So NOW what? What changes with the Chauvin verdict?

[InspectorDetector]

So, you are pulled over for whatever reason and you choose to get into a shouting and screaming and wrestling match with folks who have guns

Doesn’t give cops the right to kill people who are handcuffed

Do we have a wide spread problem of handcuffed people being killed by police?

The fact of the matter is when you pose yourself a threat to cops you might get killed. If you don’t 99.9999999999% of the time you won’t. But keep parroting a divisive and false narrative

In an overwhelming majority of cases where cops claim they felt threatened or endangered they are given a pass.

Hard to claim you felt threatened by a handcuffed suspect on the ground and not resisting. Videos made it clear

You don't (obviously) get it. I worked a case at Fort Knox back in like 1974 - the assailant was a black woman. She was handcuffed and being led to the squad car. She actually BROKE the handcuffs and took off running. Had it not been for a quick thinking MP - she would have escaped.

Life is NOT a TV show skippy. You want to hang your hat on ONE case. OK - so how do you explain the cop that had to shoot the 16 year old BLACK teenage girl to keep her from stabbing the other BLACK girl she was attacking? Riots? "Peaceful demonstrations"? I'll tell you right here and now - had I been that Officer, I would have let her stab (and possibly kill) the other girl. It's just too damned dangerous for the POLICE out there now. It's getting to the point where the Officers are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I find it hard to believe that many of them haven't turned in their shields and walked away already. I'm fairly certain that there is no more morale..

Damned shame what we, as a country, are becoming.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

And now for some reality...

Post civil rights in the 1960s, race relations in America was on a steady, continual improvement. There is no argument to that.
On every single measuring factor - attitudes, relationships (friends and romance) have improved between the races, in the work place etc.
It continued to get better every year. I seen it with my own eyes, and so has everyone else old enough to have witnessed it.
That is, until Obama became President. There is no argument that his choices, as well as his wife's comments... created a strain. He showed his true colors when his crony buddy professor was arrested - and he immediately, without knowing a single fact, threw the race card out and even called the officers involved "stupid".
Oops. Then he had to apologize and have the infamous "beer-gate" to try distract from the fact he showed blatant preference.
This was a harbinger of things to come. As Michelle publicly made many statements that created a rift in the improved relations between the races.
Forgetting that Obama was elected by a large measure. Including of course millions of white people. Many Republican whites.
Obama had a golden opportunity to improve relations even more. But he and the first lady chose a different path.

And then there is the media and the entertainment industry. Consistently shoving microphones and cameras into the faces of the race baiters. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson... both having absolutely ZERO credibility. And exactly the wrong kind of leader blacks needed. The exact opposite.

Today race relations are, in my opinion, about what they were in the 1980s. We went backwards by at least 30 years.
There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

 

[Mac1958]

There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

The other guys. Those guys. Over there. We're all victims on "my" side.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

The other guys. Those guys. Over there. We're all victims on "my" side.

I didn't speak sides.
You did.
If you can't agree that Obama and Michelle was problematic for race relations, then you are simply blind.
As for the media... they ALL shoved mics in front of race baiters, including Fox and Rightwing talk radio.
YOU make that a "side".

 

[bendog]

Two thoughts on it: First, I suspect we'll see some changes in the rules of policing, and that would include training and accountability. There seems to be enough momentum for this to happen, but I don't know that it's going to definitely going to improve anything.

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

There will be a lot more of fed overlooking what LEAs do. In the case of Minny, that might be good, because from what I've read the cop union has managed to avoid any local govt oversite. But generally I don't see the positive, although I think cops may want to avoid kneeling on the necks of handcuffed people they've already put on the ground in gutters. And that's a good thing.

But like Ferguson showed, sometimes nothing shows a cop really did anything wrong. At best the evidence is murky. But what you have is an entire force and even a local govt that does not reflect a community that is in a socio econ transition.

Blacks will be disproportionately be stopped compared to their overall numbers. But when there's black on black crime, guess who will scream the loudest that the cops didn't do their job.

