Stimulus Checks 2? Or "Go Forth and DIE!"

[Papageorgio]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

None of them died of capitalism. The corona virus, is not a product of capitalism.

Honestly, our nation fared way better than some countries that have government run health care.

Additionally, the evidence suggests that is because of socialism, that many patients are dying. We already know for a fact, that you get better care if you are not a Medicare or Medicaid patient.

Sorry. You spout too many hallucinations to bother arguing against.

Translation: Andy makes many great points that I don’t have answers to.

 

[quarantine]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

States and countries that had little or no lockdown have done pretty well. There is no right or wrong way in all this. This virus is impossible to escape I"m afraid. If you feel you need to isolate yourself from public, then do so. I am. If you don't fear the virus and think you'll do just fine, it's not my business to stop you.

 

[Leo123]

I want to go forth AND get government money just like those on Welfare. Hell I PAID for it!!! Take the government tit away from the e welfare leeches and give it to American intact families. They NEED it now because of anti-Constitutional lock downs preventing decent folks from making a living. Cut aid to single mothers and make the sperm donors support their offspring. It's time to cull the herd.

The biggest leeches are corporate leeches and their corporate welfare. Every year they put out a list of corporations that didn't pay any taxes at all. Next, if you are ok with people dying from spreading the coronavirus, how about making yourself one of those people and kill yourself. Cull the herd in a positive direction.

You're pretty nasty wishing I kill myself. **** off dickhead.

Well you don't care if other people die. What makes you so special.

I never said that fuckhead.

Not in exactly that way. But by saying everybody should go back to work despite the plague, you are sentencing who knows how many hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people to death. Which. like it or not, makes you worse than just a fuckhead.

That's your OPINION only. No reason to misquote someone so you can get nasty.

 

[Andylusion]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

Have y'all gotten "your" checks? I'm surprised that my wife and I haven't. She told me she filed our taxes last year, and I believed her. (-: Our daughter was not a dependent last year, and she has not received one either.

I have direct deposit with the IRS, so mine was in my account April 30th. They say those who are getting paper checks, they might all not be sent out until September of this year.

We are getting paper checks and one can go onto the site and see the progress of their check. Site said ours is now in the mail.

Get my payment | Internal Revenue Service

The Get My Payment application is no longer available. You can still claim a missing payment and view your payment history.

www.irs.gov

That was stimulus checks 1. How many months were they supposed to last. From the people I see on the news who can't pay rent or waiting in long lines for food, I think it's time for a second round of stimulus checks. And why not. It's only money. Our national debt is already so large that it is basically an insanely large number on a tally sheet. What difference is 3 or 40 trillion more going to make.

Once we can no longer pay the interest on our debt, we lose our credit rating. When we lose our national credit rating, it's not that much different than your personal credit rating being low. Nobody will lend you money.

We don't need ******* foreign money. You know, there was a time in Germany when unemployment was rampant and people literally needed a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread with. The holy Hitler fixed all that.

I'm not sure you really want to make that comparison. And it's not actually true.

First it is exactly because they were not getting foreign money, that caused the Weimar Republican to be ruined.

But to say that holy Hitler fixed all that, is kind of a stretch. First, Hitler had the advantage of having tons of socialized companies.

The Weimar Republic, had nationalized dozens of industries and utilities. Of course, as with any country that goes on a nationalize spree, the results were damaging to the economy.

Hitler was able to fund the government, in part, by selling off (privatizing) those companies.

Further, Hitler gained more funding by those companies, by supplying them with slave labor. Many companies supported Hitler even into the end stages of World War 2, because they were making a killing from the Nazi supplies of free labor.

Lastly, and this is lesser known, but Hitler looted the banks.

Macroeconomics in Germany: The forgotten lesson of Hjalmar Schacht

Despite facing many of the same challenges, Germany’s current macroeconomic policy is substantially different to those of other countries, in part due to the economy legacy of Walter Eucken. This column considers the economic policy of Hjalmar Schacht, whose ‘MEFO-bills’ monetary solution ended...

voxeu.org

When the MEFO-bills came due, the government of Germany required that banks purchase the MEFO-Bills, thus bringing revenue into the government, to ironically, pay back the bills.

