Teaching 'Self-Esteem' Is A Crock

[Annie]

The infustion of the mantra, 'do not hurt the child's self-esteem' for the past 25 years has finally been proven irrelevant, if not harmful. Truth is, the idea of not using 'red ink' or in some cases, just not marking wrong answers, wrong, does NOT build self-esteem or lead to better performance down the line. I've always suspected that it makes those that aren't mastering the materia, feel 'just fine' and perhaps delusional about what they do and don't know:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/17/AR2006101701298.html

For Math Students, Self-Esteem Might Not Equal High Scores
U.S. Lags Behind Countries That Don't Emphasize Self-Regard

By Jay Mathews
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 18, 2006; A02

It is difficult to get through a day in an American school without hearing maxims such as these: "To succeed, you must believe in yourself," and "To teach, you must relate the subject to the lives of students."

But the Brookings Institution is reporting today that countries such as the United States that embrace self-esteem, joy and real-world relevance in learning mathematics are lagging behind others that don't promote all that self-regard.

Consider Korea and Japan.

According to the Washington think tank's annual Brown Center report on education, 6 percent of Korean eighth-graders surveyed expressed confidence in their math skills, compared with 39 percent of U.S. eighth-graders. But a respected international math assessment showed Koreans scoring far ahead of their peers in the United States, raising questions about the importance of self-esteem.

In Japan, the report found, 14 percent of math teachers surveyed said they aim to connect lessons to students' lives, compared with 66 percent of U.S. math teachers. Yet the U.S. scores in eighth-grade math trail those of the Japanese, raising similar questions about the importance of practical relevance.

Tom Loveless, the report's author, said that the findings do not mean that student happiness causes low achievement. But he wrote that his analysis of the international math assessment, the 2003 Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, shows that U.S. schools should not be too quick to assume that happiness is what matters in the classroom.

"It is interesting that people grasp this notion in other areas of self-improvement -- eating healthy foods, getting exercise, saving for retirement -- but when it comes to education, for some reason, the limitations of happiness are forgotten," Loveless wrote.

Several countries in Asia and some in Europe tend to beat the United States in math scores, even though their students show less satisfaction with performance and less love of math, and even though the lessons they receive are less "relevant," the report found.

The report is likely to stoke a debate over teaching math and other subjects that has divided the United States for at least a century. Progressives say that what students choose to study and how they feel about education should matter as much, or more, in the classroom than test results; traditionalists say that gain requires some pain and that tests matter.

Alfie Kohn, a progressive author and lecturer, questioned the findings.

"Let me get this straight," Kohn said. "Kids who get higher scores on standardized tests are unhappy and self-doubting, so that means we should question the importance of happiness and self-confidence, rather than the importance of these tests?"​

Yup, this is what is 'taught' in university education classes.

Gerald W. Bracey, an educational psychologist and columnist for the education journal Phi Delta Kappan, said the report overlooked countervailing trends in Japan, Singapore and other countries that do better than the United States on eighth-grade math tests. Officials in those countries say their education systems are not yielding graduates who have the same level of creativity as American graduates. Some Asian nations have begun to copy aspects of U.S. education, including the emphasis on letting students search for answers rather than memorize them.

The Brookings report notes that in most countries, including Korea and the United States, students who like math and think they are good at it have higher math scores than those who don't. Perspective matters, Loveless wrote: Japanese students who would be considered good at the subject if they were in the United States think that they are not so good when compared with their peers in Japan.

The international test results from 2003 and related surveys from 46 countries show that the world's most confident eighth-grade math students are found in the Middle East, Africa and the United States. Of the 10 countries with the highest levels of student confidence, only Israel and the United States scored higher than average on the international test, and their scores were far below those of the much less confident students in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The surveys asked teachers in each country whether they relate math lessons to daily life at least half of the time. In Chile, 87 percent of teachers answered affirmatively, the highest mark on the relevance scale. Japan was at the bottom of the list.

