2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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Bullshit.
Ah....great reply.........shows a lot of effort on your part....
Here you go genius........the koran, chapter and verse...
look it up for yourself....but here is a guide...
Taqiyya: Deception and Lying in Islam
Quran
Quran (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.
Quran (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim should appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel that way..
Quran (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway. (The next verse refers only to those who have a personal agreement with Muhammad as individuals - see Ibn Kathir (vol 4, p 49)
Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Quran (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.
Quran (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)
Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Hadith and Sira
Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).
Bukhari (49:857) - "He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar." Lying is permitted when the end justifies the means.
Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permitted in order to deceive an "enemy."
Muslim (32:6303) - "...he did not hear that exemption was granted in anything what the people speak as lie but in three cases: in battle, for bringing reconciliation amongst persons and the narration of the words of the husband to his wife, and the narration of the words of a wife to her husband (in a twisted form in order to bring reconciliation between them)."
Bukhari (50:369) - Recounts the murder of a poet, Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, at Muhammad's insistence. The men who volunteered for the assassination used dishonesty to gain Ka'b's trust, pretending that they had turned against Muhammad. This drew the victim out of his fortress, whereupon he was brutally slaughtered.
From Islamic Law:
Reliance of the Traveler (p. 746 - 8.2) - "Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible (N:i.e. when the purpose of lying is to circumvent someone who is preventing one from doing something permissible), and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory... it is religiously precautionary in all cases to employ words that give a misleading impression...
Yes, yes a Muslim can lie etc etc, but that isn't the same thing as "the Koran allows a Muslim to do anything " and it certainly doesn't mean that any crime committed by a Muslim was done so FOR Islam.
Does anyone remember Jesus allowing this kind of activity?
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food." (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, "Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me." Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, "What do you want?" Ka'b replied, "Mortgage your women to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the 'Arabs?" Ka'b said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." They said, "How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people's saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you." Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab's foster brother, Abu Na'ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, "Where are you going at this time?" Kab replied, "None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na'ila have come." His wife said, "I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka'b said. "They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed." Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as 'Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, "When Ka'b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head." Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. " have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka'b replied. "I have got the best 'Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume." Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka'b "Will you allow me to smell your head?" Ka'b said, "Yes." Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka'b again, "Will you let me (smell your head)?" Ka'b said, "Yes." When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), "Get at him!" So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf."
1. I'll see your..... whatever this endless diarrhea stream of TL/DR blue is supposed to be... and raise you wife execution (Leviticus 20:10)... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
.....Rape, executing the victim of (Deuteronomy 20:1) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
.....Rape, offering one's own daughters for (Genesis 19:4-8) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble
.....Pedophilia -- see directly above;
.....Working on Sabbath punishable by stoning to death (Exodus 35:2) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
.....Murder/pillage/conquest (Deuteronomy 7:1-2, 20:10-17 and indeed throughout the most violent book ever writ) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... Special mention for bashing babies' heads against the rocks (Psalm 137:9) ... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
.....Torture (Exodus 21:20-21) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... Animal Cruelty (Leviticus 1:9 and again Exodus 21:28) ... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... Sex discrimination against women (Leviticus 15:19-24) .... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... More sex discrimination against women (Ephesians 5:22-24)... Oh wait, that's still the Holey Babble.
..... Various intolerances from homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22) to eating shellfish (Lev. 11:10), to touching the skin of a dead pig (Lev. 11:6-8), to symbiotic "companion-planting" (Lev. 19:19) to making clothes from two different materials (ibid) to getting one's hair trimmed (Leviticus 19:27) .... Oh wait, that's ALL the Holey Babble.
(note to self: Things to do this week: organize stoning to death for my barber....)
..... Cursing or blaspheming punishable by death (Leviticus 24:16) Damn! Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... Disobeying one's parents punishable by death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)... Oh wait, that's the Holey Babble.
..... "Witchcraft", i.e. Naturism punishable by death (Leviticus 20:27) -- oh wait that's the Holey Babble. This was a hot seller in Europe, literally...
..... Buying into another religion punishable by death (Deuteronomy 13:5-10) --- even in past history (Deuteronomy 17:2-5) ... oh wait that's ......
Uh --- sorry, was that your point I just ran over? I thought I heard a thump.
Not to worry. I'm sure you can just buy another one real cheap from Pam Rump or Donald Geller. They churn 'em out in mass quantities.
And which of those is actually practised today in the modern world? Compared to the islamic practices actually being practised today in muslim countries....see any Christians or Jews stoning homosexuals lately? Seen any muslims doing it?