Another NATO Coup in Romania

[Zavulon]

Yeah, what Russian interference? Let's all pretend we're ignorant idiots, "What Russian interference?"

Russian Electoral Interference in Moldova and Georgia 2024: Mapping Telegram Disinformation Networks

How Russia continues to try to manipulate elections in other countries - the latest examples.

www.kyivpost.com

"Russian Electoral Interference in Moldova and Georgia 2024: Mapping Telegram Disinformation Networks"

Yeah, the source isn't the best, but it's just an example of what people are saying.

And we know Russia has been interfering in elections in Europe and the US.

Really? And all those "Russian influencers" are they with us now, in this thread?

Old but gold:

 

[Zavulon]

Nice opinion from Marakhov's time:


The moment of observations.

There is reason to suspect, dear friends, that in the rather secondary (the president there is more of a ceremonial figure) elections in Romania, a truly historic event took place.

For the first time in modern European history, it seems, the winner was cancelled simply because he was voted for.

As a precedent, this could have - and will have - unimaginably dramatic consequences.

Because in essence, all of this “The candidate enjoyed preferential treatment on social media platforms, voters were unable to form an opinion about the candidates and may have been misled about the personality and quality of the candidate” is essentially about this.

1) We, the undersigned, know the truth about a specific person.
2) We found that adult, sane people with the right to vote did not understand the truth about a specific person.
3) We cancel their expression of will.

In practical terms, this means that everything is done. The problem of the wrong politicians has been solved for the first time without any "smart voting", compromising evidence, denials on far-fetched grounds, games with majoritarian districts, censorship, cries of falsifications and "foreign precincts". The authority decided that people voted incorrectly, the authority annuls their votes.

Try to prove to the official holders of truth that your opinion is correct, if they have a decision that it is wrong. You voted for a candidate you shouldn't have voted for, what other proof do you need? Your vote is real, but your will is falsified. If you were aware of the truth, you would have voted correctly, but you voted incorrectly . Vote again.

...I wonder which of the "old" EU countries will be the first to adopt this mega-lifehack. Personally, I'm betting on Germany.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Really? And all those "Russian influencers" are they with us now, in this thread?

Old but gold:

Yeah, pass this off as nothing and make some silly comment.

There might be people on forums like this, but I doubt it. You don't influence people on forums like this much. You influence people by getting the easy to reach mainstream people. You change the narratives, you put doubt in there, you sometimes even pay people to do things.

How Russia employs ‘hard soft power’ to influence overseas media and sow dissent and fear among foreign populations

A new study found that pliant local media in Ukraine and Georgia was manipulated by Moscow to present anti-Western narratives.

theconversation.com

"How Russia employs ‘hard soft power’ to influence overseas media and sow dissent and fear among foreign populations"
"Under this form of public diplomacy, governments mix in subtle threats to make the citizens of targeted countries feel unsafe."

"The overarching goals of such a strategy are to sow or exacerbate existing divisions, promote social chaos and extend the geopolitical reach of the responsible country."

"while undermining democratic institutions and social trust in the United States and its NATO allies."

"A content analysis of over 2,700 news stories from media sources from February to July 2021 showed that the Russian-language media based in Georgia and Ukraine consistently presented anti-Western narratives."

And it's not difficult to influence this. All you need to do is pay money to some journalists and they will do your bidding for you.

Using AI on the internet. Facebook was awash with the same nonsense AI messages about how this should happen and that should happen, during the election process. People wrote comments and many of these people were not real people. They were people who didn't use Facebook any more. Their accounts were hacked and then messages were sent via the AI claiming to be this person on Facebook.
We can look at many things that Russia does.

For example the Novichok poisoning in Salisbury in England

Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The way Russia reacted to the events, shows you how they operate. The British govt said it was probably Russia that did it. Everyone knows it was Russia that did it, because who else would try and kill a former FSB agent who defected to the UK? Putin is the only one.

But when the British said it was Novichok, the Russians said "the UK has novichok in Porton Down."

They didn't need to say anything else. They put doubt into people's minds and that was enough for them.

