Zone1 The Best Evidence For The Resurrection

[Lockback]

It can be and has been.

Radiocarbon testing, analysis of the blood stains (which show a blood type that originated at a much later date) along with fragments of plants and rock from Palestine suggest the artefact was likely created there, as were other relics between the late thirteenth and late fourteenth centuries.

However, every one of those tests and their findings has been challenged by those who allege this artefact must have its origins in the early first century and that it was created possibly through a burst of radiation that prefigured the supposed resurrection.

Well, you're just wrong.
So be it.

 

[Hypatia415]

The gospels addressed this.

No they do not "address this"

The Gospels explain that Jesus avoided being stoned for blasphemy because the Jewish authorities lacked legal authority to execute Him,

Questions surrounding the authority for Jews to carry out capital punishment remain. However, if we consider the execution of James which occurred in 62 CE it appears that the Roman governor had to give his assent.

The Romans took little interest in the religious affairs of their conquered regions providing those indigenous religions did not cause civil unrest or threaten the rule of Rome. That Jesus of Nazareth was executed by crucifixion indicates his crimes were not religious.

The idea of Jesus being an atoning sacrifice for the sins of humankind was not Paul’s original invention. Historical, textual, and biblical evidence shows that this concept existed among the earliest followers of Jesus and was taught by Jesus himself before Paul ever converted to Christianity.

Please provide citations? You are rather prone to make pronouncements and ignore requests for you to substantiate your claims.

Honesty is the best policy here.

While Paul heavily developed, systematized, and popularized this theology across the Greco-Roman world, he was passing down an existing tradition. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Evidence That Atonement Preceded Paul [1]

• Jesus’ Own Words: During the Last Supper, Jesus explicitly framed his upcoming death in sacrificial terms. In Matthew 26:28, he states, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins." He also referred to his life as a "ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). [1, 2, 3, 4]

Those are not "Jesus' Own Words". No one was following him with a dicataphone.

• Paul’s Own Admissions: In 1 Corinthians 15:3, Paul explicitly states that he is passing on an inherited tradition: "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures." The phrasing "delivered" and "received" represents the standard rabbinic formula for passing along established historical tradition. [1, 2]

Where in the scriptures is there a human sacrifice?

• Pre-Pauline Creeds: Biblical scholars have identified several "pre-Pauline creeds" embedded within Paul's letters. Passages like Romans 3:25—which describes Jesus as a "sacrifice of atonement"—use distinctive linguistic styles that show Paul was quoting hymns or statements already used by the earliest Jerusalem church. [1, 2, 3, 4]

You are citing online opinion. What texts are you using?

• Agreement with Other Apostles: In Galatians 2:2, Paul notes that he met with the original leaders in Jerusalem (including Peter and James) to ensure his preaching aligned with theirs. If Paul had invented a radical new concept of a blood-atoning Messiah, it would have caused a massive rift with the original Jewish disciples, but the New Testament records general consensus on this core point. [1, 2]

Paul's ideas did cause a rift with the men who knew Jesus if you read Galatians.

The Jewish Context of Atonement
The concept did not emerge in a vacuum. The earliest Christians were Jewish and interpreted Jesus' death through the lens of the Hebrew Bible: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

• The Suffering Servant: Isaiah 53 (written centuries before Jesus) describes a prophetic figure who was "wounded for our transgressions" and bore "the sin of many." Early Christians immediately connected Jesus' crucifixion to this text. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• The Sacrificial System: Levitical law relied heavily on animal sacrifices to ritually cleanse the community of sin. The earliest Christians viewed Jesus as the ultimate, permanent fulfillment of these temporary temple rituals. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Jewish Martyr Theology: Intertestamental Jewish writings, such as 2 and 4 Maccabees, already contained the theological idea that the deaths of righteous martyrs could serve as an "atoning sacrifice" or "ransom" to cleanse the sins of the nation. [1]

Again all this is online Christian opinion. Where are your texts?

What Paul Actually Contributed
While Paul did not invent the concept, he vastly expanded its scope. The earliest Jerusalem church primarily viewed Jesus' atonement through a Jewish lens focused on the restoration of Israel. Paul took this localized concept and built a global theology, arguing that Jesus' sacrifice completely bypassed the need for the Mosaic Law, making salvation directly accessible to non-Jewish Gentiles worldwide. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

I repeat my question where are your texts?

 

[Hypatia415]

Well, you're just wrong.
So be it.

Bravo! You successfully fit with the individuals described in my second paragraph.

 

[Lockback]

Bravo! You successfully fit with the individuals described in my second paragraph.

Couldn't care less.
The Shroud of Turin is Jesus' burial cloth.
Period.
Goodbye.

 

[GLASNOST]

Lazarus was probably in a coma.

And Christ?

 

[rightwinger]

The fact that you can't handle the Shroud of Turin is proof the truth escapes you.

The shroud is a hoax
Not a very good one

 

[Bad Bob]

And Christ?

He spent only a few hours on the cross before being taken down. It's possible he survived the Crucifixion even if he later died of his wounds or infection. Obviously walking out of his tomb would be seen as a miracle.

It's important to note that all the writings about Jesus came decades after the event. Nonetheless, the impact the event had on the Apostles is significant proof since many of them ended up dying for their beliefs. Who would willingly die for a fraud? They truly believed they witnessed a miracle and their behavior reflects their beliefs.

The atheists clamor about "no evidence" except in the Bible. They ignore Flavius Josephus who wrote about Jesus around the same time as the Gospel of John in 94 AD. Both came after the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.

https://academic.oup.com/book/60034/chapter/513639218

And in this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man, for he was a doer of miraculous deeds, a teacher of men who receive truth with pleasure. And he led many from among the Jews and many from among the Greeks. He was the Christ. And, when Pilate had condemned him to the cross at the accusation of the first men among us, those who at first loved him did not cease to do so, for he appeared to them alive again on the third day given that the divine prophets had spoken such things and thousands of other wonderful things about him. And up till now the tribe of the Christians, who were named from him, has not disappeared.

When Were the Gospels Written? - St. Paul Center

Article from the St. Paul Center | Modern scholarship tends to date Mark's Gospel around A.D. 70-75, Matthew around 75, Luke around 80-90, and John around 90-100. In part, these dates rest on the assumption that Mark's Gospel was written first-a view known as Marcan priority. Marcan priority is...

stpaulcenter.com

Modern scholarship tends to date Mark's Gospel around A.D. 70-75, Matthew around 75, Luke around 80-90, and John around 90-100.

 

[SweetSue92]

The idea of Jesus being a sacrifice to atone for the "sin" of humankind is Paul's idea.

You are welcome to provide verses from the Hebrew that refer to the requirement of a human sacrifice to atone for sin.

Unlikely that the direct followers of Jesus suffered "horrible deaths for their testimony" as we have no idea what happened to any of them, apart from James, who was stoned to death on the order of the High Priest who appears to have acted ultra vires. See Josephus on that.

The stories of Christian martyrdom have been wildly exaggerated. In the first half of the first century the Jesus Movement was a small sect within Judaism.

Following the events of the First Jewish War however, anything with known Jewish antecedents was viewed with hostility and suspicion.

We do not know that there were "dozens of eyewitnesses". We only have Paul's word on that.

Just on the first one: are you kidding? Jesus himself mentioned being a sacrifice for sin many times.

Matthew 20:28
Mark 10:45
John 10:11