This as you might imagine, had the effect of looting people's savings accounts, because banks would have MEFO-Bills instead of money, and simply couldn't pay back some of the people. Of course no one complained because this was the height of the Nazi power in Germany, and no one dared risk having the Gestapo show up.

And when you combine the privatization, the slave labor, the war spending, plus sending millions of otherwise unemployed into the military.... yeah economy recovered.

However, you are actually not correct in saying the Germans did not need foreign money. Foreign money was one of the primary goals of the Nazi German government.

Hjalmar Schacht, Mefo Bills and the Restoration of the German Economy 1933-1939

So, I was doing a bit of that aimless reading one so often does on the internet and I came across the transcript from the trial of Hjalmar Schacht at Nuremberg after the war. Schacht was, of course…

fixingtheeconomists.wordpress.com

Hjalmar Schacht was the chief of the Nazi economic plan. He testified at Nuremberg, the following...

There were three main features of the “New Plan” as devised by Schacht: (1) restriction of the demand for such foreign exchange as would be used for purposes unrelated to the conspirators’ rearmament program; (2) increase of the supply of foreign exchange, as a means of paying for essential imports which could not otherwise be acquired; and (3) clearing agreements and other devices obviating the need for foreign exchange

To summarize:
1. Restrict the use of foreign exchange for Nazi purposes.
2. Increase the amount of foreign exchange for Nazi purposes.
3. Make policies that reduced the need for foreign exchange.

So they did need foreign currency, and quite a bit of it.

Foreign currency was so important, that they put in place rationing of gasoline and rubber. People couldn't buy tires for their cars, or fuel for their cars, so that the Nazis could use those foreign currency, to buy the weapons and supplies they wanted.

They tried in some cases to get agreements to exchange goods for fuel and rubber, so they could use more of the foreign currency for what they wanted.

But... the bottom line is, Hitler most certainly did use foreign currency, and a lot of it.

Regardless, I'm not sure if your solution of not needing foreign currency, by having the government loot the banks, and taking away all your savings, is the best possible solution.

And let's not forget that, ultimately those wide spread investments into the economy, had the end resulted in nearly 5 million dead, and half the country doomed to impoverishment and starvation under the Soviets.

 

[Andylusion]

I want to go forth AND get government money just like those on Welfare. Hell I PAID for it!!! Take the government tit away from the e welfare leeches and give it to American intact families. They NEED it now because of anti-Constitutional lock downs preventing decent folks from making a living. Cut aid to single mothers and make the sperm donors support their offspring. It's time to cull the herd.

The biggest leeches are corporate leeches and their corporate welfare. Every year they put out a list of corporations that didn't pay any taxes at all. Next, if you are ok with people dying from spreading the coronavirus, how about making yourself one of those people and kill yourself. Cull the herd in a positive direction.

You're pretty nasty wishing I kill myself. **** off dickhead.

He is a terrible awful human being.

 

[Leo123]

I want to go forth AND get government money just like those on Welfare. Hell I PAID for it!!! Take the government tit away from the e welfare leeches and give it to American intact families. They NEED it now because of anti-Constitutional lock downs preventing decent folks from making a living. Cut aid to single mothers and make the sperm donors support their offspring. It's time to cull the herd.

The biggest leeches are corporate leeches and their corporate welfare. Every year they put out a list of corporations that didn't pay any taxes at all. Next, if you are ok with people dying from spreading the coronavirus, how about making yourself one of those people and kill yourself. Cull the herd in a positive direction.

You're pretty nasty wishing I kill myself. **** off dickhead.

He is a terrible awful human being.

Yeah that's what quarantine does to people.

 

[Andylusion]

If capitalism can't create the jobs needed for people to sustain themselves, then government should step in and do so.

How? Government doesn't produce product or service for profit. Government doesn't create jobs--the private sector creates jobs. All government can do is make it more or less inviting for the private sector to do so.

Jobs were never created so people can earn a living. Jobs are created because an investor needs help in producing those products or services for a profit. Jobs are not a public or private obligation to society.

\

How? You mean you are actually interested in learning? Why do I find that impossible to believe. But if you are interested, I will tell you where to find the information you seek. Watch the documentary, "Capitalism: A love story." I don't agree with absolutely everything in it. But if you watched it, you would learn something. You should also watch the documentary, "Where to invade next." The same story there. And you will learn something.

