Zone1 The Best Evidence For The Resurrection

[BreezeWood]

Even our Creator decided on a TEST to see how deep the trust of Abraham really was in his Creator?

do you believe he succeeded - taking the life of a lamb instead ...

God provided a ram—an adult male sheep—for Abraham to sacrifice as a substitute instead of his son.

do you believe what they wrote ... or

“Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me. This must be Isaac, your only son, the one you love. Use him ...

the heavens - or someone else so wrote the command.

 

[BreezeWood]

Clearly, you have no wish for truth, your wish is to bash Christianity. My only interest is why you have that wish/purpose to bash.

try a good review of not just christianity rather all three desert religions and their uninterrupted and remorseless histories to persecute and victimize the innocent using their false commandments et al beginning with their individual conceptions to the present day ...

for starters.

 

[Quantrill]

try a good review of not just christianity rather all three desert religions and their uninterrupted and remorseless histories to persecute and victimize the innocent using their false commandments et al beginning with their individual conceptions to the present day ...

for starters.

We who are Christian could care less about other religions. What a waste of time.

Who are the 'innocent' you speak of?

Who has proven the commandments of God false? You? Just because you say so? That's some deep stuff. No problem, I got my boots on.

Those are questions just for starters.

Quantrill

 

[Meriweather]

I think otherwise.

Of course. You don't want to deal with the actual Meriweather; you want to deal with the one you have created in your own mind.

I will challenge those who claim that a belief is automatically an attested fact.

Why? What is it to you, a non-Christian?

 

[ding]

its heart warming your (christians) who worship a false messiah are not those that experienced the 1st century events, jesus's pilgrimage with him the repudiation of judaism et al and their enlightenment meant for all, liberation theology, self determination.

Jesus affirmed that his role was more than the messiah.

only after the crucifixion did christianity evolve as jesus died than appease the jews claim they were a messiah.

Your timeline is off.

 

[ding]

you mean it culminated in their 4th century bible a script of their own making without the inclusion of anything offered directly by jesus included in their bible.

as a statement in itself - they were crucified before their inclination to put to text what would surly have been even more dangerous for them than what were the accusations that did eventually take their life. the false religion / personification of the heavens of judaism.

their madeup commandments used to persecute and victimize the innocent - by stone throwing jews.

It culminated in the resurrection.

 

[ding]

These texts were written by educated individuals from different parts of the Graeco-Roman world and who never knew the man or those who knew him.

They are all also late. The earliest gospel, Mark, is generally dated to around 70 CE. Following the First Jewish War all evidence of the members of the sect that followed Jesus of Nazareth had disappeared.

That's not an explanation for how, when or why Jesus was worshipped as God. Criticizing the existing narrative does nothing without an alternate explanation for how, when and why Jesus was first worshipped as God. How many times do I need to explain this to you?

 

[ding]

Point of information, the early Israelites were not Jews.

Certainly the excuse of divinely ordained massacres is an invention and of course those Hebrew texts were all redacted post Exile but none of that denies the horrors of ancient warfare, rapine, and the taking of captives as slaves

I approach these texts in precisely the same that any other ancient text would be assessed.

That's not disagreeing with me. As an atheist you have no choice but to believe nothing supernatural ever happened so therefore these accounts are Jewish embellishment. Right? It's ok. You can say yes. Then I'll move on to my next point.

 

[ding]

You are retrojecting Hellenistic ideas about anthropogenic deities along with texts that are post 70 CE and later back to observant Jews in the late 20s and 30s CE.

Nor was Jesus the only charismatic Jew who was believed to be able to perform miracles. The same was believed of Honi the Circle Maker and Hanina ben Dosa. Neither was ever believed to be divine.

You have yet to explain how when and why Jesus was first worshipped as God. You do realize that Jesus is worshipped as God, right? Atheism hasn't rotted out your brain so bad that can't acknowledge this self evident fact. So if Jesus is worshipped as God now then there must be a time when that began. Right? You aren't soo daft as to not understand this concept, are you? So tell me how, when and why this occurred. Can you do that? Is this beyond your intellectual capacity to understand? Don't make atheists look stupid. Step up.

 

[ding]

Because he is one of those who desperately attempts to reconcile two contradictory birth narratives.

He is a she and she is much more knowledgeable about this that you are. There's no desperation on her part. Why do you believe there's desperation on her part.