Same when the Russian backed rebels shot down a Malaysian Airlines plane. The Russians posted on their own media outlets, major media outlets, that they had a, get this, don't laugh too hard, a GOOGLE MAPS IMAGE of a Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down the plane.

It was enough, a cheap photoshopped photo, enough to spread doubt, until Russia had no choice but to admit that it was a surface to air missile that shot it down, meaning it could not have been a fighter jet doing it.

But then people forgot about that picture by then, so who cares?

 

[Deadstick]

You can't be that stupid, Putin has invaded Chechnya, Ukraine, Syria and Georgia twice.

That post shows just how ignorant and stupid you are, there is no cure for that level of stupidity.

 

[Zavulon]

Yeah, pass this off as nothing and make some silly comment.

There might be people on forums like this, but I doubt it. You don't influence people on forums like this much. You influence people by getting the easy to reach mainstream people. You change the narratives, you put doubt in there, you sometimes even pay people to do things.

How Russia employs ‘hard soft power’ to influence overseas media and sow dissent and fear among foreign populations

A new study found that pliant local media in Ukraine and Georgia was manipulated by Moscow to present anti-Western narratives.

theconversation.com

"How Russia employs ‘hard soft power’ to influence overseas media and sow dissent and fear among foreign populations"
"Under this form of public diplomacy, governments mix in subtle threats to make the citizens of targeted countries feel unsafe."

"The overarching goals of such a strategy are to sow or exacerbate existing divisions, promote social chaos and extend the geopolitical reach of the responsible country."

"while undermining democratic institutions and social trust in the United States and its NATO allies."

"A content analysis of over 2,700 news stories from media sources from February to July 2021 showed that the Russian-language media based in Georgia and Ukraine consistently presented anti-Western narratives."

And it's not difficult to influence this. All you need to do is pay money to some journalists and they will do your bidding for you.

Using AI on the internet. Facebook was awash with the same nonsense AI messages about how this should happen and that should happen, during the election process. People wrote comments and many of these people were not real people. They were people who didn't use Facebook any more. Their accounts were hacked and then messages were sent via the AI claiming to be this person on Facebook.
We can look at many things that Russia does.

For example the Novichok poisoning in Salisbury in England

Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The way Russia reacted to the events, shows you how they operate. The British govt said it was probably Russia that did it. Everyone knows it was Russia that did it, because who else would try and kill a former FSB agent who defected to the UK? Putin is the only one.

But when the British said it was Novichok, the Russians said "the UK has novichok in Porton Down."

They didn't need to say anything else. They put doubt into people's minds and that was enough for them.

Same when the Russian backed rebels shot down a Malaysian Airlines plane. The Russians posted on their own media outlets, major media outlets, that they had a, get this, don't laugh too hard, a GOOGLE MAPS IMAGE of a Ukrainian fighter jet shooting down the plane.

It was enough, a cheap photoshopped photo, enough to spread doubt, until Russia had no choice but to admit that it was a surface to air missile that shot it down, meaning it could not have been a fighter jet doing it.

But then people forgot about that picture by then, so who cares?

Wow! Do you really believe that the western people should become a doubtless fanatics meekly following orders of their (even less competent) leaders? Do you really believe that the sane, adult men can't understand what is right and what is wrong, what is good for them, and what is bad? Don't you believe in the competition, arguements and open discussions? Do you really believe that anybody (even Russians) should be declared guilty without without any proves (short of "they are Russians, they visited the town, therefore they are guilty in a capital murder")?

Comparing with western mass-media monsters even RT is a trifle, say nothing about ordinary Russian guys (like your humble servant), who just trying to learn something about you guys, and, may be, explain some obvious things missed by your government propaganda in return.
You know, something like that:


Critical thinking and open discussions are good, not bad.

 

[Shareprofit]

That post shows just how ignorant and stupid you are, there is no cure for that level of stupidity.