What non-capitalist country, that had the ability to invade a neighbor, never did?

Venezuela under Hugo Chavez almost invaded Columbia.

Columbia has never attempted to invade Venezuela.

I don't get where this ridiculously stupid view comes from, that Capitalist has anything to do with military conquest. You have to be a moron to believe that.

 

[Andylusion]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

Really? Are you going to grow your own food from now on? Are you going to create heat in your home? Are you going to never go anywhere unless you walk or ride a bike? Are you going to stop taking any and all medications you're on? Are you willing to lose your house or apartment and build a shack in the middle of the woods somewhere?

We are not insects, we are human beings. We are people that survive only because of a modern society, which of course requires money to participate.

What has most people bitching is being able to do business. Farming and food production is just a small part of it. Though it is the most important part. Also, as long as gas and electricity are being produced, heating a house is no problem. Next, as human beings, we should be able to better than bug civilizations. And they don't use money.

Modern society uses money to survive. You can't live without it. Hell, out in the sticks, we have several Amish communities. Many of them have jobs because money is not optional--it's a necessity. Given the fact there is only one way for most to get money, that's what we need to do. Our government is traveling dangerous territory right now. The quicker we get to the point we can no longer spend (and yes, that day is coming) the quicker our country will collapse.

Economically, our country has already collapsed. That is as far as the value of money goes. Because we can never pay back the amount that we owe. Even before the coronavirus, our national debt kept growing and growing. Ever economist I have ever heard speaking about it said that it was unsustainable. Sooner or later, the crash would come. Well let it happen now. Flush the dollar down the toilet, erase our debt and create a new currency. Just like the holy Hitler did with MEFO currency. And give every poor working age adult in the US a $12,000 new dollar stimulus check to see them through the coronavirus quarantine period. Or maybe they should make it a $24,000 check.

Because we can never pay back the amount that we owe.

Who said we had to or should?

Flush the dollar down the toilet, erase our debt and create a new currency.

Pay your bills, deadbeat.

And give every poor working age adult in the US a $12,000 new dollar stimulus check to see them through the coronavirus quarantine period.

Nah.

At one time in France they had a lot of "deadbeats." The French built guillotines to deal with those who treated them as deadbeats. If capitalism can't create the jobs needed for people to sustain themselves, then government should step in and do so. The Chinese did it with building the Great Wall. The Egyptians did it with building the pyramids. Along with many other great public works that various civilizations had created throughout history.

Yeah, and that resulted in devastation for France. You need to remember historically what the result of that ideology was. Thousands on thousands of French were slaughtered in mass executions, which ended up not killing just aristocrats, but everyone. That's why they called it the reign of terror.

And with the destruction of the stable government, institution of mass conscription, civil war, and then the dictatorship of Napoleon, which forced thousands more citizens into fighting wars, and large scale deaths.

And the long term effects of the Revolution, resulted in nearly the entire 1800s in France being nothing but power struggles and assassinations, and political exiles.

It is very clear that utter destruction of France in World War 1, and the subjugation of France in World War 2, can all be traced back to the French revolution.

You pointing to the French revolution as a model to follow, proves you are utterly incompetent on this subject.

BS.

Name one thing, that as not true?

 

[Andylusion]

I want to go forth AND get government money just like those on Welfare. Hell I PAID for it!!! Take the government tit away from the e welfare leeches and give it to American intact families. They NEED it now because of anti-Constitutional lock downs preventing decent folks from making a living. Cut aid to single mothers and make the sperm donors support their offspring. It's time to cull the herd.

The biggest leeches are corporate leeches and their corporate welfare. Every year they put out a list of corporations that didn't pay any taxes at all. Next, if you are ok with people dying from spreading the coronavirus, how about making yourself one of those people and kill yourself. Cull the herd in a positive direction.

You're pretty nasty wishing I kill myself. **** off dickhead.

Well you don't care if other people die. What makes you so special.

I never said that fuckhead.

Not in exactly that way. But by saying everybody should go back to work despite the plague, you are sentencing who knows how many hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people to death. Which. like it or not, makes you worse than just a fuckhead.

People are dying right now.

Do you not care?
Makes you worse than just a sh!thead.