Imo the best we can hope for is cops not shooting suspects in the back as they run away. Or tasering them as they sit in their car with both hands on the steering wheel asking why the cop stopped them. But I've seen cops mace a handcuffed guy who wouldn't stop spitting on them. The guy was not in his right mind, but I couldn't blame the cops. I mean what's the option? Shoot him with some kind of tranquilizer? Sure, then he has a heart attack or something, and cops are really screwed. Maybe if enough cities have to pay judgments and enough cops get put in jail, cops will use better judgment. Of course some cops may get crucified too.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

And by the way.... the media today is a MAJOR contributor to declining race relations.
For jumping on the BLM bandwagon, for downplaying rioting/looting/burning private property.
For not covering scene after scene after scene of BLM activist harassing white diners/passerby's for NO reason other than they were white.
They should have been showing this, and speaking out against it.... but instead... were only interested in showing support for the protest.
This of course is causing bad attitudes. How could it not??
And today... when an officer shot a 15 year old girl actively attacking another 15 year old trying to stab her with a butcher knife.... what happened??
BLM activist start protesting, and out comes politicians.
So now blacks are supposed never be policed???
So the officer should have just stood there and watched the girl murder the other girl - while her boyfriend was stomping on another girls head??
That is just supposed to be ok???
The media portrays that.

 

[bendog]

I can't argue with this.
Tim Scott hopes to reintroduce version of GOP police reform bill with Democratic support (yahoo.com)

 

[iamwhatiseem]

As well as countless other videos just like it... there is a video where recently a man refused to show identity, communicate other than say he was not going to cooperate, and refused to get out of his car. OBVIUOSLY this caused suspicion among officers present.
After trying for 10 minutes to talk to this guy, who would not budge... an officer smashed his passenger window, introduced a 100lb German Shepherd who immediately attacked the man who was then dragged out of his car. He had substantial injuries to his arm.
He was white.
If he was black.... you would have seen this video on the news everywhere. But you didn't, and won't.
You have to ask why. And be honest with the answer.

 

[easyt65]

Remember when the goal was to eliminate racism by getting past / being able to see beyond a person's skin color?

Now it's ALL about skin color....

'BLACK Lives Matter'...

When was that exactly? And what were your efforts towards that goal?

When?
About a decade ago.

My contribution?
I live my life without color, treating everyone as my Lord teaches me to...how the racebaitets and divisionists claimed was their goal before attempting to rend the nation asunder in order to collapse the nation in on itself.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

When?
About a decade ago.

My contribution?
I live my life without color, treating everyone as my Lord teaches me to...how the racebaitets and divisionists claimed was their goal before attempting to rend the nation asunder in order to collapse the nation in on itself.

Very good answer.
I am the same. I have absolutely not a shred of racism towards blacks. I do not, in any way, believe they are less intelligent, capable - whatever as whites. I 100% want REAL equality. Every single American citizen treated the same.
JUST LIKE 99.99% of all other white conservatives. We only desire fairness for all.

But this past couple years is making it hard to hold onto positive feelings. The race baiting, the implied racism just because I am white.
The ludicrous white privilege, the ignoring of blatant problems within inner city black culture... the excusing, ignoring and blaming whites for everything is beyond old. Not to mention the virtue signaling by white liberals, and total ignoring of black/black murders and even dozens of innocent black children killed every year by gunfire.

It is requiring real effort to not give in.
WHich is exactly what liberals want.

 

[Mac1958]

Two thoughts on it: First, I suspect we'll see some changes in the rules of policing, and that would include training and accountability. There seems to be enough momentum for this to happen, but I don't know that it's going to definitely going to improve anything.

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

There will be a lot more of fed overlooking what LEAs do. In the case of Minny, that might be good, because from what I've read the cop union has managed to avoid any local govt oversite. But generally I don't see the positive, although I think cops may want to avoid kneeling on the necks of handcuffed people they've already put on the ground in gutters. And that's a good thing.

But like Ferguson showed, sometimes nothing shows a cop really did anything wrong. At best the evidence is murky. But what you have is an entire force and even a local govt that does not reflect a community that is in a socio econ transition.

Blacks will be disproportionately be stopped compared to their overall numbers. But when there's black on black crime, guess who will scream the loudest that the cops didn't do their job.