What part of my post is ignorant?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Wow! Do you really believe that the western people should become a doubtless fanatics meekly following orders of their (even less competent) leaders? Do you really believe that the sane, adult men can't understand what is right and what is wrong, what is good for them, and what is bad? Don't you believe in the competition, arguements and open discussions? Do you really believe that anybody (even Russians) should be declared guilty without without any proves (short of "they are Russians, they visited the town, therefore they are guilty in a capital murder")?

Comparing with western mass-media monsters even RT is a trifle, say nothing about ordinary Russian guys (like your humble servant), who just trying to learn something about you guys, and, may be, explain some obvious things missed by your government propaganda in return.
You know, something like that:


Critical thinking and open discussions are good, not bad.

Most people are ignorant and easily to manipulate. It's the same in the west as the east.

Romanians, Georgians etc are all open to manipulation, and Russia makes extensive use of that.

You think two guys just happened to go to Salisbury for a trip to see a cathedral huh?

There's a thing call "logic" and nothing about their trip was logical.

1) Most people buy return tickets on short trips abroad. Usually going from the same airport there and back. These guys went to four different airports. Not logical, but on its own not necessarily an issue.

2) They didn't go through passport control and security together. You'd think two mates traveling together would stick together.

3) Then they stayed in a hotel that A) wasn't in Salisbury. Why not? You're visiting the place. B) Was in London, okay, Salisbury doesn't have an airport. C) Wasn't near the airport, wasn't near a subway line to the airport, wasn't near a subway line that goes to the train station they used to go to Salisbury with.

You could say they didn't know what they were doing, just chose a random hotel in London, because they were flying there. But really, it's a little weird.

4) Then they took the train to Salisbury, but it was raining, so they came back.

Er... what? You travel by plane for one sole reason, and it's raining, so you go back to London without doing what you went there to do, which was see a cathedral, which.... is INSIDE, it doesn't rain inside the cathedral.

5) Then they went back to Salisbury the next day. The cost of tickets on the train, which they used, was more than their hotel, in all likelihood.

6) They just happened to go to Salisbury on the day (the second day) when a former FSB agent got poisoned.

7) They didn't do anything in London. They're claiming to be two gym guys who just wanted to go see things. People go to London first when they go to the UK, then they might go to Oxford or Cambridge. I've never been to Salisbury. The last time I went to the UK I went to Oxford and London. Why is Salisbury cathedral more impressive than say, St. Paul's cathedral, Westminster Cathedral, Canterbury Cathedral?

Nobody, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY travels to the UK just to go to Salisbury cathedral to see it without going to see loads of other cathedrals.

This isn't government propaganda. This is me looking at the situation and trying to understand it. I think I've done that, and all I see is two FSB agents going to the UK to kill a former FSB agent.

Nothing else makes sense.

 

[Deadstick]

What part of my post is ignorant?

All of it.

 

[Deadstick]

Most people are ignorant and easily to manipulate. It's the same in the west as the east.

Romanians, Georgians etc are all open to manipulation, and Russia makes extensive use of that.

You think two guys just happened to go to Salisbury for a trip to see a cathedral huh?

There's a thing call "logic" and nothing about their trip was logical.

1) Most people buy return tickets on short trips abroad. Usually going from the same airport there and back. These guys went to four different airports. Not logical, but on its own not necessarily an issue.

2) They didn't go through passport control and security together. You'd think two mates traveling together would stick together.

3) Then they stayed in a hotel that A) wasn't in Salisbury. Why not? You're visiting the place. B) Was in London, okay, Salisbury doesn't have an airport. C) Wasn't near the airport, wasn't near a subway line to the airport, wasn't near a subway line that goes to the train station they used to go to Salisbury with.

You could say they didn't know what they were doing, just chose a random hotel in London, because they were flying there. But really, it's a little weird.

4) Then they took the train to Salisbury, but it was raining, so they came back.

Er... what? You travel by plane for one sole reason, and it's raining, so you go back to London without doing what you went there to do, which was see a cathedral, which.... is INSIDE, it doesn't rain inside the cathedral.

5) Then they went back to Salisbury the next day. The cost of tickets on the train, which they used, was more than their hotel, in all likelihood.