 

[quarantine]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

States and countries that had little or no lockdown have done pretty well. There is no right or wrong way in all this. This virus is impossible to escape I"m afraid. If you feel you need to isolate yourself from public, then do so. I am. If you don't fear the virus and think you'll do just fine, it's not my business to stop you.

I have never heard of any country with no lock down. From what I hear, I think Sweden has a limited one. But that isn't the point. All the experts agree that without taking steps to contain the virus, things will be much worse. And there is likely to be a second wave. But as far as president Chump seems to feel, it doesn't matter how many tens of thousands, possibly millions die. He is against any future shutdown.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

[

Stimulus Checks 2? Or "Go Forth and DIE!"

I’ll go with Histrionic-Laden False Dichotomies for $1,000, Alex.

.

Trump is talking about opening up the economy again. The number of deaths be damned. I disagree.

That's if you believe we can't open the economy back up without massive spread of Covid. If people take reasonable precautions, wash hands a lot, when not capable, use hand sanitizer, wear masks, I think we can get by.

Maybe we should at least wait until people can get some god damned protective equipment. Most of the people I see have to use home made masks. That isn't good enough. On another note, those masks that have the little ventilator in front are like "**** you" masks. They will filter the air that goes in. But the air that gets breathed out just goes out the vent. That isn't good enough. It also drives me crazy when I see people wearing a mask that isn't covering their nose. Your mouth and nose are just two different openings to the same hole. It would be better if they had a mask that just covered their nose and kept their mouths shut.

Here is the problem with all this: First of all, it seems to be politically divided. Secondly, there is no evidence that shutdowns have had any better results than non-shutdown countries or states. In fact, some statistics suggest that states and countries in Europe who didn't shut down had better results than those that did.

Now I'm not saying this as a 25 year old kid who participates in mixed martial arts, I say this as a 60 year old with several compromising health conditions; one of them the most deadliest when combined with the Covid virus. Until we have evidence that shutdowns could end this thing, then my opinion is open everything up, and use reasonable precautions as I do. I don't like doing it, but I also don't want to see millions suffer because of people like me.

Throughout recorded history, quarantine has always been the way to stop the spread of disease. It may not have always worked. But if it even slows some plague down, it is worth the effort.

The national debt is now 22 trillion dollars. The closer we get to the point of not being able to pay the interest on this debt, the closer we are to an entire collapse of this country. Right now they are saying SS is quickly approaching insolvency. We are running out of money because our contributions to the system have dwindled severely since the shutdown began. I don't know how old you are, but if you're not on SS just yet or near it, you have a lot to worry about for your retirement years.

We need to get this country back to work, not only for individuals, but for the security of this nation. Every generation before us tried to leave a better country behind to the younger, and it's been very successful thus far. It's one thing if we no longer do that, but leaving a country in worse shape than we got it is a tragedy.

 

[Andylusion]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

Where does the money come from????

The same place it comes from now. Pretend land. Our fiat currency is probably over 20 trillion in debt. It doesn't matter if it is 40 trillion. Though before the coronavirus thing hit, the U.S. was paying around 420 billion dollars a year just on the interest of our national debt. Which is basically money flushed down the toilet. And we just burrow more money to pay that. We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it! Apart from the national debt, we also have around 61 trillion worth of unfunded obligations. And I don't want to split the hair between a debt and an obligation.

We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it!

But you want to borrow more money for handouts to you?

You're not real bright, are you?

Usury is for suckers and slaves.

Well ok....

But understand that if you eliminate Usury, then you are not going to borrow anymore.

That means if you don't have money for a car, then you simply don't get a car.

And if there isn't money for Social Security, then there is no Social Security.

If you don't have money for education, then you simply don't get education.

If there is no money for Medicare, then you simply don't get Medicare.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the concept of banning Usury. But you need to understand what that means. No credit cards. If you want to go out to eat, because some friends came into town unexpected, and you don't have money.... you don't go out to eat.

Are you ok with this?

You don't need usury to have any of that. When inflation heats up, the fed increases interests payments. If the economy is doing poorly, the fed nearly eliminates interest payments-usury.

Without Usury, it does not matter what the Fed does.... if you don't have the money to buy something... then you are not going to be able to buy it. No matter what the Fed does.

You don't make any sense.

If you want to buy a house.... and there is no Usury... why would anyone lend you the money to buy a house? They wouldn't.

