So you are a Army EV tank commander fighting in a foreign country, where do you get the electricity to charge the tank in the midst of a battle?

[kyzr]

Sorry champ I don't trust Faux "Not News" to honestly report any news, and on the off chance that she really thinks a battery powered 55 ton war machine will perform as well as the supercharged engine it has now, I don't believe it.

I stand corrected. They exist.....

No they don't. Once again you fail reading comprehension. The electric motor doesn't do shit. From your link

"The hybrid concept draws on two motors, one diesel, the other electric, with the latter used to power electronic systems on board, with the diesel engine switched off while the tank is static."

 

[kyzr]

Really? Then how does the empty tank get filled?
Bring another fuel tank?
How do you suppose you'd recharge a battery in the field?
With another battery?
The unwillingness to stretch your mind even a little is unsurprising.

How does your empty car gas tank get filled moron?

How old are you, six?

You have no clue how things really work.

 

[Kruska]

A Abrams tank uses about a 2 gallons of fuel to go over 1 mile at Maximum Speed of 42 mph and a range: 265 mi.
M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank - Specifications.

So if an EV uses in 1 mile .25/kWh = a car traveling 33.705 Miles for one gallon of gas... then an EV to equal traveling 33 miles X.25 kWh would require 132 kWh.

Miles per Kilowatt-Hour to Miles per Gallon Gasoline Equivalent Conversion

Convert miles per kilowatt-hour to miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (mi/kWh to MPGe) with the electric car efficiency conversion calculator, and learn the formula.

www.inchcalculator.com

So to travel the 265 miles range of an Abrams tank would require the equivalent of 133 kWh X 265 miles or 8,745 kWh.
A 100 kWh battery pack in the Model S weighs 1,377 pounds How Much Does a Tesla Battery Weigh?
An Abrams tank using 8,745 kWh to travel 265 miles (8,745kWh/85kWh) or another 60 tons to the weight.
M1 Abrams Tank - First Division Museum

You had stated that already - but the Abrams X, is a hybrid concept towards which your calculation doesn't apply. It further won't apply if in 10-20 years hydrogen might me the main source of energy. The initial "green" request was made towards the entire US military vehicle fleet - not just singling out a MBT, which is designed to make the whole thing look ridiculous and questionable.

The point of concern to me is not the factual building of EV or Hybrid vehicles, or even aircraft and ships (electric and hybrid subs is nothing uncommon) - but the enormous amount of money needed to replace the existing fuel supply line. This starts off with supply ships to pipelines running through every country in order to ensure that military logistic hubs can be supplied, right down to the fuel truck. No one in the USA bothered about the initial gas driven turbine of the Abrams - that made it due to supply-issues - a very expensive weapon system (plus other setbacks) and was therefore rejected by all other Western Tank manufacturers.

The other main issue of concern to me is the cyber-warfare reality, it isn't easy to sabotage or to cripple the existing power - fuel infrastructure, but it will be far easier to pinpoint 2-3 battery plants producing maybe 70% of battery-packs in e.g. the USA.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Untrue. One example is Napoleonic warfare strategy.

That strategy worked great in Russia. Without a secure supply line no Army will last very long.

 

[Moonglow]

That strategy worked great in Russia. Without a secure supply line no Army will last very long.

That is why Napoleon used the early form of blitzkrieg.

 

[Moonglow]

You had stated that already - but the Abrams X, is a hybrid concept towards which your calculation doesn't apply. It further won't apply if in 10-20 years hydrogen might me the main source of energy. The initial "green" request was made towards the entire US military vehicle fleet - not just singling out a MBT, which is designed to make the whole thing look ridiculous and questionable.

The point of concern to me is not the factual building of EV or Hybrid vehicles, or even aircraft and ships (electric and hybrid subs is nothing uncommon) - but the enormous amount of money needed to replace the existing fuel supply line. This starts off with supply ships to pipelines running through every country in order to ensure that military logistic hubs can be supplied, right down to the fuel truck. No one in the USA bothered about the initial gas driven turbine of the Abrams - that made it due to supply-issues - a very expensive weapon system (plus other setbacks) and was therefore rejected by all other Western Tank manufacturers.

