The 2nd Amendment (Why we our Founders wrote it)

[ding]

No mind reader, and you clearly didn't read what I had actually written either. You decided what I had written meant something that it didn't say. It happens too much for me not to get annoyed at it.

I am absolutely 100% positive that I read every single word.

Well it's not what light infantry would have. It was always the weapons that citizens carried around in their normal daily life.

I read militia as light infantry because that's what a militia is.

I didn't say there was a limitation on the number of arms. I said what the Amendment means, which is that the feds can't prevent individuals from having arms. If you have a handgun, have I prevented you from having arms? No, I have not. If I prevent you having two guns, am I preventing you from having arms? No, I'm not.

Actually, yes. Yes to are preventing me from having arms. Allowing one and preventing another still is preventing arms. The dead give way is the word preventing.

 

[ding]

From Webster 1829, as in Noah Webster, Founding Father and Framer of the Constitution

INFRINGE, verb transitive infrinj'. [Latin infringo; in and frango, to break. See Break.]

1. To break, as contracts; to violate, either positively by contravention, or negatively by non-fulfillment or neglect of performance. A prince or a private person infringes an agreement or covenant by neglecting to perform its conditions, as well as by doing what is stipulated not to be done.

2. To break; to violate; to transgress; to neglect to fulfill or obey; as, to infringe a law.

3. To destroy or hinder; as, to infringe efficacy. [Little used.]


Break
BREAK, verb transitive preterit tense broke, [brake.obs.] participle passivebroke or broken.

[Latin frango, fregi, n casual; Heb.to break to free or deliver, to separate.]

1. To part or divide by force and violence, as a solid substance; to rend apart; as, to break a band; to break a thread or a cable.

2. To burst or open by force.

The fountains of the earth were broke open.

3. To divide by piercing or penetrating; to burst forth; as, the light breaks through the clouds.

4. To make breaches or gaps by battering, as in a wall.

5. To destroy, crush, weaken, or impair, as the human body or constitution.

6. To sink; to appall or subdue; as, to break the spirits, or the passions.

7. To crush; to shatter; to dissipate the strength of, as of an army.

8. To weaken, or impair, as the faculties.

9. To tame; to train to obedience; to make tractable; as, to break a horse.

10. To make bankrupt.

11. To discard, dismiss or cashier; as, to break an officer.

12. To crack, to part or divide, as the skin; to open, as an aposteme.

13. To violate, as a contract or promise, either by a positive act contrary to the promise, or by neglect or non-fulfillment.

14. To infringe or violate, as a law, or any moral obligation, either by a positive act or by an omission of what is required.

15. To stop; to interrupt; to cause to cease; as, to break conversation; to breaksleep.

16. To intercept; to check; to lessen the force of; as, to break a fall, or a blow.

17. To separate; to part; as, to break company of friendship.

18. To dissolve any union; sometimes with off; as, to break off a connection.

19. To cause to abandon; to reform or cause to reform; as, to break one of ill habits or practices.

20. To open as a purpose; to propound something new; to make a first disclosure of opinions; as, to break one's mind.

21. To frustrate; to prevent.

If plagues or earthquakes break not heaven's design.

22. To take away; as, to break the whole staff of bread. Psalms 105:1.

23. To stretch; to strain; to rack; as, to break one on the wheel.

To break the back, to strain or dislocate the vertebers with too heavy a burden; also, to disable one's fortune.

To break bulk, to begin to unload.

To break a deer, to cut it up at table.

To breakfast, to eat the first meal in the day, but used as a compound word.

To break ground, to plow.

To break ground, to dig; to open trenches.

To break the heart, to afflict grievously; to cause great sorrow or grief; to depress with sorrow or despair.

To break a jest, to utter a jest unexpected.

To break the neck, to dislocate the joints of the neck.

To break off, to put a sudden stop to; to interrupt; to discontinue.

BREAK off thy sins by righteousness. Daniel 4:27.

1. To sever; to divide; as, to break off a twig.

To break sheer, in marine language. When a ship at anchor is in a position to keep clear of the anchor, but is forced by wind or current out of that position, she breaks her sheer.

To break up, to dissolve or put an end to; as, to break up house-keeping.

1. To open or lay open; as, to break up a bed of earth.

2. To plow ground the first time, or after lying long unplowed; a common use in the U. States.

3. To separate; as, to break up a company.

4. To disband; as, to break up an army.

To break upon the wheel, to stretch and break the bones by torture upon the wheel.

To break wind, to give vent to wind from the body backward.

BREAK, verb intransitive To part; to separate; to divide in two; as, the ice breaks; a band breaks.

1. To burst; as, a storm or deluge breaks.

2. To burst, by dashing against something; as, a wave breaks upon a rock.

3. To open, as a tumor or aposteme.

4. To open, as the morning; to show the first light; to dawn.

5. To burst forth; to utter or exclaim.

6. To fail in trade or other occupation; to become bankrupt.

7. To decline in health and strength; to begin to lose the natural vigor.

8. To issue out with vehemence.

9. To make way with violence or suddenness; to rush; often with a particle; as, to break in; to break in upon, as calamities; to break over, as a flood; to breakout, as a fire; to break forth, as light or a sound.