Doesn't matter what the Fed does. Why would I loan you $100,000 to buy a house, if I can't earn a profit off of loaning you the money? Without Usury, I would get back $100,000 on my $100,000 loan.

Why would I do this? I wouldn't.

If I'm a bank, I'm not going to give you a mortgage, because why would I do something that earns me nothing? Has nothing to do with the Fed. Fed has zero influence on this choice.

I'm simply not going to loan you the money. It would be better for me to invest that $100,000 in stocks. At least with stocks I'll get a return on my investment.

No Usury, means no money for you. If you don't have the cash, you don't get the stuff.

If you are ok with that, so am I. I'm all for banning Usury. But you need to understand... no house unless you have cash. No car unless you have cash. Doesn't matter what the Fed does. No one is going to loan you money, if they can't make a profit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

States and countries that had little or no lockdown have done pretty well. There is no right or wrong way in all this. This virus is impossible to escape I"m afraid. If you feel you need to isolate yourself from public, then do so. I am. If you don't fear the virus and think you'll do just fine, it's not my business to stop you.

I have never heard of any country with no lock down. From what I hear, I think Sweden has a limited one. But that isn't the point. All the experts agree that without taking steps to contain the virus, things will be much worse. And there is likely to be a second wave. But as far as president Chump seems to feel, it doesn't matter how many tens of thousands, possibly millions die. He is against any future shutdown.

That's because President Trump understands we can totally put ourselves in a depression if we continue this too long. It's called digging a hole so deep that you can't get out of it yourself.

 

[Andylusion]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

States and countries that had little or no lockdown have done pretty well. There is no right or wrong way in all this. This virus is impossible to escape I"m afraid. If you feel you need to isolate yourself from public, then do so. I am. If you don't fear the virus and think you'll do just fine, it's not my business to stop you.

I have never heard of any country with no lock down. From what I hear, I think Sweden has a limited one. But that isn't the point. All the experts agree that without taking steps to contain the virus, things will be much worse. And there is likely to be a second wave. But as far as president Chump seems to feel, it doesn't matter how many tens of thousands, possibly millions die. He is against any future shutdown.

Extremely limited lock down. Japan too.

Japan right now. Some people are wearing masks, but many are not. Work places still open. Rail lines are still open. Public busses are open.

Though this declaration grants greater authority to Japan's local governments, people will face lighter limits on their activity compared with the far-reaching and restrictive lockdowns imposed in Italy, the U.S. and other countries.​

​

Notice also:

The law does not allow for punishing those who fail to comply.​

Japan is not, or should say, has not, locked down.

Again, none of your end of the world doom predictions happened. You want to hide in your basement, by all means. Go find your termite mound you want to live in.

But the evidence is not on your side in this argument. The US should reopen. End of story.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

 

[Papageorgio]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

You will never crush the plague. It will be with us forever, just like all the viruses before this. So, you want us to all stay home until we die? Is that your plan? I’d like to know what your answer is.

Your defeatism aside, doing a lockdown has caused the number of deaths in NY to decline. Beating the plague isn't easy. But it can be done. And done much better with more financial support from the government. But apparently is is cheaper to force people into the kill zone.

I’m being realistic. We still have the Spanish flu, the Asian flu and the Hong Kong flu, all more deadly than Covid-19, and they are still around. How long do you lockdown? Because now, a month from now, three months, six months, when you reopen, numbers will start growing. Until there is a vaccine, which could be a year or more away, the virus will grow. Countries like New Zealand, if they open their borders, their numbers will grow. Just a fact and the nature of the virus.

So my question to you is how much longer do you want to deny people the right to see relatives and friends? How many more are you will to let get abused in domestic violence cases, how many more suicides are you willing to accept, how much more to you want to wreck an already fragile economy?

How long? Another month, year, 10? How much quality of life do you give up over quantity?

 

[quarantine]

If I had to guess, I would say that our government will probably go for the latter. Which is also helped along by president Chump giving encouragement to the protesters why want to re-open the economy. And there are a lot of people suffering economic hardship. But seeing how there isn't likely to be a second round of stimulus checks, many have no choice but to go back to work. Even if it means risking their lives and spreading the coronavirus even more.