"The more relevant the math, the lower-scoring the nation," Loveless wrote.

Chester E. Finn Jr., president of the D.C.-based Thomas B. Fordham Foundation, said the report shows that schools need not be fun to be effective. "Schools should work on academics, not feelings," Finn said. "True self-esteem, self-confidence and happiness are born of true achievement."

 

[CSM]

As if I needed a "report" from some institution to tell me that!

 

[Nienna]

GMTA, Kathianne! I was just going to post this morning about this. When I went in for parent teacher conferences last week, I saw a poster in the hallway, advertising the "3 Rs."

Remember the old days when the "3 Rs" were "Reading," "WRiting," & "ARithmatic"? Well, those days are gone. The NEW 3 Rs are "Respect Yourself," "Respect Others," and "Respect Your School."

 

[Nienna]

students who like math and think they are good at it have higher math scores than those who don't.

Maybe they have higher test scores and like math because they are naturally good at math?

"True self-esteem, self-confidence and happiness are born of true achievement."

AMEN!!!

 

[KarlMarx]

Self esteem was the snake oil of the 1980s and 1990s. No evidence exists to suggest that higher self esteem equates to improved academic performance.

I believe it was based on Maslow's hierarchy of needs theory, which was debunked long ago....

I once read that the only group that did indeed have high self esteem were violent criminals. That explains why many of them do not respond to rehabilitation... they don't feel the need to reform. I'm sure Castro, Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein also have what psychologists call "high self esteem", but the rest of us call "pathological narcissism".

 

[jillian]

I think there's some confusion between real self-esteem, which is based on accomplishments and ability, as opposed to this blow sunshine up your butt, rainbow fish kinda garbage that I think destroys incentives and creates people who don't think they have to earn anything or accomplish anything.

 

[Mr. P]

GMTA, Kathianne! I was just going to post this morning about this. When I went in for parent teacher conferences last week, I saw a poster in the hallway, advertising the "3 Rs."

Remember the old days when the "3 Rs" were "Reading," "WRiting," & "ARithmatic"? Well, those days are gone. The NEW 3 Rs are "Respect Yourself," "Respect Others," and "Respect Your School."

 

[Mr. P]

I think there's some confusion between real self-esteem, which is based on accomplishments and ability, as opposed to this blow sunshine up your butt, rainbow fish kinda garbage that I think destroys incentives and creates people who don't think they have to earn anything or accomplish anything.

I agree, and that damn rainbow fish should be in a can! TOTAL

 

[jillian]

I agree, and that damn rainbow fish should be in a can! TOTAL

I agree. When they had the kids read that awful book in pre-K, I actually went up to see his teacher. Imagine, a book that tells kids that they won't be accepted if they're special, or talented or accomplished but they have to be like everyone else. Totally bizarre.... I ended up having a long talk with my son and I was really honest about why I hated that book. I think he understood.

 

[Nienna]

I agree. When they had the kids read that awful book in pre-K, I actually went up to see his teacher. Imagine, a book that tells kids that they won't be accepted if they're special, or talented or accomplished but they have to be like everyone else. Totally bizarre.... I ended up having a long talk with my son and I was really honest about why I hated that book. I think he understood.

But, the shiny foil fish scales and blue underwater colors were pretty.

 

[jillian]

But, the shiny foil fish scales and blue underwater colors were pretty.

They were....

Still struck me as a messed up message. I mean, I remember when I was a kid wanting to be ANYTHING but average.... average was like the dirtiest word. I don't see anything productive in kids being told they shouldn't strive to be their best.

 

[KarlMarx]

They were....

Still struck me as a messed up message. I mean, I remember when I was a kid wanting to be ANYTHING but average.... average was like the dirtiest word. I don't see anything productive in kids being told they shouldn't strive to be their best.

Just remember, the average American has one testicle and one ovary. In other words, there is no such thing as average.