6) They just happened to go to Salisbury on the day (the second day) when a former FSB agent got poisoned.

7) They didn't do anything in London. They're claiming to be two gym guys who just wanted to go see things. People go to London first when they go to the UK, then they might go to Oxford or Cambridge. I've never been to Salisbury. The last time I went to the UK I went to Oxford and London. Why is Salisbury cathedral more impressive than say, St. Paul's cathedral, Westminster Cathedral, Canterbury Cathedral?

Nobody, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY travels to the UK just to go to Salisbury cathedral to see it without going to see loads of other cathedrals.

This isn't government propaganda. This is me looking at the situation and trying to understand it. I think I've done that, and all I see is two FSB agents going to the UK to kill a former FSB agent.

Nothing else makes sense.

Nothing about the Skripal case makes sense it was a false flag, Skripal and his daughter were in a restaurant when they came out that is when they became sick, their was a third person in that Restaurant with the Skripals from MI5/6 but the UK Government placed what we call a D- notice on that information, that means people can't even say that third person was even there or existed no newspaper or other media can talk about it and there are newspaper reps on the D-notice committee, do you really think if those two guys were responsible for whatever happened they would risk walking through an airport with a military grade nerve agent?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Nothing about the Skripal case makes sense it was a false flag, Skripal and his daughter were in a restaurant when they came out that is when they became sick, their was a third person in that Restaurant with the Skripals from MI5/6 but the UK Government placed what we call a D- notice on that information, that means people can't even say that third person was even there or existed no newspaper or other media can talk about it and there are newspaper reps on the D-notice committee, do you really think if those two guys were responsible for whatever happened they would risk walking through an airport with a military grade nerve agent?

Yeah, what you've written is complete crap and you know it. But hey, consistency is a virtue... apparently.

 

[Deadstick]

Yeah, what you've written is complete crap and you know it. But hey, consistency is a virtue... apparently.

But you can't answer the points i made, can you answer the points made in this vid?

 

[frigidweirdo]

But you can't answer the points i made, can you answer the points made in this vid?

What's the point of answering things you just made up?

We know where the novichok was placed. It was placed on the Skripal's door handle.

You have a lot of Russian govt misinformation that they spread because it's cheap and easy. Nothing more.

 

[Deadstick]

What's the point of answering things you just made up?

We know where the novichok was placed. It was placed on the Skripal's door handle.

You have a lot of Russian govt misinformation that they spread because it's cheap and easy. Nothing more.

Like i said you can't answer the points i made or in the video, Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador not some conspiracy freak, the problem people like you have is you view the World through the prism of American propaganda, also Skripal was in a Russian prison for years for treason the Russians could have killed him there if they wanted same with that other false flag Navalny, he was in a Russian hospital who found no Novichok but they allowed him to go to Germany into a military hospital/Nato and surprise surprise they found traces of Novichok lol! and where are the Skripals they have not been seen since they left hospital? i think there is a good chance they are dead killed to shut them up, otherwise they would be on TV every week giving interviews films made and books published for propaganda.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Like i said you can't answer the points i made or in the video, Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador not some conspiracy freak, the problem people like you have is you view the World through the prism of American propaganda, also Skripal was in a Russian prison for years for treason the Russians could have killed him there if they wanted same with that other false flag Navalny, he was in a Russian hospital who found no Novichok but they allowed him to go to Germany into a military hospital/Nato and surprise surprise they found traces of Novichok lol! and where are the Skripals they have not been seen since they left hospital? i think there is a good chance they are dead killed to shut them up, otherwise they would be on TV every week giving interviews films made and books published for propaganda.

Well, the video has some dude talking about the D Notice committee, claiming that it's one of the most corrupt media environments on the planet.

Well, clearly this dude hasn't been to Russia, China or many of the other countries on this planet where the media isn't free in the slightest.

He's basically saying that hiding information because of national security is corrupt. Maybe, but the UK is one of the LEAST corrupt media environments out there.

The claim that this Craig Murray makes is that it's ridiculous that they got poisoned by Novichok and it took three hours for them to then suffer the effects of it.

