Smoking Bans

[Luddly Neddite]

You own a Business and pay Big Brother his tribute, you decide whether you'll allow smoking or not. Big Brother got his cut, so he can mind his business and piss off. Let him run along and go grope American kids and Grandmas at airports.

What has been banned?

You have stated that things have been banned. You've said it over and over.

WHAT has been banned?

 

[paulitician]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

 

[dblack]

Do you? Really? So should people have the right to work in an office where smoking is allowed? Eat in a restaurant where smoking is allowed?

Sure, but smokers are now a minority. If the majority vote to ban smoking in the workplace and restaurants, there is no longer a question.

Smokers are free to smoke where others are not breathing.

And no one has the right to force me to smoke at my work or public places.

That's what I thought. You don't agree, at all, that people should be allowed to decide or themselves how much risk is acceptable. You want to decide for them. What you mean by - "I absolutely agree that people should have that choice and that they do not have the right to decide that for others." - is exactly the opposite: that people should decide for others and that individuals shouldn't have that choice. Are all your convictions this inside-out?

I have the right to "how much risk is acceptable" for myself.

Breathing in second hand smoke is not an acceptable risk I choose to take and I will leave if someone is smoking.

Smoke where its legal. Whine if you want but the majority have voted to make it illegal in shared places.

Not whining. Just pointing out the lie at the core of your position. You're decidedly not in favor of the freedom to choose for ourselves. You think the majority should decide what is good for all of us, and then that standard should be mandated on everyone.

Well yeah ... I DO live in the United States, you know.

We vote here and yes, majority rules.

Choose whatever you want for yourself but you're not going to be allowed to choose for everyone else.

Quit whining and go outside for a cigarette.

I'll quit "whining" when you quit lying through your teeth. Choosing for everyone else is EXACTLY what you want government to do. If some people want to choose something else, you want so them brought in line by force. You're not even being honest with yourself until you admit that.

 

[Pogo]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

 

[paulitician]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

Yeah, cuz then something might not get banned, right?

 

[Pogo]

I have the right to "how much risk is acceptable" for myself.

Breathing in second hand smoke is not an acceptable risk I choose to take and I will leave if someone is smoking.

Smoke where its legal. Whine if you want but the majority have voted to make it illegal in shared places.

Not whining. Just pointing out the lie at the core of your position. You're decidedly not in favor of the freedom to choose for ourselves. You think the majority should decide what is good for all of us, and then that standard should be mandated on everyone.

Dude, you're in absolutely no position to be lying about that until you address post 625 with something more tangible than

 

[paulitician]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

Yeah, cuz then something might not get banned, right?

Just wait till the next Terrorist attack in this country. Your Message Board days could be over. Why risk allowing the free-flow of ideas and opinions? Banning them all-together would be the 'safest' route, no? So enjoy your Freedom, it might not last much longer.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Sure, but smokers are now a minority. If the majority vote to ban smoking in the workplace and restaurants, there is no longer a question.

Smokers are free to smoke where others are not breathing.

And no one has the right to force me to smoke at my work or public places.

That's what I thought. You don't agree, at all, that people should be allowed to decide or themselves how much risk is acceptable. You want to decide for them. What you mean by - "I absolutely agree that people should have that choice and that they do not have the right to decide that for others." - is exactly the opposite: that people should decide for others and that individuals shouldn't have that choice. Are all your convictions this inside-out?

I have the right to "how much risk is acceptable" for myself.

Breathing in second hand smoke is not an acceptable risk I choose to take and I will leave if someone is smoking.

Smoke where its legal. Whine if you want but the majority have voted to make it illegal in shared places.

Not whining. Just pointing out the lie at the core of your position. You're decidedly not in favor of the freedom to choose for ourselves. You think the majority should decide what is good for all of us, and then that standard should be mandated on everyone.

Well yeah ... I DO live in the United States, you know.

We vote here and yes, majority rules.

Choose whatever you want for yourself but you're not going to be allowed to choose for everyone else.

Quit whining and go outside for a cigarette.