We each have our own gifts, our own strengths and we should capitalize on them to the greatest extent possible.

This is the philosophy I try to impress upon my son, who has a handicap, but has been able to graduate from High School and is now attending a local college. (Can you tell I'm proud of him?)

I also told him long ago that self esteem was a bunch of crap and that he should not listen to it. Feelings are not facts. You learn from your mistakes and go on. Feeling good about yourself is not a prerequisite to success, but then neither is excessive navel gazing. People who don't look at themselves with a critical eye cannot become better persons. That is why certain people do not respond well to constructive criticism and appeals to reason. They are incapable of looking at themselves with a critical eye or considering that they are at fault for anything. I believe that excessive self confidence is just as bad as excessive self doubt.

 

[Annie]

Just an aside, many an 'average kid' or even 'below average kid' with a good work ethic, usually instilled by parents or coaches, often outshine more innately 'gifted' kids. Why? Because they not only do what is expected, but through doing more than is expected, develop that certain type of curiosity that keeps driving them.

Now that is a kid with self-esteem. It starts with, "Hang up your jacket, put dirty clothes in hamper, and brush your teeth."

 

[Nienna]

Just an aside, many an 'average kid' or even 'below average kid' with a good work ethic, usually instilled by parents or coaches, often outshine more innately 'gifted' kids. Why? Because they not only do what is expected, but through doing more than is expected, develop that certain type of curiosity that keeps driving them.

Now that is a kid with self-esteem. It starts with, "Hang up your jacket, put dirty clothes in hamper, and brush your teeth."

Responsiblity & hard work can get you farther than plain "smarts" can.

 

[Annie]

Responsiblity & hard work can get you farther than plain "smarts" can.

Exactly. In 9 years of teaching middle school, I can think of 3 students that I considered 'gifted.' Although there have been at least 12 that had the same kind of standardized Terra Nova scores-98 or 99%, across the board. Those 3 though, worked. They welcomed the challenges and appreciated being 'exempt' from work that they didn't need to make the time to do more and deeper exploration on the topics. 2 are at Yale, 1 at Harvard, (which goes to show I'm due another soon).

However, I've had the majority of my students go into honors/ap history courses in high school, for the simple reason that I demand they work. There are occassionally parents that with balk because their child doesn't want to do the work or perhaps the parents just decide that supporting a kid working on a complex project with research and writing is too hard for them. After I explain why I'm doing what I do, if they still feel that way, I give their child 'packets' of work to complete for each chapter. They fill in the blanks, match the vocab, and get their C's and B's. Not one of the 8 I've had in this category have excelled in high school, though they do get through.

On the other hand, I've had at least 7 students who were diagnosed learning disabled. For each of them in 6th grade, I've sat with them and their parents to find out where the child's 'gifts' and weaknesses are. In every case, the weaknesses were reading/writing/memory related. Strengths differed but mostly fell into 'fine arts'-music, writing, drawing, drama. So we went with strengths at the start. Then built from there. In only one case were the weaknesses so great, that the student wasn't performing at or above grade level by 8th grade. That is without any support in LD in my school and for 2 of them, (including the 1 that wasn't at grade level in 8th), pullout to the public schools for support services.

I think I've been lucky because by 6th grade most parents have been hearing their child has a big problem. Social studies also is an area where there are so many ways to show what you know. (Les Mis anyone?) When I offer to work with what I can do, the parents willingly back me up.

Personally, I do think some of the kids may have been better off in public schools with all the staff and support they can give, but ultimately it's a parent's decision. If one can find a math/science teacher willing to do this, I would bet it would be hard.

The saving grace for the child, they are able to use their talents to demonstrate mastery of what I've taught, which I can honestly grade. If they demonstrate complete mastery, they get their A. With their confidence/self-esteem building, we start to add more 'conventional academic performance standards' when it seems appropriate to the student and myself. The fact that I back their plan usually means they work many times as hard as the 'regular student.' By 8th grade, the kids are usually shocked that the kid they thought 'stupid' is now beating them to the ground.