The other main issue of concern to me is the cyber-warfare reality, it isn't easy to sabotage or to cripple the existing power - fuel infrastructure, but it will be far easier to pinpoint 2-3 battery plants producing maybe 70% of battery-packs in e.g. the USA.

Yes, the Energy Policy Act of 2005 did exactly that for the military using a strategy of oil being scarce and the military creating alternative forms of energy to continue.

 

[healthmyths]

You had stated that already - but the Abrams X, is a hybrid concept towards which your calculation doesn't apply. It further won't apply if in 10-20 years hydrogen might me the main source of energy. The initial "green" request was made towards the entire US military vehicle fleet - not just singling out a MBT, which is designed to make the whole thing look ridiculous and questionable.

The point of concern to me is not the factual building of EV or Hybrid vehicles, or even aircraft and ships (electric and hybrid subs is nothing uncommon) - but the enormous amount of money needed to replace the existing fuel supply line. This starts off with supply ships to pipelines running through every country in order to ensure that military logistic hubs can be supplied, right down to the fuel truck. No one in the USA bothered about the initial gas driven turbine of the Abrams - that made it due to supply-issues - a very expensive weapon system (plus other setbacks) and was therefore rejected by all other Western Tank manufacturers.

The other main issue of concern to me is the cyber-warfare reality, it isn't easy to sabotage or to cripple the existing power - fuel infrastructure, but it will be far easier to pinpoint 2-3 battery plants producing maybe 70% of battery-packs in e.g. the USA.

You are right about the example of the Abrams tank being speculative.

But the Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm received blowback from critics this week after she testified before the Senate in support of a plan to fully establish an all-electric vehicle fleet in the U.S. military by the 2030s, leading some observers to wonder if the Biden administration believes politics trumps national security.

Granholm's call for 100% EV military puts 'electric tanks,' green agenda before national security: critics

President Biden's energy secretary, Michigan Democrat Jennifer Granholm, wants to see a fully-electric military by the year 2030, causing controversy among critics.

www.foxnews.com

The Abrams development started in the 196j0s...
The first attempt to replace the M60 Patton was the MBT-70, developed in partnership with West Germany in the 1960s and reaching the testing stage by 1968. The MBT-70 was very ambitious, and had various innovative ideas that ultimately proved unsuccessful. As a result of the imminent failure of this project, the U.S. Army introduced the XM803. This succeeded only in producing an expensive system with capabilities similar to the M60.
3,273 M1 Abrams were produced 1979-85 and first entered US Army service in 1980,

History of the M1 Abrams - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So about 20 years from conception to production.

But in the case of an EV Abrams tank the idea of replacing empty the Abrams' batteries with fresh batteries has been suggested since the re-charging station process will depend on a Transmission Grid like any country now using electricity would have to have.
A 100 kWh battery pack in the Model S weighs 1,377 pounds How Much Does a Tesla Battery Weigh?
A Abrams EV tank will need batteries to hold 8,745 kWh to travel 265 miles (8,745kWh/85kWh)
At 1,377 pounds for a 100 kWh battery pack will require the Abrams EV tank to carry 87 batteries at 1,377lbs per each battery would weigh 60 tons!
An Abrams tank currently weighs about 55 tons. M1 Abrams Tank - First Division Museum.
The Abrams Tank's gasoline fueled engine weighs 1,134 kg or 2,500 lbs.

 

[Kruska]

You are right about the example of the Abrams tank being speculative.

But the Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm received blowback from critics this week after she testified before the Senate in support of a plan to fully establish an all-electric vehicle fleet in the U.S. military by the 2030s, leading some observers to wonder if the Biden administration believes politics trumps national security.

Granholm's call for 100% EV military puts 'electric tanks,' green agenda before national security: critics

President Biden's energy secretary, Michigan Democrat Jennifer Granholm, wants to see a fully-electric military by the year 2030, causing controversy among critics.

www.foxnews.com

The Abrams development started in the 196j0s...
The first attempt to replace the M60 Patton was the MBT-70, developed in partnership with West Germany in the 1960s and reaching the testing stage by 1968. The MBT-70 was very ambitious, and had various innovative ideas that ultimately proved unsuccessful. As a result of the imminent failure of this project, the U.S. Army introduced the XM803. This succeeded only in producing an expensive system with capabilities similar to the M60.
3,273 M1 Abrams were produced 1979-85 and first entered US Army service in 1980,

History of the M1 Abrams - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So about 20 years from conception to production.

