
these three (treis = #5140)
are (eisi #1526)
into (eis #1519)
the one (heis #1520). Go through and click on each number to the left of the Greek and decide for yourself if my translation agrees 100 percent with Strong’s Greek Lexicon. God is describing
three witnesses of spirit, water and blood like the
Father, Son and Holy Spirit (
pic) and the
heavens, heaven and earth (
pic) and the
human family (
pic) and
man (
pic) and even
God’s Living Word itself (
pic). The teaching that the ‘
three are into the one’ is better understood by drawing two overlapping circles (
explained here) where the first circle is the ‘
spirit witness’ and the second circle is the ‘
water witness’ and the ‘
blood witness’ in every case is the ‘
only begotten’ born out of ‘that’ relationship (like
Luke 1:35). The lingo about three testifying in ‘heaven’ (Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit) is definitely added to the Greek, because the
Father + Son + Holy Spirit = “The Word” (
Christ Jesus =
under red arrow), but these guys did not realize that at the time they corrupted God’s Living Word. :0)
Having established at least five passages of dubious legitimacy, I would also note several major books of the New Testament which are not regarded as legitimate, and are thought to be forgeries.
Please forgive, but your illegitimate accusations about God’s Living Word do not amount to anything.
A similar error (or deliberate omission) seems to have been made by Paul himself concerning his own activities after he was met by Jesus at Damascus. In Acts 9:26, he is recorded as attempting to meet the disciples at Jerusalem. (Saul and Paul are his respective Hebrew and Roman names.) “And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, and did not believe that he was a disciple.” Yet, in Galatians 1:17, he claims “nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.” He then says in verses 18 through 20, “Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)” Now, Acts 9:23 reads, “Now after many days were past, the Jews plotted to kill him.” This is a reference to his expulsion from Damascus, which evidently took place after his conversion there.
This is a classic case of a man ‘creating’ seeming contradictions in Scripture, because of his own ignorance and inability to
define ‘true context’ in a particular passage that he is attempting to reconcile. Paul is writing the Galatians in defense of “
the gospel I preach among the Gentiles” (
Gal. 2:2 =
Gospel #2 here) that he received through a ‘
revelation of Jesus Christ’ (
Gal. 1:11-12) only AFTER the accounts of Acts 9 have taken place. Paul writes,
“But
when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and
called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal
His Son IN me [
Col. 1:27 =
Fig 2] so that
I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I ‘did not’ immediately consult with flesh and blood, ‘nor did I go up to Jerusalem’ to those who were apostles before me; but ‘I went away to Arabia,’ and returned once more to Damascus.”
Galatians 1:15-17.
Peter, John and James are all preaching the “
Gospel of the Kingdom” (Gospel #1) that Paul is ‘also’ preaching back in Acts 9, which he describes later as “
preaching the kingdom” (
Acts 20:25*); as opposed to preaching the “
Gospel of the Grace of God” (Acts 20:24*) for the building up of the mystery “
Body of Christ.” Paul was having trouble with ‘
some of our number’ (
Acts 15:24) from Peter’s
Prophetic Kingdom “Bride” (
Church #1 here) disturbing his Gentile Churches that includes Jews among them, which is the very reason that he was sent by yet another
‘revelation’ (Gal. 2:2) to go up to Jerusalem and
‘submit’ this Gospel he preached among the Gentiles (Gospel to the Uncircumcised =
Gal. 2:7) at the famous meeting in Jerusalem in the first place. Paul is deliberately
‘separating’ himself and
his ‘new’ ministry from that of Peter, John and James, because these Galatians (like the Ephesians, Colossians, etc.) are becoming part of the brand new “
Dispensation of God’s Grace” (
Eph. 3:2 =
in red) that Peter, John and James (and you guys) did not even know about.
There is no contraction here, but men create seeming contradictions through their own ignorance by the failure to understand the real essence of what God is truly teaching . . .
In Christ Jesus,
Terral
confused