I'll quit "whining" when you quit lying through your teeth. Choosing for everyone else is EXACTLY what you want government to do. If some people want to choose something else, you want so them brought in line by force. You're not even being honest with yourself until you admit that.

You're as bad as @paulitician. You come up with your own version of the facts and then twist and turn to make it fit. You do the same in the ObamaCare threads. IOW, you lie.

Choose whatever you want and I'll do the same. If you choose to defy a law, that's your decision.

If you don't like the law, vote to change it. If you're voted down (or as you called it, "force"), the majority has spoken.

 

[Pogo]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

Oh really. Well fortunately incredulousness hasn't been banned...

So you would have the Big Brother Nanny State BAN murder? Because people are too stupid to stay away from it themselves?

Oh the shame. Oh the horror. Oh the hypocrisy.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

Yeah, cuz then something might not get banned, right?

Just wait till the next Terrorist attack in this country. Your Message Board days could be over. Why risk allowing the free-flow of ideas and opinions? Banning them all-together would be the 'safest' route, no? So enjoy your Freedom, it might not last much longer.

IOW, you lied because you're a scared little, low info squirt.

 

[Pop23]

Maybe not, but they can ensure that public spaces are safe

Yes, but there is no agreement on what constitutes "safe". You want your definition to be mandated on everyone else-------------thats the point here.

I hate smoking, do not smoke, do not want to be around smokers. But I do not want to take away their right to shorten their lives if they choose to do so.

Yes there is agreement

Second hand smoke is not safe. The government is within its rights to ban behavior which is presents a danger to others

Second hand smoke can irritate and cause others conditions, i.e., asthma to worsen.

so do what any intelligent person does, stay away from smokers.

So do what any logical argument does -- explain how it's the victim's responsibility to do that, while the perp gets off scot free.

-- Which party is the actor here and which the reactor?
Think about it.
Take your time...


Here's a clue-hint: the act of smoking where others are present is not an individual act. It's a collective.

Aye, there's the rub.

The act of walking through a door that says "smoking allowed" makes the patron the actor

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I absolutely agree that people should have that choice and that they do not have the right to decide that for others.

Do you? Really? So should people have the right to work in an office where smoking is allowed? Eat in a restaurant where smoking is allowed?

Sure, but smokers are now a minority. If the majority vote to ban smoking in the workplace and restaurants, there is no longer a question.

Smokers are free to smoke where others are not breathing.

And no one has the right to force me to smoke at my work or public places.

That's what I thought. You don't agree, at all, that people should be allowed to decide or themselves how much risk is acceptable. You want to decide for them. What you mean by - "I absolutely agree that people should have that choice and that they do not have the right to decide that for others." - is exactly the opposite: that people should decide for others and that individuals shouldn't have that choice. Are all your convictions this inside-out?

When a smoker lights up in a room with other people, he/she IS deciding for everybody else.
Don't you get that??

I missed this post.

Its spot on but don't expect him to actually address it.

 

[paulitician]

The 'Ban Anything or Anyone we disagree with' crowd are just cowardly Sheeple. They use Government as their weapon to force their agendas on others. It's all about intimidation and force. Sadly, Big Government Totalitarians are running the show now. If you don't go along, you'll be forced to.

Americans are not nearly as free as they've been told they are. I see a day when Message Boards like this will be considered 'Treasonous.' And don't laugh, it's not as far-fetched as you may believe. One more big 9/11-style Terrorist attack in this country, and Big Brother will seize absolute power for good. So stay tuned.

So tell us Randbot---

Scenario: you get your own country. You get to set your own laws. So you don't have any, since you're so sure that human beings, left to their own devices, will always take personal responsibility and never ever think of anything like, oh, murder, assault, rape, grand theft, breaking and entering, or fraud. So you set up your country, free of all those pesky legal constraints.

Ten minutes later when the first murder or rape or bad check or a simple pickpocket at your celebration of FreeForAllistan happens ---- who you gonna call?


File under: department of thinking things through....

Well that's a bit extreme, don't ya think? No one is pushing for Anarchy.