Imo the best we can hope for is cops not shooting suspects in the back as they run away. Or tasering them as they sit in their car with both hands on the steering wheel asking why the cop stopped them. But I've seen cops mace a handcuffed guy who wouldn't stop spitting on them. The guy was not in his right mind, but I couldn't blame the cops. I mean what's the option? Shoot him with some kind of tranquilizer? Sure, then he has a heart attack or something, and cops are really screwed. Maybe if enough cities have to pay judgments and enough cops get put in jail, cops will use better judgment. Of course some cops may get crucified too.

I've just taken a couple of things away from this whole thing, aside from what I said in the OP -- that we're still not looking at the big picture.

First, having cops at various levels testify against another cop was BIG. Lot of potential ramifications down the road. Second, one systemic tweak that could be made is either the elimination or modification of qualified immunity for cops. Given the way we are in this country, I wouldn't be surprised to see it just summarily removed, but that could be going too far. We have to think this through, and unfortunately, that's no longer a strong suit of ours.

We still have to address the big issue, race relations, but that won't happen unless or until both ends of this are willing to honestly look in the mirror. Not in my lifetime, probably.

 

[Oldestyle]

Two thoughts on it: First, I suspect we'll see some changes in the rules of policing, and that would include training and accountability. There seems to be enough momentum for this to happen, but I don't know that it's going to definitely going to improve anything.

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

Training ain't it.

They've been training and training and training and training, for decades on decades now and it hasn't done a damn thing, the brutality has only gotten worse.

The thing that will stop these racist bastards in their tracks is punishment.

1. They get convicted and do hard time to life for these offenses.
2. Have their money taken away. (aka they're able to get the pants sued off of them)

After that happens to about 3 or 4 of them in a row, the rest will miraculously whip themselves into shape.

WTF are you talking about, you utter mope.
240 people have been killed by cops in 2021 and only 30 of them are blacks.
If you were genuinely concerned about police injustice you would be demanding that a murder charge in the case of Tony Timpa, or the Navy veteran who died in February. Both died from cops kneeling on their necks, but were not black, so nobody gave a fuck.

Some of us are hoping this WILL affect excessive force by police in all cases, not just black guys. Don't tell me that every cop in this country won't think of Derek Chauvin the next time they consider that hold, because they will. Because of the color of their skin, BLM took this up, but I wouldn't want a bastard like Chauvin on my local police force either. It's pretty sick that the cops in the Timpa case all walked with no repercussions. 4 are still on the force! I pulled up an article on it that said in light of the George Floyd case, Texas is considering getting rid of that law that protects cops from liability in such cases.

So maybe there is some awareness growing that excessive force is not okay.

You're going to have cops that are afraid to do their jobs now, Old Lady because they now know that they'll be second guessed by the liberal media and run the very real risk of being sent to jail. They won't get out of their cruisers now because every cop in this country WILL be thinking of Derek Chauvin and knowing that they're one call away from having their lives ruined! You think this is going to be a good thing for Policing in the inner city and you're woefully naive! This verdict is a death knell to proactive Policing. What you're going to get now is a Police force that shows up to toe tag the bodies.

The exact same thing was predicted after the Ferguson riots and I don't see that the police have left us to a Mad Max existence yet.

You might want to Google "Ferguson Effect" to see what's been taking place since the Ferguson riots, Old Lady! Because Police are making fewer and fewer stops...gun crime is soaring in most US cities.

 

[PatriotJohn888]

We still have to address the big issue, race relations, but that won't happen unless or until both ends of this are willing to honestly look in the mirror. Not in my lifetime, probably.

This is such a complicated issue. It's certainly not comfortable to talk about given the wild I doubt than anything will ever be solved here at USMB. With that said, everyone has to take that honest look in the mirror. We are all talking about police reform, but there is no conversation about reform of the public. In almost all of these situations where people are upset that a cop killed someone, the common denominator is almost always a large measure of bad behavior, lawlessness and general disregard for the public interest.

Why is it that we are seeing higher crime rates or continuing crime rates even? It is because there are no deterrents for crime anymore. Or the ones that do exist are so lightweight, the risks don't outweigh the reward. Why are all these black folks resisting arrest? Why do they think its a good idea to fight with police? In short, people are being taught this behavior. Who is teaching this? Look this isnt a blacks only issue, but we are where we are right now.

