Zone1 Tax the Rich! Make them Pay their Fair Share!

[hadit]

The wealthy benefit from the military more than working Americans

And they pay more for it.

 

[my2¢]

The wealthy benefit from the military more than working Americans

I think of it in more general terms. The way I see it is what gives value to the U.S. dollar is its backing by the US government, no matter whose pocket it is in. The more one has the more skin they have in the game, so to speak.

When I read in the OP, "each and every citizens 'tax burden' should initially be the same dollar amount," it struck me the same as believing the cost to insure a Nissan should be equal to that of a Bugatti.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Except we don't pay the same. Our tax laws are skewed to the rich. Warren Buffet once said that he pays less taxes than his secretary. She paid the standard income tax, say 25%, while he paid mostly capital gains tax, say 15%.

There is no such thing as a fair amount of tax since percentages vs absolute numbers give very different pictures. What seems fair to me would be everyone paying the same percentage of their income in taxes. Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

But the poor don't pay at a much higher rate.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Except we don't pay the same. Our tax laws are skewed to the rich. Warren Buffet once said that he pays less taxes than his secretary. She paid the standard income tax, say 25%, while he paid mostly capital gains tax, say 15%.

There is no such thing as a fair amount of tax since percentages vs absolute numbers give very different pictures. What seems fair to me would be everyone paying the same percentage of their income in taxes. Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

/—-/ The bottom 49% pay no income taxes.

 

[alang1216]

Right now the poor pay at a much higher rate since most taxes, like gas tax, are not progressive.

But the poor don't pay at a much higher rate.

Check your numbers and remember, income tax is not the only tax.

 

[alang1216]

/—-/ The bottom 49% pay no income taxes.

Check your numbers and remember, income tax is not the only tax.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Check your numbers and remember, income tax is not the only tax.

I've checked the numbers.
That's why I know you're wrong.

 

[Woodznutz]

The basic problem is the immense part of the economy that is tied up by such a tiny proportion of the economy's participants. Those upon whom the functioning of the economy and society depends in the 'day-to-day' have too little influence upon the financial aspects. If that "rich" minority were wise, it would see where this is going (and where it has gone in the past), and would be working toward solutions. Stonewalling and oppressing most likely will result in very negative outcomes for all.
Fundamentally, we need fresh approaches to economics and release ourselves from the false dichotomies that old-time ideologies would keep us bound to.

IOW, tax the rich.

 

[alang1216]

I've checked the numbers.
That's why I know you're wrong.

Check again.

Whether the poor pay more taxes than the rich depends heavily on how you define "taxes" (federal vs. state/local) and whether you are looking at the total amount paid or the percentage of income (tax rate).
Reddit +1
In the United States, the tax system is a mix of progressive (higher rates for higher income) and regressive (higher rates for lower income) elements.

The Short Answer

• By Percentage of Income (Effective Tax Rate): The poor often pay a higher share of their income in total taxes (federal, state, and local combined) than the rich, particularly when considering state and local taxes.
• By Total Dollar Amount: The rich pay a much larger amount of money in taxes than the poor.
  Reddit +3

---

Detailed Breakdown

1. Federal Taxes (Generally Progressive)
The federal tax system is designed to be progressive, meaning higher earners pay a higher percentage of their income.
Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy +1

• Income Tax: The top 1% of earners pay a significant portion of federal income taxes (roughly 40%). Low-income households often pay no federal income tax and may receive refundable tax credits (like the Earned Income Tax Credit) that make their average federal income tax rate negative.
• Payroll Taxes (Regressive): Payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare) are capped, meaning they take a larger percentage of income from the poor than from the wealthy.
  Center for American Progress +4

2. State and Local Taxes (Highly Regressive)
State and local tax systems are "upside-down," meaning they require a much greater share of income from low-income families than from wealthy families.
Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy

• Sales/Excise Taxes: Low-income families spend all or most of their income on basic needs, which are often subject to sales taxes. High-income families save and invest more, avoiding these taxes.
• Impact: In 41 states, high-income families are taxed at lower rates than everyone else. In states like Florida and Washington, the poorest 20% pay up to 5-6 times more of their income in taxes than the top 1%.
  Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy +2

3. Why the "Rich" Can Pay Lower Rates
Wealthy individuals often have their income derived from assets (capital gains) rather than labor (wages).
Center for American Progress

• Capital Gains: Long-term capital gains and dividends are taxed at lower rates than ordinary income.
• Tax Avoidance: The wealthy can use loopholes, deductions (like mortgage interest), and legal strategies to lower their taxable income.
• Unrealized Gains: Stock and asset appreciation that is not sold is not taxed at all.