Yeah, cuz then something might not get banned, right?

Just wait till the next Terrorist attack in this country. Your Message Board days could be over. Why risk allowing the free-flow of ideas and opinions? Banning them all-together would be the 'safest' route, no? So enjoy your Freedom, it might not last much longer.

IOW, you lied because you're a scared little, low info squirt.

The sky is falling. You're just too dumbed-down to realize it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You own a Business and pay Big Brother his tribute, you decide whether you'll allow smoking or not. Big Brother got his cut, so he can mind his business and piss off. Let him run along and go grope American kids and Grandmas at airports.

Why shouldn't the owner of a business not be allowed to kill their employees? I mean, you take the risk, you got to work, then one day the owner has a gun and shoots you in the head. Your problem, the govt should not lock this man up, right?

 

[paulitician]

You own a Business and pay Big Brother his tribute, you decide whether you'll allow smoking or not. Big Brother got his cut, so he can mind his business and piss off. Let him run along and go grope American kids and Grandmas at airports.

Why shouldn't the owner of a business not be allowed to kill their employees? I mean, you take the risk, you got to work, then one day the owner has a gun and shoots you in the head. Your problem, the govt should not lock this man up, right?

Don't work there or frequent that particular Business. Problem solved. No need to ban anything or anyone.

 

[Pop23]

Now that's funny!

I'll change part of your post just a bit

"Disregarding the known health risks imposed by exposure to Radon"

This isn't about health now, is it?

Now if I knew what you were talking about I might be able to respond!

Hushhhhhhh, the nannies don't want you to link non smokers lung cancer to anything but second hand smoke. The EPA says that radon accounts for 7 times more such cancers than second hand smoke.

Radon is the number one cause of lung cancer among non-smokers, according to EPA estimates. Overall, radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer. Radon is responsible for about 21,000 lung cancer deaths every year. About 2,900 of these deaths occur among people who have never smoked. On January 13, 2005, Dr. Richard H. Carmona, the U.S. Surgeon General, issued a national health advisory on radon. Read a study by Dr. William Field on radon-related lung cancer in women atwww.cheec.uiowa.edu/misc/radon.html

And the funny part was, radon gas is RADIOACTIVE

 

[frigidweirdo]

Don't work there or frequent that particular Business. Problem solved. No need to ban anything or anyone.

But it's never that simple is it? I've had to work in smoky environments. It was a choice of that or not working.

So.... how do I survive without money?

Should I go rob and kill people instead?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Second hand smoke can irritate and cause others conditions, i.e., asthma to worsen.

so do what any intelligent person does, stay away from smokers.

So do what any logical argument does -- explain how it's the victim's responsibility to do that, and how the perp gets off scot free.

"victim" "perp" so you want smoking to be a crime?

Voters have made it a crime in certain places.

Yeah, so what? should it be a crime everywhere? how did that work out for alcohol?

Its not a "crime everywhere".

Alcohol was outlawed. Smoking is not.

WHY can't you RWs EVER just stick to facts?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Hushhhhhhh, the nannies don't want you to link non smokers lung cancer to anything but second hand smoke. The EPA says that radon accounts for 7 times more such cancers than second hand smoke.

Radon is the number one cause of lung cancer among non-smokers, according to EPA estimates. Overall, radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer. Radon is responsible for about 21,000 lung cancer deaths every year. About 2,900 of these deaths occur among people who have never smoked. On January 13, 2005, Dr. Richard H. Carmona, the U.S. Surgeon General, issued a national health advisory on radon. Read a study by Dr. William Field on radon-related lung cancer in women atwww.cheec.uiowa.edu/misc/radon.html

And the funny part was, radon gas is RADIOACTIVE

Okay, so what's your point?

Is your point that second hand smoke doesn't kill people? Doesn't seem to be.

You know people get hit by cars and killed. Does that mean we should allow people to smoke where they like because, well, not everyone dies from second hand smoke?

I really don't see an argument, just a presentation of facts in an attempt to side step the topic.