Over 80,000 people have died so far. What is the amount of genocide our country is willing to endure at the altar of capitalism as we know it. For those in power, more than likely any level of slaughter is acceptable to preserve capitalism as it was before the coronavirus.

When you have capitalism, you have jobs. An economic plunge could close down a lot of business which means a lot of jobs lost if and when we are totally safe from the virus. And what happens if there is no way TO wipe out this virus.....what do we do then?

Most all people need a job to support themselves and their families. The government can't support us forever. So it's more than just saving business, saving jobs, it's also saving the country so we don't end up like Greece or Venezuela. And don't think for a minute that can't happen in our country.

Though I wish it was otherwise, what I speak of wouldn't be a forever thing. Just until the plague is crushed. Also, as I said before, bees, ants and termites have societies. And they have no need of money at all. Neither is employment an issue. Surely to some small degree we humans can do a little bit of what some basically brainless bugs can do.

Really? Are you going to grow your own food from now on? Are you going to create heat in your home? Are you going to never go anywhere unless you walk or ride a bike? Are you going to stop taking any and all medications you're on? Are you willing to lose your house or apartment and build a shack in the middle of the woods somewhere?

We are not insects, we are human beings. We are people that survive only because of a modern society, which of course requires money to participate.

What has most people bitching is being able to do business. Farming and food production is just a small part of it. Though it is the most important part. Also, as long as gas and electricity are being produced, heating a house is no problem. Next, as human beings, we should be able to better than bug civilizations. And they don't use money.

Modern society uses money to survive. You can't live without it. Hell, out in the sticks, we have several Amish communities. Many of them have jobs because money is not optional--it's a necessity. Given the fact there is only one way for most to get money, that's what we need to do. Our government is traveling dangerous territory right now. The quicker we get to the point we can no longer spend (and yes, that day is coming) the quicker our country will collapse.

Economically, our country has already collapsed. That is as far as the value of money goes. Because we can never pay back the amount that we owe. Even before the coronavirus, our national debt kept growing and growing. Ever economist I have ever heard speaking about it said that it was unsustainable. Sooner or later, the crash would come. Well let it happen now. Flush the dollar down the toilet, erase our debt and create a new currency. Just like the holy Hitler did with MEFO currency. And give every poor working age adult in the US a $12,000 new dollar stimulus check to see them through the coronavirus quarantine period. Or maybe they should make it a $24,000 check.

Because we can never pay back the amount that we owe.

Who said we had to or should?

Flush the dollar down the toilet, erase our debt and create a new currency.

Pay your bills, deadbeat.

And give every poor working age adult in the US a $12,000 new dollar stimulus check to see them through the coronavirus quarantine period.

Nah.

At one time in France they had a lot of "deadbeats." The French built guillotines to deal with those who treated them as deadbeats. If capitalism can't create the jobs needed for people to sustain themselves, then government should step in and do so. The Chinese did it with building the Great Wall. The Egyptians did it with building the pyramids. Along with many other great public works that various civilizations had created throughout history.

Yeah, and that resulted in devastation for France. You need to remember historically what the result of that ideology was. Thousands on thousands of French were slaughtered in mass executions, which ended up not killing just aristocrats, but everyone. That's why they called it the reign of terror.

And with the destruction of the stable government, institution of mass conscription, civil war, and then the dictatorship of Napoleon, which forced thousands more citizens into fighting wars, and large scale deaths.

And the long term effects of the Revolution, resulted in nearly the entire 1800s in France being nothing but power struggles and assassinations, and political exiles.

It is very clear that utter destruction of France in World War 1, and the subjugation of France in World War 2, can all be traced back to the French revolution.

You pointing to the French revolution as a model to follow, proves you are utterly incompetent on this subject.

BS.

Name one thing, that as not true?

France wasn't devastated. They rose from devastation. Next, for the most part, it was the aristocrats who were euthanized. And their non-aristocrat lackeys. Also, who called it the reign of terror. Not me. Hell, even today they are still trying to paint Hitler as the bad guy in WW II. Next, as far as I ever heard, there was no civil war. At least nothing that came even close to the French Revolution itself. As for mass conscriptions, I doubt if they ever took place. It is always expensive to raise an army. Though France probably had to defend itself from other monarchies. Next, Napoleon did eventually make himself a emperor. That is probably part of the reason why a Frenchman once basically said, "The more that things change, the more they stay the same."