 

[Woodznutz]

A couple of years ago, at a family function (graduation party), the subject of taxation came up. It wasn't me that brought it up, but I did make the mistake of kicking the hornets' nest.

The subject was mostly about the economy and Trump (again, it wasn't me), and one of my in-laws said something about "tax cuts for the rich," or "the rich not paying their fair share."

I wanted a clear answer and explanation for how to know or calculate what "their fair share" should be. That's all.

You would have thought I threatened them with a gun or something.

Needless to say, I never got an answer.

In my view, each and every citizens "tax burden" should initially be the same dollar amount. Thereafter, there should be taxes based on usage. For example, if you have a trucking company with 200 trucks running up and down the road every day.

My reasoning goes like this.

If Trump, Musk, or any other Billionaire were standing in line to buy a gallon of milk at the grocery store, should their cost for their gallon of milk be exponentially higher than what I pay, just because they have and make more money than I do?

In my view, fairness means we all pay the same.

Change My Mind.

Fairness is occurring. If someone sits on their ass playing video games all day it's pretty fair if they don't get ahead financially. Same with the lazy, crooks, drug users, alcoholics, the uneducated, the unskilled, those who don't care for their health, those who start families before they can support them, those who buy every new shiny thing that they can't afford, those who live on credit, those who are unemployable because of mental problems, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Woodznutz]

The more money that remains in the private sector the better. The government spends money like a drunken sailor (apologies to drunken sailors).

 

[Woodznutz]

Our tax system is so unfair that millions are leaving the country (Oh wait, millions are actually clamoring to get in!)

 

[Cellblock2429]

Check your numbers and remember, income tax is not the only tax.

/-----/ DUHHHHH Everyone pays sales tax, tolls, and government fees. We're talking income tax.

 

[alang1216]

/-----/ DUHHHHH Everyone pays sales tax, tolls, and government fees. We're talking income tax.

You're talking income taxes, I'm talking taxes. Feel free to cherry-pick what you want but almost all money paid to the government is taxes. Some are obvious, some are hidden like tariffs.

 

[Billiejeens]

/-----/ DUHHHHH Everyone pays sales tax, tolls, and government fees. We're talking income tax.

Wealthy people pay more of those too.

They purchase more stuff, travel more, etc...........

 

[DGS49]

Any "fair" tax system on individuals would have a maximum tax, expressed in dollars, quantifying the basic fair principle that at that point, you have paid "enough." In 2021, Elon Musk paid eleven billion dollars in Federal Income Tax. He should never have to pay another dollar for at least three generations.

In the current "debate" it is noteworthy that Leftists (e.g., Sanders) want "more" money from "millionaires and billionaires" in order to buy more votes for Leftist politicians - housing, food stamps, free healthcare, and so on. Nothing about fighting the deficit that will swallow the Federal government in the foreseeable future.

There is no limit to what a Leftist can do with OPM. It is up to the sane, three-digit-IQ folks not to let it happen. Long live the Tenth Amendment, even if Congress denies its existence.

 

[rightwinger]

IOW, tax the rich.

That’s where the money is

 

[Woodznutz]

That’s where the money is

That's where the wealth is. The money is out in the economy making more wealth and providing jobs.

When a company reinvests profits in company growth it involves increasing its labor force, or the labor force of other companies.

 

[Lisa558]

The leftists always hit back with, “but…but….but…..poor people pay sales taxes!”

What they omit to mention is that they take out far more than they pitch in, via food stamps, Medicaid, free breakfasts and lunches, subsidizing housing, and TANF payments.

The average welfare family draws $41k in benefits. So big deal….they pay in $1000 or so in sales taxes.

Contributing members of society not only pay in much more in sales tax, they also pay federal and state income tax that poor people do not AND they pay for their own food, their own medical, their own housing, and their kids’ lunches.

 

[Concerned American]

Except we don't pay the same. Our tax laws are skewed to the rich. Warren Buffet once said that he pays less taxes than his secretary. She paid the standard income tax, say 25%, while he paid mostly capital gains tax, say 15%.

Warren Buffett's income primarily comes from dividends and capital gains, which are taxed at a maximum rate of 23.8%. This includes a 20% tax rate for capital gains and qualifying dividends, plus an additional 3.8% for net investment income tax.
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