But is it ridiculous? Or has this guy just decided the knows everything and then dismissed something?

The men behind the Cold War poison that surfaced in a quiet English town

Israel was reportedly deeply concerned that Anatoly Kuntsevich, one of the men behind 'Novichok', was working with Damascus, and repeatedly warned Moscow, but to no avail

www.timesofisrael.com

Vladimir Uglev was the first person to synthesize novichok in the USSR in 1975.

"He [Uglev] agreed with the theory that the poison probably was applied to a door handle at the Skripal home, perhaps modified so it was more viscous to stick better to the handle. Uglev added that the Skripals might have mitigated its effect by washing their hands."

This is the dude who basically invented Novichok and he says it's possible,

Simply said, we don't know how much novichok was used, we don't know what is was put in. They got this stuff through UK border security by placing it in a container, passing it off as some normal very day item.

It came in a liquid form, and the weather was foggy and humid which probably helped.

Uglev stated that when he cleaned, he used water to clean his hands along with sulfuric acid.

So... do we believe some guy who in passing makes comments about this, laughing about it saying it's ridiculous without any evidence, any information, claiming they both collapsed at exactly the same time. We don't know this, what we know is some nurse passed by and saw them both unconscious on the bench. He laughs that the person who found them happened to be the chief nurse for the British Army, as if being in Salisbury wouldn't make that possible, but Salisbury is near Salisbury plain and Bluford Camp which is 2 1/2 miles away which is a "super garrison" where a lot of army personnel end up doing a lot of training there.

He just laughs, as if laughing is evidence against what's being said.

So, again, bullshit.

 

[Deadstick]

Well, the video has some dude talking about the D Notice committee, claiming that it's one of the most corrupt media environments on the planet.

Well, clearly this dude hasn't been to Russia, China or many of the other countries on this planet where the media isn't free in the slightest.

He's basically saying that hiding information because of national security is corrupt. Maybe, but the UK is one of the LEAST corrupt media environments out there.

The claim that this Craig Murray makes is that it's ridiculous that they got poisoned by Novichok and it took three hours for them to then suffer the effects of it.

But is it ridiculous? Or has this guy just decided the knows everything and then dismissed something?

The men behind the Cold War poison that surfaced in a quiet English town

Israel was reportedly deeply concerned that Anatoly Kuntsevich, one of the men behind 'Novichok', was working with Damascus, and repeatedly warned Moscow, but to no avail

www.timesofisrael.com

Vladimir Uglev was the first person to synthesize novichok in the USSR in 1975.

"He [Uglev] agreed with the theory that the poison probably was applied to a door handle at the Skripal home, perhaps modified so it was more viscous to stick better to the handle. Uglev added that the Skripals might have mitigated its effect by washing their hands."

This is the dude who basically invented Novichok and he says it's possible,

Simply said, we don't know how much novichok was used, we don't know what is was put in. They got this stuff through UK border security by placing it in a container, passing it off as some normal very day item.

It came in a liquid form, and the weather was foggy and humid which probably helped.

Uglev stated that when he cleaned, he used water to clean his hands along with sulfuric acid.

So... do we believe some guy who in passing makes comments about this, laughing about it saying it's ridiculous without any evidence, any information, claiming they both collapsed at exactly the same time. We don't know this, what we know is some nurse passed by and saw them both unconscious on the bench. He laughs that the person who found them happened to be the chief nurse for the British Army, as if being in Salisbury wouldn't make that possible, but Salisbury is near Salisbury plain and Bluford Camp which is 2 1/2 miles away which is a "super garrison" where a lot of army personnel end up doing a lot of training there.

He just laughs, as if laughing is evidence against what's being said.

So, again, bullshit.

That Dude as you put it was a British Diplomat who went all over the World so i think he knows more about these things than you, and you still have not answered any points i made, why would Russia risk bringing that nerve agent into the Country through an airport, and that D notice committee is how they control the narrative, and yes the Salisbury Porton Down establishment is just down the road from where this incident happened, one of the first people on the scene was a British Army Doctor, lol! i have a Bridge in London i can sell you you know the whole thing is a circus so i have to assume you agree with it, did you actually watch the vid?

