Supremes: Hobby Lobby wins

[Ibentoken]

The left tells you to stay out of their bedrooms and and that it's their body, until it's time to pay the bill. Then it's your duty or else you are conducting a war on women.

Go to hell.

 

[mamooth]

It just feels like this case is so going to eventually lead to a fiasco.

Nah. The 5 justices prevented that by spitting on the Equal Protection Clause, and all the righties here are joining in. When the right is on a bullying crusade, the Constitution is just a pesky inconvenience.

To be more specific, they declared that their decision only applies to contraception and nothing else. Apparently, religious beliefs only matter if they are right-wing Christian religious beliefs. Consistent people would say that such a decision should have either covered all religious beliefs or none, but these are conservatives, who have never let consistency get in the way of a power grab.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear [MENTION=25283]Sallow[/MENTION] [MENTION=20709]JFK_USA[/MENTION] [MENTION=20704]Nosmo King[/MENTION]:
This is why conservatives/Constitutionalists argue to keep
HEALTH CARE OUT OF GOVT

Health care inherently involves PERSONAL choices and beliefs,
not just abortion and reproductive health choices,
but POLITICAL BELIEFS about govt role and relationship between people/states

we would NOT HAVE SUCH conflicts (with blood transfusions, which
tests to pay for, etc etc.) if these decisions remain PRIVATE
for PEOPLE COMPANIES and STATES to decide

NOT FEDERAL GOVT to try to make "ONE BLANKET POLICY"
FOR ALL PEOPLE/ALL STATES COMBINED who have DIVERSE BELIEFS

This is the same problem with suing over textbooks in public schools
The whole issue could be AVOIDED by NOT FORCING school curricula
under "ONE PUBLIC POLICY" -- let each district decide for themselves if they can't agree statewide.
NOT "ONE GLOBAL POLICY" when people have different beliefs.

We never solved that problem of conflicts over religious beliefs
under public schools, and now it's multiplied with personal, religious
and political beliefs about health care REQUIRED under a federal policy.

Do you SEE why people protested this being under Federal Govt?
it was to AVOID these implications that cannot be avoided
because people inherently have their own beliefs about health care
and treatment, personal choices and policies, and the role of govt getting involved.

What a huge mess. This is why those conflicts should have been
addressed BEFORE passing any such bill. The systems would have to be separated by party BEFORE this, not wait until afterwards to find out which areas cause conflict.
there are too many.

Have to see what the scope of the ruling is

On the surface, it can go well beyond birth control

If my boss is Jehovah's Witness, will the insurance he provides have to cover blood transfusions? If my boss is Southern Baptist and my child needs stem cell therapy, will the insurance he provides be required to cover it?

The Conservatives are crowing about this Hobby Lobby decision. Well, crowing right up until they are forced to realize that the religious knife cuts deeper than contraceptives.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The left tells you to stay out of their bedrooms and and that it's their body, until it's time to pay the bill. Then it's your duty or else you are conducting a war on women.

Go to hell.

Cover Viagra, cover Birth Control. BC is a whole lot cheaper than paying for pregnancy. Common sense.

 

[Little-Acorn]

 

[Ibentoken]

The left tells you to stay out of their bedrooms and and that it's their body, until it's time to pay the bill. Then it's your duty or else you are conducting a war on women.

Go to hell.

Cover Viagra, cover Birth Control. BC is a whole lot cheaper than paying for pregnancy. Common sense.

None of my government's business and certainly none of mine. If you're big enough to breed, then you get a job and pay for it. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

[Darkwind]

This decision says companies can impose their 'religious' dogma on their employees thus walling them off from medical coverage. It says the employer's 'religious' rights are protected, yet the employee's religious rights can take a back seat so long as they draw a paycheck.

Surely there are aspects of Obamacare that badly need adjusting. But this decision makes a claim of 'religion' strong enough to harm or kill an employee and call it regrettable, but "God's" will.

Not a single one of the drugs HL is not covering is life saving or disease controlling drug so your argument is worthless beyond words....

In this particular case. But when a Jehovah Witness employer refuses to provide health coverage for blood transfusions because that procedure is against his religion, what will you say? When a Southern Baptist employer refuses to provide health coverage that covers stem cell therapy because that procedure runs counter to his 'religious' belief, where will you turn?

This decision puts the religious rights of employers above the religious rights of employees. Corporate Sharia Law is upheld by SCOTUS.

And Conservatives think this is a victory for freedom? How?

Actually, you are incorrect in your assessment of what can and cannot be done by companies in the name of religion.

Ironically, before Obamacare, a gap in coverage for individuals who wanted more than a company was offering was available. A person, at their own expense, could purchase insurance that covered specific treatments, such as the day after pill, or other abortion procedures. Now, Obamacare limits consumers to specific plans that incur full costs instead of targeted coverage.

In reality, no medical coverage or drugs have been banned from people. No woman has been barred from getting reproductive healthcare. What has been ruled is that a company cannot be forced to pay for it.

The sky is not falling, and the world will not be coming to an end anytime soon.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The left tells you to stay out of their bedrooms and and that it's their body, until it's time to pay the bill. Then it's your duty or else you are conducting a war on women.

Go to hell.

Cover Viagra, cover Birth Control. BC is a whole lot cheaper than paying for pregnancy. Common sense.

Why you can't get a woody?

 

[candycorn]

It would appear that there is now precedent for doing so; if the court has now recongnized that companies can have a religion.