10. To come to an explanation.

I am to break with thee upon some affairs. [I believe, antiquated.]

11. To suffer an interruption of friendship; to fall out.

Be not afraid to break with traitors.

12. To faint, flag or pant.

My soul breaketh for longing to thy judgments. Psalms 119:20.

To break away, to disengage itself from; to rush from; also, to dissolve itself or dissipate, as fog or clouds.

To break forth, to issue out.

To break from, to disengage from; to depart abruptly, or with vehemence.

To break in, to enter by force; to enter unexpectedly; to intrude.

To break loose, to get free by force; to escape from confinement by violence; to shake off restraint.

To break off, to part; to divide; also, to desist suddenly.

To break off from, to part from with violence.

To break out, to issue forth; to discover itself by its effects, to arise or spring up; as, a fire breaks out; a sedition breaks out; a fever breaks out.

1. To appear in eruptions, as pustules; to have pustules, or an efflorescence on the skin, as a child breaks out. Hence we have freckle from the root of break

2. To throw off restraint, and become dissolute.

To break up, to dissolve itself and separate; as a company breaks up; a meeting breaks up; a fog breaks up; but more generally we say, fog, mist or clouds break away.

To break with, to part in enmity; to cease to be friends; as, to break with a friend or companion.

This verb carries with it its primitive sense of straining, parting, severing, bursting, often with violence, with the consequential senses of injury, defect and infirmity.

BREAK, noun A state of being open, or the act of separating; an opening made by force; an open place. It is the same word as brack, differently written and pronounced.

1. A pause; an interruption.

2. A line in writing or printing, noting a suspension of the sense, or a stop in the sentence.

3. In a ship, the break of the deck is the part where it terminates, and the descent on to the next deck below commences.

4. The first appearance of light in the morning; the dawn; as the break of day.

 

[rightwinger]

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

And the Government elected by We the People has an obligation to put down any insurrection

 

[ding]

[QUOTE="ding, post: 15669164, member: 59921"
I disagree. To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

No where here does it say have access or have a ready supply. It literally says possess.

possess: have as belonging to one; own.

Furthermore, at the time of ratification, how did they have a ready supply if it were not for each citizen owning his own weapon?[/QUOTE]

In order to belong to a militia. If that isn't the case why mention militia at all?[/QUOTE]
Sure, but they viewed the whole body of the people as the militia and that it was to serve as a check against a standing army of the government which means the militia could not be under the control of the federal government.

 

[ding]

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

And the Government elected by We the People has an obligation to put down any insurrection

The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that as long as the people are armed there will never be a need to rebel because the mere act of an armed populace serves to check the behavior of the government.

 

[Dr Grump]

Sure, but they viewed the whole body of the people as the militia and that it was to serve as a check against a standing army of the government which means the militia could not be under the control of the federal government.

Doesn't negate my point. Take out the word militia and your point stands. keep it in there and it doesn't.

 

[rightwinger]

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

And the Government elected by We the People has an obligation to put down any insurrection

The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that as long as the people are armed there will never be a need to rebel because the mere act of an armed populace serves to check the behavior of the government.

History has shown that because we have such a powerful 1st amendment, we have never needed a 2nd

While the people had a small chance to overthrow the Government using muskets in1776, they have no chance against a modern army

Citizens militia did not win the RevolutionaryWar

 

[Boss]

While the people had a small chance to overthrow the Government using muskets in1776, they have no chance against a modern army

This is just foolish and short-sighted. Even if the US military were motivated to do so, they couldn't defeat 200 million people armed with 350 million guns. We have trouble securing a small town in Iraq against radical Islamic rebels with homemade IEDs and pickup trucks. In any such imaginable scenario, you're going to have about half or more of the military deserting their posts to join their fellow Americans in revolution. Much of the heavy arsenal of US military weapons would be seized in a matter of hours. All National Guard Armories would be controlled by the people in revolution, not the US military. Short of launching some sort of nuclear attack, the coup would stand no change of success... and what are they going to do, rule over a desolate nuclear wasteland? What would be the point?

You've got some little fucked up notion in your head that the scenario would be the liberals control the army and all the army are committed to the liberals against the redneck right-wingers and their guns. You figure your weapons would be bigger and badder, therefore, you'd win the confrontation. But that's not how any scenario would play out... except inside your fucked up little liberal head.

 

[Vandalshandle]

The keyboard commandos are getting restless....

 

[rightwinger]

While the people had a small chance to overthrow the Government using muskets in1776, they have no chance against a modern army

This is just foolish and short-sighted. Even if the US military were motivated to do so, they couldn't defeat 200 million people armed with 350 million guns. We have trouble securing a small town in Iraq against radical Islamic rebels with homemade IEDs and pickup trucks. In any such imaginable scenario, you're going to have about half or more of the military deserting their posts to join their fellow Americans in revolution. Much of the heavy arsenal of US military weapons would be seized in a matter of hours. All National Guard Armories would be controlled by the people in revolution, not the US military. Short of launching some sort of nuclear attack, the coup would stand no change of success... and what are they going to do, rule over a desolate nuclear wasteland? What would be the point?