When can we have the conversation about the percentage of black children born to no father? When can we talk about the black family unit and how it affects the success of black children?

 

[themirrorthief]

Two thoughts on it: First, I suspect we'll see some changes in the rules of policing, and that would include training and accountability. There seems to be enough momentum for this to happen, but I don't know that it's going to definitely going to improve anything.

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

Training ain't it.

They've been training and training and training and training, for decades on decades now and it hasn't done a damn thing, the brutality has only gotten worse.

The thing that will stop these racist bastards in their tracks is punishment.

1. They get convicted and do hard time to life for these offenses.
2. Have their money taken away. (aka they're able to get the pants sued off of them)

After that happens to about 3 or 4 of them in a row, the rest will miraculously whip themselves into shape.

98 percent of blacks murdered are killed by other blacks...simple fact

 

[petro]

The left doesn't really want an honest talk about race.
They would rather lecture, demonize and shame all viewpoints that don't reinforce their Critical Race Theory.
The conversation is a one way street into a dead end.

 

[Mac1958]

We still have to address the big issue, race relations, but that won't happen unless or until both ends of this are willing to honestly look in the mirror. Not in my lifetime, probably.

This is such a complicated issue. It's certainly not comfortable to talk about given the wild I doubt than anything will ever be solved here at USMB. With that said, everyone has to take that honest look in the mirror. We are all talking about police reform, but there is no conversation about reform of the public. In almost all of these situations where people are upset that a cop killed someone, the common denominator is almost always a large measure of bad behavior, lawlessness and general disregard for the public interest.

Why is it that we are seeing higher crime rates or continuing crime rates even? It is because there are no deterrents for crime anymore. Or the ones that do exist are so lightweight, the risks don't outweigh the reward. Why are all these black folks resisting arrest? Why do they think its a good idea to fight with police? In short, people are being taught this behavior. Who is teaching this? Look this isnt a blacks only issue, but we are where we are right now.

When can we have the conversation about the percentage of black children born to no father? When can we talk about the black family unit and how it affects the success of black children?

I agree. 99.9% of the conversation is about the victimization of blacks. There is virtually no conversation about the issues you bring up, OR, even closer to current events, the fact that most of these deaths are taking place when the black person is committing a crime and/or resisting arrest. That is a BLATANT and OBVIOUS disregard for the big picture, the whole story.

On one hand, that absolutely does not mean that what is being discussed is not true. But at the same time, we're choosing to ignore (and we're therefore indirectly enabling) the negative, counter-productive and destructive behaviors of that segment of the population. Political Correctness has seen to it that you'll be labeled a racist simply for bringing it up.

I say it all the time: Both ends of this argument need to stop pointing the finger and start looking in the mirror. We need to clean our OWN house. Unless and until that happens, we're not going to make true progress. All we're doing right now, both sides, is antagonizing the other and making things worse. Both sides are just feeding into the other's rage.

 

[surada]

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

And now for some reality...

Post civil rights in the 1960s, race relations in America was on a steady, continual improvement. There is no argument to that.
On every single measuring factor - attitudes, relationships (friends and romance) have improved between the races, in the work place etc.
It continued to get better every year. I seen it with my own eyes, and so has everyone else old enough to have witnessed it.
That is, until Obama became President. There is no argument that his choices, as well as his wife's comments... created a strain. He showed his true colors when his crony buddy professor was arrested - and he immediately, without knowing a single fact, threw the race card out and even called the officers involved "stupid".
Oops. Then he had to apologize and have the infamous "beer-gate" to try distract from the fact he showed blatant preference.
This was a harbinger of things to come. As Michelle publicly made many statements that created a rift in the improved relations between the races.
Forgetting that Obama was elected by a large measure. Including of course millions of white people. Many Republican whites.
Obama had a golden opportunity to improve relations even more. But he and the first lady chose a different path.

And then there is the media and the entertainment industry. Consistently shoving microphones and cameras into the faces of the race baiters. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson... both having absolutely ZERO credibility. And exactly the wrong kind of leader blacks needed. The exact opposite.