Closely held companies, i.e. non public ones.

so what

This is what I'm saying;

Anyone read this last issue of Time magazine? The Green Family that owns Hobby Lobby is not the devil you may think they are. What I'm asking is that if you are a woman who is a sales person and work for, lets say, a car dealership that has something like 10-15 employees and is either owned or one day sold to a family that is Islamic, can they now state that their religious beliefs are that men shouldn't work for women and not promote you based on the grounds of that belief?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Closely held corporations can have a religious viewpoint.

I love it when the SCOTUS says "FUCK YOU" to Obama!

 

[ClosedCaption]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Closely held corporations can have a religious viewpoint.

Damn, I was right all along. I wonder if Jake will apologize for calling me crazy. At least Jones will finally have to adopt my interpretation of the RFRA instead of pretending it doesn't apply. If he can admit he was wrong, that would be even better.

Yes, I am gloating, so what. The other side would be gloating if they won.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Have to see what the scope of the ruling is

On the surface, it can go well beyond birth control

If my boss is Jehovah's Witness, will the insurance he provides have to cover blood transfusions? If my boss is Southern Baptist and my child needs stem cell therapy, will the insurance he provides be required to cover it?

The Conservatives are crowing about this Hobby Lobby decision. Well, crowing right up until they are forced to realize that the religious knife cuts deeper than contraceptives.

Maybe you need to seek employment with a boss who is more to your liking? Last time I looked around, no one was forced to work for any specific employer, slavery has been done with for a long time in this country.

I agree. When people take the time to choose the employer they would like to work for, they take into consideration if the company provides them with paid vacation and paid personal time. You have the ability now to choose the company that best provides the health care coverage you need. For those who object to the ruling, are we going to likewise FORCE a company to provide personal days off for their employees or a minimum of two weeks paid vacation time? How unrealistic do you want to push YOUR way into the pockets of employers? Perhaps if these same individuals put their personal wallets where their mouth is and took some financial risk of their own in starting their own business, they can run it the way they desire and pay for all these added "perks" they want these employees to carry.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's a profoundly terrible ruling.

Because the Constitution is a profoundly terrible document, right?

 

[Kosh]

The racist far left Obama drones would much rather see the world burn than admit they were wrong!

 

[candycorn]

It is.

It has opened the door to religious discrimination.

This was an extremely stupid ruling.

It's nonsense.

I want you to do me a favor. Take this out of the insurance argument.

Let me ask you this: Lets say that someday a company is founded by a Muslim that becomes, lets say, a nationwide chain of car dealerships. As we know, Muslims have a big problem being subordinate to a woman.

Could a company that is completely privately held by a Muslim family, find religious footing to not promote women?

They most certainly can deny promotions, but they aren't stupid enough to say it was based on the sex of the person.

Why not? This ruling apparently gives license to do so--if your religion's tenants are that men should not be subordinate women as is the case in Islam from the best I can tell.

How about any Christians or Jews that they have on the payroll. Would they get promoted in a closely held muslim company, if they even hired any?

As far as I know, there is nothing in the religion about males being subordinate to other males who are Christians or Jews.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A national corporate chain doesn't have to pay their employees a decent wage or health benefits.

Great ruling, Supreme Court! You've made morons happy.

Hobby Lobby provides better insurance that you will ever get from Obamacare, but keep pretending you are an intelligent person.

 

[The Rabbi]

The left tells you to stay out of their bedrooms and and that it's their body, until it's time to pay the bill. Then it's your duty or else you are conducting a war on women.

Go to hell.

Cover Viagra, cover Birth Control. BC is a whole lot cheaper than paying for pregnancy. Common sense.

Why you can't get a woody?

They way he likes it, he doesn't need an erection for sex. It's the other guy's responsibility. Just like his outlook on life.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree, although I say that with the caveat that I haven't read the decision in its entirety.

On the other hand, conservatives should be thrilled that it's a small win, in principle,

for Sharia Law.

Sharia Law is based on religious beliefs and doctrines. If the Court has held that religious 'laws' can be exempted from having to adhere to other protected rights in the Constitution,

then Sharia law becomes superior to the Constitution.

You should be happy because they didn't even come close to that nonsense.

 

[candycorn]

Sure.


Now you can answer a question.

Why would a woman, knowing she may not receive a promotion because she is a woman, choose to work for your hypothetical Muslim Company?

Companies get sold all the time; should I have to give up my career if my new employers are Muslim? How would I be able to find out if they are Muslim? I don't know the faith of my current company's owners.... In fact, with the exception of my first job, I haven't known the religious faith of any of my employers.

Partnerships have buy-outs all the time too. What if your family-held-business decides they want to convert to Islam; should I have to quit because of their religious beliefs getting in the way of my career?

I'm really not trying to play "gotcha"; I was curious if this opens the door to the Muslim family to employ this argument for not promoting women.

Can you answer it?

I did answer it. I think it was post #98.

The answer is YES, YOU WOULD NEED TO CHANGE JOBS. It's called property rights. You buy something, you own it. Employees have had to change jobs for many reasons, and I'm certain that Unfairness is at the top of each one's excuse.

Grow Up.

Thanks for the clarity. Swallow must be right then. If you're okay with this--that you can be discriminated against--LEGALLY--because of the owner's faith then today is a dark day.

Not so much if the question is contraception but if your career is now jeopardized simply because of your gender and the court approves of it...we are in trouble.