Bottom line: gifted, average, less than average, self-esteem is earned. When that is the level we hold students to, most will not only meet it, but exceed it. Why? It feels good.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

As if I needed a "report" from some institution to tell me that!

Yeah! We don't need some fancy, shmancy institute out of New York City to tell us what the long and the short is!

 

[Annie]

Yeah! We don't need some fancy, shmancy institute out of New York City to tell us what the long and the short is!

Well in this case they were saying that 'teaching self-esteem' is a crock. On the other hand, they've been instilling the ideas of teachers doing so many things that go against common sense, that one shouldn't be surprised that they finally figured one of the 'boo boos' out.

They seem to have recently 'discovered' that whole language may not be the best way to teach reading either-20 years later. Same with spelling, it does actually matter regarding both reading and writing. Same with math memorization of facts-calculators in k-4 tend to render memorization obsolete, well except for understanding. :shocked:

 

[Bullypulpit]

The infustion of the mantra, 'do not hurt the child's self-esteem' for the past 25 years has finally been proven irrelevant, if not harmful. Truth is, the idea of not using 'red ink' or in some cases, just not marking wrong answers, wrong, does NOT build self-esteem or lead to better performance down the line. I've always suspected that it makes those that aren't mastering the materia, feel 'just fine' and perhaps delusional about what they do and don't know:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/17/AR2006101701298.html

You can't teach "self-esteem" to anyone. It has to be earned, by dint of one's own efforts. Anything else, as we see, simply produces a generation of people who are completely unprepared to deal with the real world, as they expect everything to be handed to them, and they will be rewarded and praised for their mediocrity.

Leistungsgesellschaft (meritocracy) über allen!

 

[jillian]

Just remember, the average American has one testicle and one ovary. In other words, there is no such thing as average.

I hear ya..

We each have our own gifts, our own strengths and we should capitalize on them to the greatest extent possible.

I absolutely agree.

I don't know if your son was given the book we were talking about as it might be after his time. But Rainbow Fish is basically a story about the most beautiful fish who had all of these rainbow colored scales. The other fish reject the Rainbow Fish because she's special. Only after Rainbow Fish gives a scale to each of the other fish so that they are all the same, each with one beautiful scale, do they accept her. And this is supposed to be a happy ending... or a lesson being taught to kids. I hate, hate, hate that story... and I hate the lessons it "teaches". Sorry if you already knew the story, I apologize if I stated the obvious for you.

This is the philosophy I try to impress upon my son, who has a handicap, but has been able to graduate from High School and is now attending a local college. (Can you tell I'm proud of him?)

And you should be!! Kudos to you and him!!! You must have done great work with him.

I also told him long ago that self esteem was a bunch of crap and that he should not listen to it. Feelings are not facts. You learn from your mistakes and go on. Feeling good about yourself is not a prerequisite to success, but then neither is excessive navel gazing. People who don't look at themselves with a critical eye cannot become better persons.

It's important as we get older, to be able to critically appraise what we've done. What I tell my son, who's gonna be 9 next week is that he should be proud of his accomplishments and always do his best and work his hardest at whatever task is before him.

That is why certain people do not respond well to constructive criticism and appeals to reason. They are incapable of looking at themselves with a critical eye or considering that they are at fault for anything. I believe that excessive self confidence is just as bad as excessive self doubt.

I think realistic confidence is appropriate. I think self-doubt is non-productive.

Great work with your kid!

 

[Avatar4321]

I think self esteem is meaningless. What everyone needs is self confidence.

Self esteem is just feeling good about yourself. Self confidence is feeling good about who you are and what you can do. you can have one without the other.

And the best way to get self confidence is to teach people good principles. by following good and true principles. learning how to be self reliant you can build self confidence and truly benefit society.