But in the case of an EV Abrams tank the idea of replacing empty the Abrams' batteries with fresh batteries has been suggested since the re-charging station process will depend on a Transmission Grid like any country now using electricity would have to have.
A 100 kWh battery pack in the Model S weighs 1,377 pounds How Much Does a Tesla Battery Weigh?
A Abrams EV tank will need batteries to hold 8,745 kWh to travel 265 miles (8,745kWh/85kWh)
At 1,377 pounds for a 100 kWh battery pack will require the Abrams EV tank to carry 87 batteries at 1,377lbs per each battery would weigh 60 tons!
An Abrams tank currently weighs about 55 tons. M1 Abrams Tank - First Division Museum.
The Abrams Tank's gasoline fueled engine weighs 1,134 kg or 2,500 lbs.

As I stated before - to me the idea of an all EV MBT with the present available technology isn't feasible. Therefore IMO it will not happen - however a Hybrid is feasible and a fully EV capable MBT powered by Hydrogen would be feasible as well. BTW a present generation Abrams weights above 70 tons.

 

[kyzr]

EV military vehicles is MORONIC and ASININE, so says veteran senator Joni Ernst and several military experts.

Biden Energy Secretary Wants Military to Adopt All-EV Fleet by 2030

Jennifer Granholm testified that she supported requiring the United States military to move to an all-electric non-vehicle fleet by 2030.

www.breitbart.com

Ernst has been a staunch critic of the Biden administration’s push for electric vehicles, which she says require lithium and cobalt, which are often mined and processed with slave labor in China or child labor in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Last year, Ernst — a combat veteran and retired Iowa National Guard colonel — succeeded in including a provision in the 2023 National Defense Authorization Act prohibiting electric vehicle component sourcing from any entity that uses child or slave labor. The provision also requires a report detailing the costs associated with replacing the Department of Defense’s 170,000 non-tactical vehicles with electric ones, the costs of the required infrastructure to support doing so, as well as current and projected sourcing shortfalls. On Tuesday, she tweeted, “President Biden’s new EV rule is not only unsustainable and unaffordable, it makes us more reliant on foreign adversaries and their immoral force labor practices.”

President Biden’s new EV rule is not only unsustainable and unaffordable, it makes us more reliant on foreign adversaries and their immoral forced labor practices. https://t.co/3V4KuTmyzd
— Joni Ernst (@SenJoniErnst) April 25, 2023

Granholm’s testimony stirred pushback on social media.

A retired Army colonel tweeted:

.@SecGranholm knows zero about battlefield realities. There’s zero chance of our military forces being able to field an all EV fleet in a mere 7 years. More importantly such an effort would make the military almost completely dependent on China for its source of fuel.

.@SecGranholm knows zero about battlefield realities. There’s zero chance of our military forces being able to field an all EV fleet in a mere 7 years. More importantly such an effort would make the military almost completely dependent on China for its source of fuel.
— James Hutton (@JEHutton) April 26, 2023

A retired Air Force officer tweeted:

Asinine. As a former military member and Pentagon officer, this is what you get when you have political appointees appointed into these [senior civil service] positions – someone brain dead in charge of things but they are only in the position because they/family donated; fill a DEI quota; or related to a politician.

Asinine.
As a former military member and Pentagon officer, this is what you get when you have political appointees appointed into these SCS positions – someone brain dead in charge of things but they are only in the position because they/family donated; fill a DEI quota; or…
— JW (@C130GuyBNA) April 26, 2023

 

[healthmyths]

As I stated before - to me the idea of an all EV MBT with the present available technology isn't feasible. Therefore IMO it will not happen - however a Hybrid is feasible and a fully EV capable MBT powered by Hydrogen would be feasible as well. BTW a present generation Abrams weights above 70 tons.

NO PROOF of your statements... what is your source regarding Abrams' weight?
MY source:
An Abrams tank currently weighs about 55 tons. M1 Abrams Tank - First Division Museum.