 

[frigidweirdo]

That Dude as you put it was a British Diplomat who went all over the World so i think he knows more about these things than you, and you still have not answered any points i made, why would Russia risk bringing that nerve agent into the Country through an airport, and that D notice committee is how they control the narrative, and yes the Salisbury Porton Down establishment is just down the road from where this incident happened, one of the first people on the scene was a British Army Doctor, lol! i have a Bridge in London i can sell you you know the whole thing is a circus so i have to assume you agree with it, did you actually watch the vid?

Yeah, that dude was Britain's ambassador to Uzbekistan for two or three years. He got fired, because instead of doing his job, which was to represent the British govt and its interests and communicate with the Uzbek govt, he went on a human rights campaign all on his own.

He's also been a member of the Lib Dems, various times, joining then quitting a few months later because he doesn't like one of their policies, a member of the SNP, Action for Independence (heard of them? Me neither) and Alba Party and now the Workers' Party of Britain, a socialist party. The leader of that party is George "Conspiracy Theory" Galloway. Basically a party for people who like to get all hot under the collar about things, but are absolutely useless at doing anything other than marching around with banners and getting everyone angry at stuff.

But yes, he was a civil servant and good enough at the job to get promoted. That doesn't mean he's right.

Why would Russia risk taking a nerve agent into the UK? Why wouldn't it?

Litvinenko was killed with plutonium. Russia got it into the country. Perepilichny was killed with poison too.

Russia doesn't just want to kill people. It wants people to fear them. It wants you to know it can kill you even if you think you're safe.

And you, like the dude in the video, seem to think "lol" is evidence. It's not.

 

[Deadstick]

Yeah, that dude was Britain's ambassador to Uzbekistan for two or three years. He got fired, because instead of doing his job, which was to represent the British govt and its interests and communicate with the Uzbek govt, he went on a human rights campaign all on his own.

He's also been a member of the Lib Dems, various times, joining then quitting a few months later because he doesn't like one of their policies, a member of the SNP, Action for Independence (heard of them? Me neither) and Alba Party and now the Workers' Party of Britain, a socialist party. The leader of that party is George "Conspiracy Theory" Galloway. Basically a party for people who like to get all hot under the collar about things, but are absolutely useless at doing anything other than marching around with banners and getting everyone angry at stuff.

But yes, he was a civil servant and good enough at the job to get promoted. That doesn't mean he's right.

Why would Russia risk taking a nerve agent into the UK? Why wouldn't it?

Litvinenko was killed with plutonium. Russia got it into the country. Perepilichny was killed with poison too.

Russia doesn't just want to kill people. It wants people to fear them. It wants you to know it can kill you even if you think you're safe.

And you, like the dude in the video, seem to think "lol" is evidence. It's not.

Why would Russia risk taking a nerve agent through an airport? have you ever been through an airport in particular as a Russian? they would have been targeted by UK authorities for special attention, by all accounts they didn't use false foreign passports, it's all bullshit and you bought it, even Litvenenkos father said Russia had nothing to do with it, it was probabl another Russian Oligarch living in the West like Beresovsky, he also died in mysterious circumstances, it was reported before he dies he was in contact with Russian officials about returning to Russia, well he could have told the Russians about how the British intelligence services used people like him, so he was silenced before he could return,as for Craig yes he was disgusted at the Regime in Uzbekistan torturing and killing people and the UK Governments support he left.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why would Russia risk taking a nerve agent through an airport? have you ever been through an airport in particular as a Russian? they would have been targeted by UK authorities for special attention, by all accounts they didn't use false foreign passports, it's all bullshit and you bought it, even Litvenenkos father said Russia had nothing to do with it, it was probabl another Russian Oligarch living in the West like Beresovsky, he also died in mysterious circumstances, it was reported before he dies he was in contact with Russian officials about returning to Russia, well he could have told the Russians about how the British intelligence services used people like him, so he was silenced before he could return,as for Craig yes he was disgusted at the Regime in Uzbekistan torturing and killing people and the UK Governments support he left.