You've got some little fucked up notion in your head that the scenario would be the liberals control the army and all the army are committed to the liberals against the redneck right-wingers and their guns. You figure your weapons would be bigger and badder, therefore, you'd win the confrontation. But that's not how any scenario would play out... except inside your fucked up little liberal head.

You overstate the number of Americans who have guns and their willingness to take up arms against our country

You treat those who would take up arms against their country as heroes when in effect they would be bands of poorly trained, poorly led thugs against the strongest Army in the history of mankind

 

[miketx]

The Right to Bear Arms (i.e. the 2nd Amendment) was seen by our Founding Fathers as the last check against tyranny. They knew that the best line of defense against a standing army was an armed populace.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The people who wish to preserve liberty and are capable of bearing arms are the militia.

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

The Founding Fathers believed that peaceable law abiding citizens should never have their right to bear arms be infringed upon.

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, WHO ARE PEACEABLE CITIZENS, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

The fundamental purpose of the militia is to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the level of equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army.

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

Well regulated does not mean regulations. When the Constitution specifies regulations it specifically states who and what is being regulated. The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. The fundamental purpose of the militia was to serve as a check upon a standing army, the words “well regulated” referred to the necessity that the armed citizens making up the militia have the necessary equipment and training necessary to be an effective and formidable check upon the national government’s standing army. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

Firstly the right to bear arms doesn't give you an armed populace. That's the right to keep arms. The right to bear arms is the right to be in the militia.

i.e., the militia with citizen soldiers, that means you need people with the guns for the militia, and you need people to use the guns in the militia.

And who is the militia, tard?

 

[ding]

And who is the militia, tard?

I doubt you would be one. I'll let Founding Fathers Richard Lee, James Madison, Noah Webster and George Mason respond to your insolent question.

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

Now do you understand?

 

[ding]

Doesn't negate my point. Take out the word militia and your point stands. keep it in there and it doesn't.

It does negate your point if your point is that citizens are not allowed to own guns unless they are in a militia.

 

[miketx]

And who is the militia, tard?

I doubt you would be one. I'll let Founding Fathers Richard Lee, James Madison, Noah Webster and George Mason respond to your insolent question.

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

Now do you understand?

I never did not understand.

 

[ding]

History has shown that because we have such a powerful 1st amendment, we have never needed a 2nd. While the people had a small chance to overthrow the Government using muskets in1776, they have no chance against a modern army Citizens militia did not win the RevolutionaryWar

Maybe not with muskets but with a superior number of citizens armed with modern day semi-automatic rifles, they do. But as I have already written, we won't need to do that because we are armed and an armed populace in and of itself serves as a deterrent to prevent tyranny the same way that nuclear weapons serves as a deterrent to prevent nuclear war. It seems that Founding Fathers, Noah Webster and Alexander Hamilton agree with me on both points too.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." - - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

Now do you understand.

 

[miketx]

History has shown that because we have such a powerful 1st amendment, we have never needed a 2nd. While the people had a small chance to overthrow the Government using muskets in1776, they have no chance against a modern army Citizens militia did not win the RevolutionaryWar

Maybe not with muskets but with a superior number of citizens armed with modern day semi-automatic rifles, they do. But as I have already written, we won't need to because we are armed because an armed populace in and of itself will act as a deterrent the same way that nuclear weapons act as a deterrent to prevent nuclear war. It seems that Founding Fathers, Noah Webster and Alexander Hamilton agree with me on both points too.

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"If circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." - - Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

Now do you understand.

It's not a matter of the turd eaters understanding, it's a matter of them refusing to do so.

 

[Vandalshandle]

And who is the militia, tard?

I doubt you would be one. I'll let Founding Fathers Richard Lee, James Madison, Noah Webster and George Mason respond to your insolent question.

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

Now do you understand?

I never did not understand.

If they try to drive a Abrams tank up to my house, I'm going top shoot out their headlights with my .22!

 

[ding]

You overstate the number of Americans who have guns and their willingness to take up arms against our country

You treat those who would take up arms against their country as heroes when in effect they would be bands of poorly trained, poorly led thugs against the strongest Army in the history of mankind

Maybe, maybe not. Who said the army wouldn't be leading the charge?

 

[ding]

And who is the militia, tard?

I doubt you would be one. I'll let Founding Fathers Richard Lee, James Madison, Noah Webster and George Mason respond to your insolent question.

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

Now do you understand?

I never did not understand.

If they try to drive a Abrams tank up to my house, I'm going top shoot out their headlights with my .22!

Who are you trying to fool, you don't even own a peashooter let alone a rimfire.

 

[miketx]

And who is the militia, tard?

I doubt you would be one. I'll let Founding Fathers Richard Lee, James Madison, Noah Webster and George Mason respond to your insolent question.

A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

Now do you understand?

I never did not understand.

If they try to drive a Abrams tank up to my house, I'm going top shoot out their headlights with my .22!

Who are you trying to fool, you don't even own a peashooter let alone a rimfire.

With all due respect, most liberals do have peashooters. They keep them in their pants.