The Abrams Tank's gasoline fueled engine weighs 1,134 kg or 2,500 lbs.

Turbine powered M1 Abrams shows many features of gas turbines

Why should I believe you as you offer NO substantiation of your statements.

 

[healthmyths]

It's too bad you could use what little attention span you have to think before turning those stubby fingers loose.

Did I say those things exist right now?
50 years ago the computing power on my desk would have required 5k SF of floor space, a water cooling system, and 5-10 people to keep running.
15 years ago EVs were getting 40 miles per charge. Now we're getting 600 miles with smaller batteries.

I know you MAGA types want to live in the past but do try to be a little less stupid about it.

So you like Granholm think a new generation of EV Abram tanks will be ALL developed, produced and ready for action by 2030?
More importantly... where do you think the EVs' battery rechargers get their electricity? It magically appears in the re-charger that the EV plugs into?
Hmmm... my stubby fingers wonder if you realize that in a battlefield there won't be Electric Transmission grids connected to electric generating plants.
So where will they get the electricity?
Stubby fingers want to know if A 3 foot by 5 foot solar panel generates (now here DUMMY I deal with facts... stupid comments...)
with five hours of direct sunlight each day, your equation would look like this: five hours x 250 watts = 1,250 watt-hours or about 1.3 kilowatt-hours daily.

https://www.gotrhythm.com/blog/solar-energy/how-much-power-does-a-solar-panel-produce

Hmmm so how many re-charging trucks with a 3x5 solar panel generating 1.3 kWh/day /panel and with each panel needing 15 square feet.
Well a standard flatbed trailer is 48 feet long and 8.5 feet wide, providing more than 400 square feet of surface to support a load.

HM... 400 square feet divided by 15 square per panel would be 26 solar panels each generating 1.3 kWh or a total of 34 kWh.
So 34 kWh divided by 2 kWh to go 1 mile, would mean the Flatbed semi-truck with 26 solar panels would be able to travel 17 miles BUT will have exhausted
the 34 kWh created by the 26 solar panels... leaving nothing to charge a SINGLE Abrams tank that will require 33 kWh to travel 1 mile!
Hmmm... stubby fingers has presented an analysis that provides some questions that have yet to be answered!
And of course the flat bed truck is an EV ...But it also uses according these experts:
The Class 8 entry is estimated to charge up to 70% level in 30 minutes and consumes less than 2 kWh per mile

Tesla preps for first Semi deliveries as it breaks into Class 8 market

Tesla (TSLA) will hold an event on December 1 at the Gigafactory in Nevada to commemorate the first deliveries of the all-electric Semi Class 8 truck. Read more.

seekingalpha.com

So the EV re-charging truck using the electricity IT's solar panels created would be able to travel in day day before using up it's own stored in solar panel batteries
the 34 kWh generated by the panels!
Stubby fingers wants YOU to explain ...
how a EV Semi-truck traveling 17 miles and consuming the 34 kWh it's 26 solar panels created will be able to charge the Abrams EV?

 

[Nostra]

Granholm's call for 100% EV military puts 'electric tanks,' green agenda before national security: critics​

Granholm's call for 100% EV military puts 'electric tanks,' green agenda before national security: critics

President Biden's energy secretary, Michigan Democrat Jennifer Granholm, wants to see a fully-electric military by the year 2030, causing controversy among critics.

www.foxnews.com

I saw her comments about tanks being EVs
Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm received blowback from critics this week after she testified before the Senate in support of a plan to fully establish an all-electric vehicle fleet in the U.S. military by the 2030s, leading some observers to wonder if the Biden administration believes politics trumps national security.
An Abrams tank uses about a 2 gallons of fuel to go over 1 mile at Maximum Speed: 42 mph with a Range: 265 mi.
M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank - Specifications.
So if an EV uses 1 mi/kWh = a car traveling 33.705 Miles for one gallon of gas... then an EV to equal traveling 33 miles /gallon
would require 33 kWh.