Yeah, they used fake passports.

"It's all bullshit", is all you have. You haven't shown anything. You just say "it's bullshit, it's bullshit, it's bullshit".

Well, you've done this numerous times and it's kind of boring now, as it was then.

So, bye.

 

[Deadstick]

Yeah, they used fake passports.

"It's all bullshit", is all you have. You haven't shown anything. You just say "it's bullshit, it's bullshit, it's bullshit".

Well, you've done this numerous times and it's kind of boring now, as it was then.

So, bye.

Because it IS bullshit, did they use Israeli passports? no they used Russian ones fake or not, it's hard to talk with someone with so much sand in their ears.

 

[Zavulon]

Most people are ignorant and easily to manipulate. It's the same in the west as the east.

Romanians, Georgians etc are all open to manipulation, and Russia makes extensive use of that.

You think two guys just happened to go to Salisbury for a trip to see a cathedral huh?

There's a thing call "logic" and nothing about their trip was logical.

1) Most people buy return tickets on short trips abroad. Usually going from the same airport there and back. These guys went to four different airports. Not logical, but on its own not necessarily an issue.

2) They didn't go through passport control and security together. You'd think two mates traveling together would stick together.

3) Then they stayed in a hotel that A) wasn't in Salisbury. Why not? You're visiting the place. B) Was in London, okay, Salisbury doesn't have an airport. C) Wasn't near the airport, wasn't near a subway line to the airport, wasn't near a subway line that goes to the train station they used to go to Salisbury with.

You could say they didn't know what they were doing, just chose a random hotel in London, because they were flying there. But really, it's a little weird.

4) Then they took the train to Salisbury, but it was raining, so they came back.

Er... what? You travel by plane for one sole reason, and it's raining, so you go back to London without doing what you went there to do, which was see a cathedral, which.... is INSIDE, it doesn't rain inside the cathedral.

5) Then they went back to Salisbury the next day. The cost of tickets on the train, which they used, was more than their hotel, in all likelihood.

6) They just happened to go to Salisbury on the day (the second day) when a former FSB agent got poisoned.

7) They didn't do anything in London. They're claiming to be two gym guys who just wanted to go see things. People go to London first when they go to the UK, then they might go to Oxford or Cambridge. I've never been to Salisbury. The last time I went to the UK I went to Oxford and London. Why is Salisbury cathedral more impressive than say, St. Paul's cathedral, Westminster Cathedral, Canterbury Cathedral?

Nobody, ABSOLUTELY NOBODY travels to the UK just to go to Salisbury cathedral to see it without going to see loads of other cathedrals.

This isn't government propaganda. This is me looking at the situation and trying to understand it. I think I've done that, and all I see is two FSB agents going to the UK to kill a former FSB agent.

Nothing else makes sense.

It's simple. There are some facts, known for sure:
1. Two citizens of Russian federation got missed in the UK.
2. Instead of do what they were supposed to do according international regulations (allowing citizens in distress to meet with the representative of their country) HMG tell mad stories about spies and poisons, playing freaking masquerade with protection suits and other bullshit.
3. Instead of making proper investigation, they "found" two "suspicious foreigners" and blamed them (when they already left the country) without any single prove of their guilt.

The simplest explanation (don't forget about Okkam's razor) is obvious. The whole story about poisoning was simply fabricated by some incompetent British storywritter (not even from a CRBN-unit, for they know that Russian codenames for special poisons started with the letter "F" - Fagot, Fiola, Fenomen, etc or that elimination squads consists usually at five saboteurs). Skipals, highly likely were just shoot in their heads by the Brits and buried in some secret location. Then, the Brits just found two suspicious Russians and staged them. The simplest explanations for their "suspicious" behaviour is that they are really sportive "nutrients" traders, and their "nutrients" are really effective (something that WADA may call "doping" if they were knowing about it). They had special relationships with some British sportsmen, and they didn't want to disclosure the personalities of their customers.