I think it's amazing that you think you have discovered something no one has ever discovered before, but have you tried using google AI to confirm your argument? Because I'm almost certain this isn't the first time this has come up.

 

[ding]

I think otherwise.

As I noted, based on what you are contending it strongly suggests that you have used those various sites and/or opinions that attempt to reconcile two contradictory birth narratives..



I will challenge those who claim that a belief is automatically an attested fact.

S/he has provided various Christian apologetics sites.

You are here to confirm your beliefs because you are insecure with your beliefs. I'm here to use facts and logic in a methodical fashion to correct people who attack beliefs not their own because they are too insecure of their own beliefs.

If what you are claiming were true. You'd be able to answer my questions honestly instead of playing dodgeball. But you haven't. So don't try to tell me you are here to make honest challenges because you aren't.

 

[ding]

I thought the British were supposed to be more intelligent.

 

[ding]

If you are not going to explain yourself there is little point in any further exchanges.

I agree. So maybe stop doing that in this thread.

Cryptic references are not an explanation.

I agree. So maybe stop doing that in this thread. A simple explanation for how, when and why Jesus was first worshipped as God and an explanation for why the gospels make a concerted effort to show the resurrection as an historical event will go a long way.

 

[ChristisKing]

 

[BreezeWood]

It culminated in the resurrection.

no, that was the tragic and choreographed crucifixion and death of jesus - administered by judaism..

as already established there is no verification for the resurrection of jesus through historical documentation, the response of the authorities that had just crucified him or any contemporary monuments, statues or clay reliefs in celebration of such an event and lastly a recording by the jews themselves who surly would have to respond to their own engineered events.

 

[Hypatia415]

Of course. You don't want to deal with the actual Meriweather;

I have never met and do not know the actual Meriweather. Just as you do not know the actual Hypatia415.

So far we are equal.

Why? What is it to you, a non-Christian?

The Christian religion has had a profound historical influence on Western society therefore, although I do not believe in any supernatural entities I am very interested in the religion that underpins many of our cultural attitudes.

 

[Hypatia415]

I agree. So maybe stop doing that in this thread.

I agree. So maybe stop doing that in this thread. A simple explanation for how, when and why Jesus was first worshipped as God and an explanation for why the gospels make a concerted effort to show the resurrection as an historical event will go a long way.

There is no simple explanation for your question. That seems to be something that irks you.

That some held this figure to be divine does not automatically indicate they believed it to be God. Even the concept of co-equality with the Father took a long time to be established and only then with the support of the emperor.

 

[Hypatia415]

You are here to confirm your beliefs because you are insecure with your beliefs. I'm here to use facts and logic in a methodical fashion to correct people who attack beliefs not their own because they are too insecure of their own beliefs.

Yet more consummate arrogance from you. Now you are claiming to have ESP.

Nor are you using facts. You are referring to texts which contain certain narratives that cannot be confirmed by attested historical evidence.

 

[Hypatia415]

He is a she

Well you thought that I was a man!

and she is much more knowledgeable about this that you are.

What about? She is being very coy about demonstrating her knowledge.

There's no desperation on her part. Why do you believe there's desperation on her part.

Trying to reconcile two contradictory birth narratives so that the story is not challenged strikes me as showing a degree of desperation.

I think it's amazing that you think you have discovered something no one has ever discovered before, but have you tried using google AI to confirm your argument? Because I'm almost certain this isn't the first time this has come up.

I do not use AI. I have books.

Concerning the allegations about a census in 14 CE or that the census in 6 CE was the second and that Herod the Great had conducted one earlier are all historical nonsense that various Christian theologians and/or historians have tried to apply in order to explain the author of how Matthew tells us that

In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea,

And the author of Luke writes that:

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.....Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David....;While they were there, the time came for her to deliver her child. 7 And she gave birth to her firstborn son

There is a ten year gap between the reign of Herod the Great ending and Augustus ordering the census after Judaea had been taken into direct Roman control.

And more to the point, as a Galilean subject of Herod Antipas Joseph would not have been involved in a census conducted in another province that was ruled by Rome

 

[Hypatia415]

You have yet to explain how when and why Jesus was first worshipped as God. You do realize that Jesus is worshipped as God, right?

Not from the outset.