Miles per Kilowatt-Hour to Miles per Gallon Gasoline Equivalent Conversion

Convert miles per kilowatt-hour to miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (mi/kWh to MPGe) with the electric car efficiency conversion calculator, and learn the formula.

www.inchcalculator.com

So to travel the 265 miles range of an Abrams tank would require the equivalent of 33 kWh X 265 miles or 8,745 kWh.
A 100 kWh battery pack in the Model S weighs 1,377 pounds How Much Does a Tesla Battery Weigh?
An Abrams tank using 8,745 kWh to travel 265 miles (8,745kWh/85kWh) or another 60 tons to the weight.
M1 Abrams Tank - First Division Museum
So not only would the over 6,000 Abrams takes now weigh an additional 60 tons for the 87 batteries to the U.S. Army is believed to have 2,509 Abrams in various versions, with an additional 3,700 in storage.

The History Of The Abrams Tank

The Biden administration has announced it will send 31 M1 Abrams battle tanks to Ukraine in what Kyiv authorities are hailing as a possible game-changer in a war that is now 11 months old. RFE/RL takes a quick look at the Abrams's history and its specs.

www.rferl.org

But each tank would use 8,745 kWh per tank to travel 265 miles per tank.
Where will the 52,470,000 kWh come from especially in a winter season when EVs have trouble traveling in the cold?

OR where will the military's 170,000 non-tactical vehicles — the cars and trucks we use on our bases, get the electricity?

U.S. Military Wants Its Vehicles to Go Electric — With Detroit’s Help

U.S. Military Wants Its Vehicles to Go Electric — With Detroit’s Help

www.nationaldefensemagazine.org

Remember electricity is NOT made by the re-chargers. Electricity is generated by solar panels (each 3'ftX5'Ft panel generates
Most residential solar panels on today’s market are rated to produce between 250 and 400 watts each per hour or in a sunny day

How much energy do solar panels produce for your home | YES Energy Solutions

More people are beginning to see the numerous benefits solar panels can bring, both environmentally and financially. Learn exactly how much electricity solar panels could generate for your household.

www.yesenergysolutions.co.uk

With an average of 3348 hours of sunlight per year one panel at 400 watts/hour will generate 1,339 kWh.

AGAIN where will all the electricity come from to power military EVs especially in foreign countries? And how will that electricity get to the
re-chargers? OH... yea right... fossil fuel converted into gasoline power generators. RIGHT!!!

Battery powered B-52s are just around the corner.

 

[Nostra]

Granholm was born in Canada.

Will they take her back?

 

[MAGA Macho Man]

Will they take her back?

I'm sure Trudeau would love to have her.

 

[Dadoalex]

How does your empty car gas tank get filled moron?

How old are you, six?

You have no clue how things really work.

I drive to the gas station or get a can of gas
Any more stupid questions monkey boy?

 

[Dadoalex]

So you like Granholm think a new generation of EV Abram tanks will be ALL developed, produced and ready for action by 2030?
...

Start your response woth a bald faced lie and the remainder is unworthy of reading, much less a response.

 

[healthmyths]

Start your response woth a bald faced lie and the remainder is unworthy of reading, much less a response.

Start your response woth a bald faced lie and the remainder is unworthy of reading, much less a response.

So where is the LIE in this first sentence?
I wrote: "So you like Granholm think a new generation of EV Abram tanks will be ALL developed, produced and ready for action by 2030?"

Where is the lie? The first word..."SO" is most often interpreted by smarter people evidently than you as a SUPPOSITION...i.e. I guess I should have wrote..."So it is my supposition that you like ....."
Where is the lie? Now this would be a LIE... "Dadoalex agrees with Granholm that a new generations..." but I didn't write that!
I never said you THINK what Granholm thinks...... I said "So you like Granholm," ? Wow!

 

[AZrailwhale]

No they are not. Subway and electric commuter trains aren’t powered by diesel engines.

They are still powered by electricity produced by fossil fuel generators or, at best, Hydro power.

 

[AZrailwhale]

We will build fields of solar panels all over the enemies territory. We just have to preemptively build them behind enemy lines so they are available to us once we take that territory. We charge up there, then push forward to the next solar panel field that we built inside the enemies territory. Seems doable if you ask me.

Hey, Combat Engineers are good, but we aren't THAT good.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Couldn’t they put a solar panel on the tank?

A single solar cell produces between 20 and 30 amp hours in a full day. Charging the batteries to sun a seventy ton tank would take hundreds of standard panels.