Today race relations are, in my opinion, about what they were in the 1980s. We went backwards by at least 30 years.
There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

It was stupid.. I had it happen to me. I locked myself out in my nightgown and had to climb up the drainpipe to a small balconey. The cops didn't give me any grief.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It's pretty simple....

The liberal social policies from the 1950s - 1980s, whereby they took blacks... relocated them, and packed them in like sardines in public housing, away from jobs and themselves of course - is what built the modern inner city black culture. It created a permanent dependent culture.
I don't care what color people are, if you give them essentially free housing, free food and cash welfare payments to "make them go away" - which is what the fuck happened - you are setting those people up for failure.
Until the left can even BEGIN to admit these policies created the inner city black population that is what we all talk about. High crime, poorly educated, amoral culture and the destruction of the family unit.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

And now for some reality...

Post civil rights in the 1960s, race relations in America was on a steady, continual improvement. There is no argument to that.
On every single measuring factor - attitudes, relationships (friends and romance) have improved between the races, in the work place etc.
It continued to get better every year. I seen it with my own eyes, and so has everyone else old enough to have witnessed it.
That is, until Obama became President. There is no argument that his choices, as well as his wife's comments... created a strain. He showed his true colors when his crony buddy professor was arrested - and he immediately, without knowing a single fact, threw the race card out and even called the officers involved "stupid".
Oops. Then he had to apologize and have the infamous "beer-gate" to try distract from the fact he showed blatant preference.
This was a harbinger of things to come. As Michelle publicly made many statements that created a rift in the improved relations between the races.
Forgetting that Obama was elected by a large measure. Including of course millions of white people. Many Republican whites.
Obama had a golden opportunity to improve relations even more. But he and the first lady chose a different path.

And then there is the media and the entertainment industry. Consistently shoving microphones and cameras into the faces of the race baiters. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson... both having absolutely ZERO credibility. And exactly the wrong kind of leader blacks needed. The exact opposite.

Today race relations are, in my opinion, about what they were in the 1980s. We went backwards by at least 30 years.
There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

It was stupid.. I had it happen to me. I locked myself out in my nightgown and had to climb up the drainpipe to a small balconey. The cops didn't give me any grief.

I locked myself out in my nightgown and had to climb up the drainpipe to a small balconey.

It must be difficult to climb in a full burka.

 

[surada]

Second, we're still light years from having "an honest conversation on race" in this country, so this process is going to be rough, loud, divided and ugly. Seems to me that we have to make advances on race relations -- the big picture -- before anything positive sticks.

And now for some reality...

Post civil rights in the 1960s, race relations in America was on a steady, continual improvement. There is no argument to that.
On every single measuring factor - attitudes, relationships (friends and romance) have improved between the races, in the work place etc.
It continued to get better every year. I seen it with my own eyes, and so has everyone else old enough to have witnessed it.
That is, until Obama became President. There is no argument that his choices, as well as his wife's comments... created a strain. He showed his true colors when his crony buddy professor was arrested - and he immediately, without knowing a single fact, threw the race card out and even called the officers involved "stupid".
Oops. Then he had to apologize and have the infamous "beer-gate" to try distract from the fact he showed blatant preference.
This was a harbinger of things to come. As Michelle publicly made many statements that created a rift in the improved relations between the races.
Forgetting that Obama was elected by a large measure. Including of course millions of white people. Many Republican whites.
Obama had a golden opportunity to improve relations even more. But he and the first lady chose a different path.

And then there is the media and the entertainment industry. Consistently shoving microphones and cameras into the faces of the race baiters. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson... both having absolutely ZERO credibility. And exactly the wrong kind of leader blacks needed. The exact opposite.

Today race relations are, in my opinion, about what they were in the 1980s. We went backwards by at least 30 years.
There will be no "honest conversation" until we can admit/understand who and what caused the slide.

It was stupid.. I had it happen to me. I locked myself out in my nightgown and had to climb up the drainpipe to a small balconey. The cops didn't give me any grief.

I locked myself out in my nightgown and had to climb up the drainpipe to a small balconey.

It must be difficult to climb in a full burka.

At Wild Dunes?