Next, many countries suffered devastation in WW I. And they weren't the French. Next, France wasn't subjugated in WW II. They were defeated. But half of France remained under the French Vichy government. Also, laying the blame for anything that happened in WW I or WW II on the French Revolution is a joke. That was ancient history by then.

 

[quarantine]

Its time to get back to work. The virus is waning if we can keep it going down.
The summer heat is almost here. Lets hope the virus keeps slowing, and slowing, and slowing....
View attachment 336171

From what I have been seeing on the news, many states are reopening even though the cases of coronavirus is still increasing. Also, how many instances of coronavirus in this country did it take to get the whole ball rolling to begin with. 2 or 3?

Then why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
Its going down, with 1,417,350 US cases, how can it go down with so many active cases, not just 1 or 2?

Because of quarantine. With the 2 or 3 who got the whole plague rolling here, there was no quarantine.

Yes there most certainly was a quarantine here, for travelers from China, but not from Europe?!
Quarantine? Not all of the 1.4m are quarantined, so why isn't the pandemic still going out of control in the NYC area?
You did not answer this question: What's a worse condition, 1.4m cases or a few?
We have the 1.4m now and the number of cases is going down, why? How can that be?

President Chump just didn't handle things well. And he still isn't.

Really? So what should he have done? I'll show you why he couldn't or didn't.

Well, president Chump could have started out by not calling the coronavirus a hoax at the beginning.

He didn't call it a hoax, he called what Democrats were trying to do with it another one of their hoaxes. Of course this was before we had any idea how this thing would impact us. But lets say he never made that statement. How would that have changed our current plight?

He called it a hoax. Next, it would have changed our current plight by taking it seriously from the beginning. And there would be over 30,000 fewer dead people.

President Trump is a former businessman, not a former scientist or medical expert. He took the advice from our various health agencies and his medical team to make decisions. Even in late February, Dr. Fauci made a public statement that this virus was nothing of great concern; go out and live life as you always have, and there is no need to use gloves or masks.

When the WHO made a public statement about their concern of this virus in late January, President Trump took action the next day. No, he didn't shutdown the country, but he did take a few precautionary measures, and increased those measures as new information because available, and his team and agencies were able to form a better opinion.

Today the CDC made an announcement that 35% of the Covid cases were with asymptomatic people. That means this virus likely has been with us much longer than we thought. Asymptomatic people have the virus and don't become ill because of it. However they are just as contagious as those that did get ill. That means these people were hugging their friends and family, shaking hands with strangers, drinking at bars and eating at restaurants, squeezing fruit and vegetables at their grocery store.

As for the non-asymptomatic people, the symptoms are similar to a bad cold or early flu, which a lot of people never seek medical attention for.

Therefore your theory about saving 30,000 people is your opinion, not fact.

Saving over 30,000 people with earlier action is what they said on the news last night. But admittedly, you can't always believe the news. For example, they say that Armaud Arbery was murdered. Though like it or not, president Chump started out by calling the whole thing a hoax. And it seems every step of the way, he has been dragging his feet. As for his "experts," they are on his payroll. They will basically say what they're told to say. Including the CDC. Don't believe it? Watch the documentary, "What lies upstream."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We need to just tell whoever we owe interest to to suck it!

If we did that, then who would lend us money in the future?

People shouldn't have to resort to usury to get what money they need. In fact, we shouldn't even be using money. Bees, ants and termites have societies without money. Why can't we. Aren't we better than bugs?

What is this obsession of yours comparing us to insects? Usury is what the Mafia did. Institutions don't practice usury. Usury means illegally.

Insects are creatures created by God to do specific things for our planet. They are like computerized creepy things. They don't have thought, they don't have logic, they don't love, they don't hate, they have no emotions, they don't learn anything. Their actions are driven by nature.

Lions survive by hunting prey with their bare claws. Humans can't do that. Vultures fly around looking for leftover prey to eat. I can't fly without at the very least a hang glider. Even if I could, eating the carcass of a leftover animal would make me violently ill and may even kill me.

We are not insects or animals. We are the highest intelligent being on this planet. A chimpanzee cannot figure out my taxes, as I can't swing from tree to tree effortlessly.